The Middle East part 2

[EiZei 0]

//Edit

The Iraq transport ministerium have today declared that they do not wish any financial help from Denmark or Norway to rebuild their country. That will really help them.

I am sure that Hamas will also take such a bold step and stop accepting EU support since they are threatening one (or two?) of it's member states:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1702769,00.html

Quote[/b] ]

.. The Hamas leader, Dr Mahmoud Zahar, told the Italian daily Il Giornale that the cartoons were an offence that should be punished by death. ..

[Wilco 944]

@Garcia:  I don't know if you realised it, but this is much bigger than just not accepting money.  Denmark (Seeing that this cartoon originated from here) really pissed off every Muslim out there.  I wouldn't be surprised if Denmark saw a few violent and deadly reactions to this, which they already have.  Be prepared.  It's looking like another Paris riot.

But then again....

[harley 3 1185 0]

Maybe it's a dangerous question, but what's the ratio of Muslims to Christians/Atheists in Denmark?

[EiZei 0]

Maybe it's a dangerous question, but what's the ratio of Muslims to Christians/Atheists in Denmark?

CIA world factbook says 2% muslims. You really can't say about atheists since us nordics are infamous for being habitual christians.

[Balschoiw 0]

The issue turns out to be a lot more complex as we all think right now.

The cartoon case was infact abused by religious fanatics to fuel the anti-western sentiments even more. Even fake cartoons were spread by danish muslims that were never published anywhere in europe.

The tricky deal about the money is that right now the money we give to those countries grants us some method of interference. As long as we give money we can, to a certain extend, control or influence things there. If we are not able to give money to those countries the muslim league will increase thei money flow. Be it from Saudi Arabia, Jordania, iran or other wealthier muslim countries. By these steps the radicals will even gain more momentum and influence. The best example is the Hamas. They built schools, give money to the poor and try to improve life for the palestinians with a greater goal. They want to unite them under the Quran and the Sharia to gain strenght and to recruit even more fellow followers. This concept has worked for them as the latest elections show. So if there is no money from the west to improve life conditions there will be no chance for any interference with what´s happening there. Money is a tool. If we loose that tool, religious fanatics will happily jump in and donate cash to install their own fanatic regime.

This is why those subjects have to be handled very cautios. For a believing muslim it´s one of the greatest sins to picture Mohammed. Especially in regions where fundamentalists define a lot of the daily life and people have no or just limited access to independant news or where a large percentage of people still can´t read they can direct people just as they want. This is why Iran with it´s hardline leader and the fundamental religious leader try to play big boy right now. They want to take over the lead of the muslim world in the middle east and are on the best way to achieve that goal. The current speculations that Iran may have the bomb in about 6 months is realistic. Obviously they are running secret nuclear labs as latest satellite images and trades show (no faked powerpoint presentation this time).

Everyone had his eyes on Iraq, while Iran worked on it´s rude boy position.

The cartoon incident shows us all one thing we need to be very aware of: It does not take much to stir up a fireball across the middle east, a fireball that will be taken to europe if the reason is sufficient.

Let´s wait a few days until the news about the cartoons spread in Afghanistan. The taleban recruiters will have a fine time again.

I´m not saying that freedom of speech should be limited but there is a responsibility of papers or politicians or any medias. A responsibility that should make you think twice before you picture Mohammed as a suicide bomber. We live in countries where religions mix up like flies. The countries are as well formed by those people as they are by us so the basic line should be to respect each others faith and don´t give any of those radicals the chance to exploit such easy shots as the cartoons about Mohammed were.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

The leaders of the Islam communities here in Denmark are now leaving to the Middleeast to calm them down, and try to tell them the trueth.

I wonder if we have to send people with them to verify that thats what they are really doing?

Last time, Laban said two totally opposit things depending what TV-station that interviewed him :/

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ]@Garcia: I don't know if you realised it, but this is much bigger than just not accepting money. Denmark (Seeing that this cartoon originated from here) really pissed off every Muslim out there. I wouldn't be surprised if Denmark saw a few violent and deadly reactions to this, which they already have. Be prepared. It's looking like another Paris riot.

Yes I do, and I understand that not accepting any money from Norway or Denmark is more of a symbol than actually trying to hurt us (since not being allowed to give away money wouldn't hurt anyone). I just find it amusing...it's a funny thought, imagining the muslims in Iraq thinking they've got a good hit on us

[denoir 0]

This is bound to have some very interesting foreign policy consequences. Europe has been to representative of what we might call "soft" western policy in the Middle East as opposed to the American "hard" western policy. Generally Europe has had better relations with the various Arab regimes than America and has often had the role of a mediator. This might change now. In addition Europe has been for some time now the primary source of income for the Palestinians. This again is done within the framework of corporation with Arab countries.

In this controversy America has clearly distanced itself from the European position. So, Europe is on its own. Ultimately the Muslim countries that have allowed the demonstrations and the riots are biting the hand that feeds them.

As for Europe, these riots are quite helpful for the European unity. While this may be a bit cynical, this is the best thing that has happened to the EU since the Americans started bombing Iraq. Nothing quite like a foreign foe to rally people around a common cause.

Of course, the ones that will be screwed most are the Muslims in Europe at whose expense this all is happening.

The riots in Syria were clearly allowed to happen by the regime there. Syria is a police state and nothing of the sort could have happened without the approval of the security services. Their reasons for allowing the demonstrations are based in domestic policy and have de facto nothing to do with the cartoons. It is just the way for them to redirect frustrations of the religious fundamentalists away from the government and to an external enemy. This is however very shortsighted of them and they will probably lose much more by ruining the relationship with Europe than what they have to gain domestically with the riots.

Lebanon of course is the most critical point. Here, the consequences can be outright nasty if the Christian and Muslim factions start fighting again. Hopefully it will not come to that.

[Bordoy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yes I do, and I understand that not accepting any money from Norway or Denmark is more of a symbol than actually trying to hurt us (since not being allowed to give away money wouldn't hurt anyone).

I'm a giver not a taker

Have you actually seen the numbers of people protesting? Are these all muslim stooges employed by the British government? And are Britain and America paying people to burn down embassies in the middle East?

I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next man, but this just goes too far - actually making up your own little story, because your arguments don't add up.

Even the most hysterical of liberals will surely admit that the people rioting in the middle East are not some MI6 stooges, so how is not too hard to comprehend that muslims here are genuinely protesting?

[chops 111]

What a bunch of sooks (crybabies)! If they're so upset over some pictures, draw one of Jesus being raped by a camel, see how many people in the Western world think somebody drawing a picture gives them the right to burn down buildings. It seems these protests are far more violent than the few that took place against the Iraq invasion.

Morons.

[Garcia 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yes I do, and I understand that not accepting any money from Norway or Denmark is more of a symbol than actually trying to hurt us (since not being allowed to give away money wouldn't hurt anyone).

I'm a giver not a taker  

Well, it doesn't make you a taker if you're not allowed to give

Muslims trying to calm things down try to say that the ppl protesting ain't muslims, but that's a bit far to go IMO. They're probally all muslims, but (hopefuly) these guys are just assholes trying to create problems (a bit like hooligans), and some that think they have to protest since "everybody" else is The majority of the muslim ppl didn't (hopefuly) care that much about the cartoons that they do go out to protest.

Quote[/b] ]Have you actually seen the numbers of people protesting? Are these all muslim stooges employed by the British government? And are Britain and America paying people to burn down embassies in the middle East?

I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next man, but this just goes too far - actually making up your own little story, because your arguments don't add up.

Even the most hysterical of liberals will surely admit that the people rioting in the middle East are not some MI6 stooges, so how is not too hard to comprehend that muslims here are genuinely protesting?

I don't see how the brits or US would gain anything from creating these problems, so yes, it's going a bit far I think USA and britain will be the main target for terrorism, and if this shit keeps on going, then the amount of terrorism will increase, and I would think they would still be mostly against american and british targets (The terrorists will probally have problems finding Norway on the map anyway...they'll end up in sweden thinking "wtf, this is probaly Norway", and then bomb the swedes )

[Garcia 0]

What a bunch of sooks (crybabies)! If they're so upset over some pictures, draw one of Jesus being raped by a camel, see how many people in the Western world think somebody drawing a picture gives them the right to burn down buildings. It seems these protests are far more violent than the few that took place against the Iraq invasion.

Morons.

Muslims can't make drawings...it's forbidden by their religion. I'm quite sure that means they can't make a drawing of anything...not a sheep, not a man and not jesus...

[ozanzac 0]

In other news.....

New candidate nominated for a Darwin award.

Quote[/b] ]EMBASSY TORCHED

Source:Sky News Australia

Lebanon's interior minister has stepped down after riots in Beirut climaxed with the burning of the Danish Embassy. Hassan al-Sabaa submitted his resignation after an emergency cabinet meeting, as a crowd of more than 20,000 destroyed the embassy. Danes have been urged not to travel to Lebanon, following the latest spate of violent protests in reaction to a cartoon depicting the Islamic prophet Mohammed as a terrorist. Denmark has also urged its citizens to leave the country. One protestor was killed as he became encircled by flames and jumped from the third floor of the building and more than 60 protestors were arrested. Meanwhile, the Islamic Army has threatened to seek revenge on the European countries where the offensive cartoon was published. The Iraqi group says Denmark, France, the Netherlands, Norway and Spain will be targetted.

What some will call a martyr, I'll call an idiot.

[Badgerboy 0]

Well as Denior pointed out earlier, the hyteria is once again taking people lives

Afghan Shot Dead

Is it possible to have a rally without firearms?

[shadow 6]

Afghan Shot Dead

Quote[/b] ]"They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers," he said.

Okay, we believe you now. You are not extremists.

[SPQR 0]

Muslims can't make drawings...it's forbidden by their religion. I'm quite sure that means they can't make a drawing of anything...not a sheep, not a man and not jesus...

False

This morning, on the radio, a French satyrical drawer was telling a rather odd story. He went in Iran, visiting local drawers. He saw a draw presenting Jesus with a cellular phone, speaking, and next an iranian telling him not to speak so loudly as they were currently praying...

Arab Art Gallery

And they are rather skilled

[LennyD 0]

Muslims can't make drawings...it's forbidden by their religion. I'm quite sure that means they can't make a drawing of anything...not a sheep, not a man and not jesus...

Nope....->

Quote[/b] ]"In October 2005 the Union of Islamic Students Associations and Iran's House of Cartoons jointly sponsored a global competition on caricature, painting and graphic design under the main theme of "A World without Zionism." Students between the ages of 7 and 18 were invited to submit their art works to the organizing committee of the competition. The competition also focused on the themes "A World without America," "A Mirage Named Zionism," "The Wishes of a Palestinian Student," and "The Intifada.

(taken from www.globalsecurity.org)

I've found my own way of protesting against this terror and to support the freedom of speach....like my avartar? That's non violent protest, something a lot of people have to learn. It's my opinion! ...or am i getting burned now or maybe my head cut off with a knife?...NO simpathy for these people what so ever.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

lets make a collection of our flags burning in Teheran

I am not sure whether I should happy or angry about it, I mean bad PR is always good PR! Well I guess in the end I just feel indifferent about it!

If your flag doesnt get burned in the middle East then you are nothing !

[mp_phonix 0]

listen PPL, im from Israel, so i know whats going on:

the palastinians want back their land as you know, righ t?

guess what, its never gonna happen. israel is not going to give up the 67' borders back, especially not the JERUSALEM. the palastinians what the 67 borders, that means jerusalem and the enire area is going to be theirs. and Israel does evacuate setelmants, watch the news ! 3 dayus ago they evacuated one, i hope u saw what the setlers did to the soldiers, they threw rocks/paint/acid on them. 1 Police officer was criticlly injured. because u dont live here its quait hard to understand. some of u say that israel should stop striking Hamas. well jentelman, i can say that USA/Nato/World countrysshould stop striking Al-quida.

terror is the same.

about the security here. let me ask u, in your countries, is there and Armed Guard in every entrance to Mcdonalds/Mall/Train stations/Bus Station (big stations not stops)/School/Public places patrolled by MAGAV soldiers (israel border guard). well do ya ? i dont think so !

i livei n Ashkelon , which u may have heard started to be striked near it with KASAM missles. im not botherd by it really, the only thing im waiting for is to join the IDF into the 900 CT brigade.

in generally, Middle east peace is possible but is very hard to obtain. why ? mostly because the muslems nations (I DONT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINT MUSLEMS) have a tirant leader (like hitler,stalin) wich is leading RELIGIONAL regime, means the women can go outside without mask and so on.

I, as an israeli, i believe peace is possible, and i want it, but it cannot happend when the phalastinian goverment lead by terrorist organization, come on, its like Iraq lead by Al-quiada !

------------------------------

roadblocks.

some of u may think/saw that the IDF soldiers are trieating bad to palastinians who want to cros. they do that for a reason:

every week someone trys to stab a soldier on the roadblocks. SOme one i knew (Sodlier) was stabbed in his throut by palastinian).every week theres about 3 terrorist bombings who dont are prevented(explosive charges who were transited captured in ROADBLOCKS and so).

and thing. for example. if there wont be a bombings, the security is tight, but less agressive i the roadblocks. some say that israel are treating like nazis. if we were, we woul;d wipe-out gaza and all ofg those palastinians (not that i want that i want peace, peace is allways better). some say that israeli are shooting palastinians for fun. want the RULES OF ENGAGMENT ? HERE YOU GO :

Situation : someone approaches roadblock/outpost looks sespicous

1. shout stop in hebrew

2. shout stop in arabic

3. shout stop or i will fire in hebrew/arabic

4. i dont know how its in english, but pull the "trigger" that enters the bullet into the firing chamber

5. shoot in the air

6. shoot int the leg

7. if the subject is bnot stoping shoot in the chest (not to kill).

so pepole are just saying sh*t.

again,

PEACE IS POSSIBLE, BUT NOT THROUGH TERROR ACTS !  

[vektorboson 8]

lets make a collection of our flags burning in Teheran  

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,575448,00.jpg

I am not sure whether I should happy or angry about it, I mean bad PR is always good PR! Well I guess in the end I just feel indifferent about it!

 

If your flag doesnt get burned in the middle East then you are nothing !

The problem with us Germans is: The average German doesn't care if the German flag is burning, well, because he just doesn't care ("missing patriotism").

The nationalist German doesn't care too, because it's the wrong German flag that is burning  

[Ironsight 1]

One protestor was killed as he became encircled by flames and jumped from the third floor of the building

0wn3d

Quote[/b] ]If your flag doesnt get burned in the middle East then you are nothing !

Damn straight! Allthough I haven't seen the Dutch flag buring yet. I always thought we were the uber-infidels of Europe

[mp_phonix 0]

listen PPL, im from Israel, so i know whats going on:

the palastinians want back their land as you know, righ t?

guess what, its never gonna happen. israel is not going to give up the 67' borders back, especially not the JERUSALEM. the palastinians what the 67 borders, that means jerusalem and the enire area is going to be theirs. and Israel does evacuate setelmants, watch the news ! 3 dayus ago they evacuated one, i hope u saw what the setlers did to the soldiers, they threw rocks/paint/acid on them. 1 Police officer was criticlly injured. because u dont live here its quait hard to understand. some of u say that israel should stop striking Hamas. well jentelman, i can say that USA/Nato/World countrysshould stop striking Al-quida.

terror is the same.

about the security here. let me ask u, in your countries, is there and Armed Guard in every entrance to Mcdonalds/Mall/Train stations/Bus Station (big stations not stops)/School/Public places patrolled by MAGAV soldiers (israel border guard). well do ya ? i dont think so !

i livei n Ashkelon , which u may have heard started to be striked near it with KASAM missles. im not botherd by it really, the only thing im waiting for is to join the IDF into the 900 CT brigade.

in generally, Middle east peace is possible but is very hard to obtain. why ? mostly because the muslems nations (I DONT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINT MUSLEMS) have a tirant leader (like hitler,stalin) wich is leading RELIGIONAL regime, means the women can go outside without mask and so on.

I, as an israeli, i believe peace is possible, and i want it, but it cannot happend when the phalastinian goverment lead by terrorist organization, come on, its like Iraq lead by Al-quiada !

------------------------------

roadblocks.

some of u may think/saw that the IDF soldiers are trieating bad to palastinians who want to cros. they do that for a reason:

every week someone trys to stab a soldier on the roadblocks. SOme one i knew (Sodlier) was stabbed in his throut by palastinian).every week theres about 3 terrorist bombings who dont are prevented(explosive charges who were transited captured in ROADBLOCKS and so).

and thing. for example. if there wont be a bombings, the security is tight, but less agressive i the roadblocks. some say that israel are treating like nazis. if we were, we woul;d wipe-out gaza and all ofg those palastinians (not that i want that i want peace, peace is allways better). some say that israeli are shooting palastinians for fun. want the RULES OF ENGAGMENT ? HERE YOU GO :

Situation : someone approaches roadblock/outpost looks sespicous

1. shout stop in hebrew

2. shout stop in arabic

3. shout stop or i will fire in hebrew/arabic

4. i dont know how its in english, but pull the "trigger" that enters the bullet into the firing chamber

5. shoot in the air

6. shoot int the leg

7. if the subject is bnot stoping shoot in the chest (not to kill).

so pepole are just saying sh*t.

again,

PEACE IS POSSIBLE, BUT NOT THROUGH TERROR ACTS !

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]listen PPL, im from Israel, so i know whats going on:

some people may say that you are still pretty young and there are still some essential books you will have to read before claiming that

others may say that you, as an israeli, are routine blinded and that you lack a certain distance to judge issues objectively!

but dont worry, thats normal here on this board, we all treat ourselves like that

Anyhow, welcome aboard

@ vektorboson: You are definetly not so wrong about it and I had to smile about your comment with "the wrong flag". I believe germans dont see the flag as the symbol of patriotism, thats all. "You burn our flag! boooooring

[mp_phonix 0]

Quote[/b] ]listen PPL, im from Israel, so i know whats going on:

some people may say that you are still pretty young and there are still some essential books you will have to read before claiming that

others may say that you, as an israeli, are routine blinded and that you lack a certain distance to judge issues objectively!

Anyhow, welcome aboard

im not judging anyone. im just telling you about the situation here,

still, im live here, not you

and what books excatly should i read ?

and tnx

[LennyD 0]

I believe germans dont see the flag as the symbol of patriotism, thats all. "You burn our flag! boooooring

Jep...who cares. Let them burn flags as they wish...couldn't care less if they burned them self.

I bet you could make millions with all sorts of flags down there...they don't even know what they burn..."hey, this one has a cross on it..it's danemarks" and of the go to burn the red cross sacks the meal was in

Read s.t. in a nother forum:

Quote[/b] ]It's not just a cartoon. It's a cartoon against Islam! I fully support the Muslims' call to behead those who think Islam is a violent religion! Allah Akbar!

...so beheading isn't voilent in his opinion?....let's do some beheading to him then...*Vollhonk*