The Middle East part 2

[bn880 5]

Israel should be paranoid if it continues on this path of destruction, otherwise, Canada has to worry about the States. Actually we are, and we're getting ready for you.

[Acecombat 0]

Oh please hellfish the Gap is widening everyday we move further , try and compare IAF with RSAF ? We have F-15/E's they got F-15/I's we asked for F-16's got crap in return because america feared we might bring Pakistani pilots here , and they might use stuff from it to hand it to china and help in production of that FC-1 plane they are making jointly.

Our armed forces are severly degraded versions too while Israel gets all the latest gadgetry without a question and is even helped by funding its military projects.I wouldnt be surprised to know if the US has installed tracking devices on our equipment even to find out our places and point them to Israel.

Besides our govt sucks up the US a$$ , they always go and beg their whenever they wanna upgrade but fail to see that our forces are so hopelessly dependant on their supplies that if US wants it can ground every thing we own to defend ourself , very aggressive are we now huh?  

Thats why i dont agree buying western equipment , since its practically controlled by US and becomes obsolete junk if we try and use it on our own accord since the US is bound to side with israel as they always do    ... inother words we are nothing .....

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Israel should be paranoid if it continues on this path of destruction, otherwise, Canada has to worry about the States.    Actually we are, and we're getting ready for you.  

Yes, and we appreciate all the infrastructure improvements- they always make the actual annexation process go so much smoother.

[EiZei 0]

Well, there is a history of everyone trying kill overrun Israel. In 1973, the IDF was still probably one of the best militaries in the world and even then they almost lost. The technology and quality gap between the Arab and Israeli armed forces has, if anything, narrowed in the past few decades.

I think Israel has a legitimate reason to be paranoid of their neighbors, but I do not think that paranoia justifies violence.

1973 is different from now.

[Schoeler 0]

Oh please hellfish the Gap is widening everyday we move further , try and compare IAF with RSAF ? We have F-15/E's they got F-15/I's we asked for F-16's got crap in return because america feared we might bring Pakistani pilots here , and they might use stuff from it to hand it to china and help in production of that FC-1 plane they are making jointly.

Our armed forces are severly degraded versions too while Israel gets all the latest gadgetry without a question and is even helped by funding its military projects.I wouldnt be surprised to know if the US has installed tracking devices on our equipment even to find out our places and point them to Israel.

Besides our govt sucks up the US a$$ , they always go and beg their whenever they wanna upgrade but fail to see that our forces are so hopelessly dependant on their supplies that if US wants it can ground every thing we own to defend ourself , very aggressive are we now huh?  

Thats why i dont agree buying western equipment , since its practically controlled by US and becomes obsolete junk if we try and use it on our own accord since the US is bound to side with israel as they always do    ... inother words we are nothing .....

Technology doesn't mean crap if you don't have enough strategic buffer space to stop or stall an armored invasion. Saudi Arabia has lots of open desert between it and any potential enemy to employ that technology and stall an enemy advance long enough for it and its allies to get their act together and respond. Israel does not have that luxury. All that technology can make it costly for anyone to take them on, but it can't keep them form losing a war.

You people should really study these things more before posting.

Oh, and as far as paranoia about invasion goes, I think the Isrealis are justified considereing how many time their enemies have attempted it. Is this a bit like the paranoia Europe felt about Russian armored divisions and motorized rifle brigades rolling across the West German countryside? Was that being overly paranoid?

[joltan 0]

Is this a bit like the paranoia Europe felt about Russian armored divisions and motorized rifle brigades rolling across the West German countryside? Was that being overly paranoid?

Actually many of us were more paranoid about the US nuking the place, than about the russians occupying it.

[ralphwiggum 6]

The neighbouring Arab states have militaries that are as good fighters as Boris Jeltsin is a good tap dancer*

<snip>

(* not very good, I presume)

just to remind people. please be civil.

[Acecombat 0]

Oh please hellfish the Gap is widening everyday we move further , try and compare IAF with RSAF ? We have F-15/E's they got F-15/I's we asked for F-16's got crap in return because america feared we might bring Pakistani pilots here , and they might use stuff from it to hand it to china and help in production of that FC-1 plane they are making jointly.

Our armed forces are severly degraded versions too while Israel gets all the latest gadgetry without a question and is even helped by funding its military projects.I wouldnt be surprised to know if the US has installed tracking devices on our equipment even to find out our places and point them to Israel.

Besides our govt sucks up the US a$$ , they always go and beg their whenever they wanna upgrade but fail to see that our forces are so hopelessly dependant on their supplies that if US wants it can ground every thing we own to defend ourself , very aggressive are we now huh?  

Thats why i dont agree buying western equipment , since its practically controlled by US and becomes obsolete junk if we try and use it on our own accord since the US is bound to side with israel as they always do    ... inother words we are nothing .....

Technology doesn't mean crap if you don't have enough strategic buffer space to stop or stall an armored invasion.  Saudi Arabia has lots of open desert between it and any potential enemy to employ that technology and stall an enemy advance long enough for it and its allies to get their act together and respond.  Israel does not have that luxury.  All that technology can make it costly for anyone to take them on, but it can't keep them form losing a war.  

You people should really study these things more before posting.

Oh, and as far as paranoia about invasion goes, I think the Isrealis are justified considereing how many time their enemies have attempted it.  Is this a bit like the paranoia Europe felt about Russian armored divisions and motorized rifle brigades rolling across the West German countryside?  Was that being overly paranoid?

You mean to say i could use a T-72 platoon and defend myself against an Abram column in a desert enviornment? .. dude look at the size of Israels army and then look at their equipment. Buffer or no buffer desert will cause equal problems for us as they will for the offender.

And what allies are we talking about here ....*laughs* ... dude no one here is an ally , they'd desert you in a minute as soon s they find a advantage going there way. Sorry but the arab countries are hopelessly divided on petty religious issues and BIGTIME EGO MANIACS ruling us are not making things easier.

The Paranaio is completely based on fictional stupidty IMO.

The Israelis have got the US pat under their hand whos as easy to manipulate to their needs like giving a child a candy bar and asking him to do your stuff. They'll outright support Israel and we all know how capable the american army is and how crucial its Satelitte and spy sats are in warfare.Besides Lebanon is out of the talk of this onvasion which leaves SA , Syria and Egypt and Jordan to pose a threat even though Jordan isnt gonn do anything. And Iraq is now thankfully another US colony.

I wonder what sort of a threat Syrian forces pos to Israel lasttime i saw was that Syrian degraded Mig-29 being shot to down by Israeli F-15s ...

[Schoeler 0]

You mean to say i could use a T-72 platoon and defend myself against an Abram column in a desert enviornment?    .. dude look at the size of Israels army and then look at their equipment. Buffer or no buffer desert will cause equal problems for us as they will for the offender.

No dude I mean your T-72 platoon or your Abrahms column aren't going to do you much difference either way if your enemy only has 30 miles of space between itself and your major cities.  No matter how good your armor or air power technology is, someone with enough T-55 or T-62 tanks could beat a large number of the world's best tanks if all there is between them and their objective is several dozen kilometers of desert.   The distance between you and your enemies is a  HUGE factor in warfare, its called a buffer zone.  Did you know that if Saddam had rolled into Saudi Arabia immediately after securing Kuwait, Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm would have been impossible?  Even with the much greater buffer zone of the Saudi desert between Saddam's forces and Riyadh, Saddam could have taken the country before the U.S. (Saudi Arabia's ally by the way) could have responded effectively.

Quote[/b] ]And what allies are we talking about here ....*laughs*     ... dude no one here is an ally , they'd desert you in a minute as soon s they find a advantage going there way. Sorry but the arab countries are hopelessly divided on petty religious issues and BIGTIME EGO MANIACS ruling us are not making things easier.

Hmmm, *chuckles* I think you have some history to read and maybe a little reading up on political science, international political economy and foreign relations.  Considering most of the global economy runs on a backbone of oil, I'd think a lot of outside powers have a vested interest in addressing any serious threat to their continued oil supply.  How much education do you have by the way?  I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just geniunely curious.

Quote[/b] ]The Paranaio is completely based on fictional stupidty IMO.

The Israelis have got the US pat under their hand whos as easy to manipulate to their needs like giving a child a candy bar and asking him to do your stuff. They'll outright support Israel and we all know how capable the american army is and how crucial its Satelitte and spy sats are in warfare.Besides Lebanon is out of the talk of this onvasion which leaves SA , Syria and Egypt and Jordan to pose a threat even though Jordan isnt gonn do anything. And Iraq is now thankfully another US colony.

I wonder what sort of a threat Syrian forces pos to Israel lasttime i saw was that Syrian degraded Mig-29 being shot to down by Israeli F-15s ...

Yeah, Israel manipulates the only true economic and military hegemon left in the modern world, sure guy, think that if it makes you feel better or doesn't force you to seriously consider the flaws in your worldview.

What sort of threat is Syria to Israel?  Look at the Yom Kippur war for God's sake, has the threat really changed all that much?  Has Israel suddenly aquired a large buffer zone between itself and its enemies?

Syrian Military Strength and Organization

Syrian Army Strength

Syrian Air Force Strength

Whoever said it was right, its not 1973 anymore, Syria is much more dangerous now.

[bn880 5]

Whatever then, I say the US is the most dangerous. So, what a big dillema, how to prepare for the inevitable invasion. My neighbour is dangerous, but i don't plan on burning his house down in the middle of the night because of it.

[denoir 0]

Whoever said it was right, its not 1973 anymore, Syria is much more dangerous now.

Isreal then has a very strange way of acknowledging that since it was Israel that bombed Syria now, not vice versa.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ] No matter how good your armor or air power technology is, someone with enough T-55 or T-62 tanks could beat a large number of the world's best tanks if all there is between them and their objective is several dozen kilometers of desert

No way the battles in Iraq proved it ... they had T-72s dont they? If your AF is good enough massive bombardments can make rust out of the armor very quickly remember the Highway of death (or whatever it was called?).

And Saddam didnt roll in to Saudi Arabia for a different reason.Besides we were talking about Israel a well armed modern , effiecint force not a force from 80's or 70's.

Quote[/b] ]Hmmm, *chuckles* I think you have some history to read and maybe a little reading up on political science, international political economy and foreign relations.

I think you need to re-read my comment i was solely commenting on ARAB countries , as for foreign countries ofcourse they would coming helter skelter to protect their interests like they always do *sigh* .. besides this whole scenario was a hypothetical one not real if your thinking that way , america wont let anything happen to its pretty oil partner would it , not with BUSHie around.

As for my education ask Avon she knows a lot about our education system and cirriculum

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, Israel manipulates the only true economic and military hegemon left in the modern world, sure guy, think that if it makes you feel better or doesn't force you to seriously consider the flaws in your worldview.

LOL do you seriously think that way? i didnt think that way so keep your assumptions to yourself.

As for those links man you cracked me up there , did you even see what Syria owns and how it matches up to Israels AF?

Syria has Su-17's and Mig-23's wow they are a detterence against F-16D and F-16C and F-15/I's coupled with AWACS which Israel has through which it can bust open half those planes drop dead on the ground.

Do you think If Syria attacks israel now america will wait further and not go in bust things up there too ? After all those elusive invisible WMD's are also rumoured to have walked themselves in to Syria....

If someone still feels Syria is a threat then i think all they have for an army is a broomstick to fly on and a stick to beat with instead of guns and planes.

[Major Fubar 0]

I feel sorry for Syria - if GWs advisors hadn't gotten in his ear he may well have "rolled on" into Syria with even less justification and evidence than his illegal invasion of Iraq. Syria is well and truly on TBAs "bad guy" list (even if they didnt quite make it into the Axis of Evil). It seems now all that America has to do to legitimise a country as an enemy is make some half-assed remarks about "harbouring terrorists" and draw some weak links to Saddam.

The whole middle east situation would be a helluva a lot better if we Western countries hadn't have gone sticking our noses in - from the middle ages when our crusades were to recapture the holy land, up until our modern crusades for black gold, we have done nothing but aggrivate the situation and inflame the region.

Israel is America's primary foot-in-the-door in the ME, and if any country posed a genuine threat to Israel I have little doubt that the USA would stomp them into the ground and "bomb 'em back to the stoneage".

[ruff 102]

Oh please hellfish the Gap is widening everyday we move further , try and compare IAF with RSAF ? We have F-15/E's they got F-15/I's we asked for F-16's got crap in return because america feared we might bring Pakistani pilots here , and they might use stuff from it to hand it to china and help in production of that FC-1 plane they are making jointly.

Technology doesn't mean crap if you don't have enough strategic buffer space to stop or stall an armored invasion.  Saudi Arabia has lots of open desert between it and any potential enemy to employ that technology and stall an enemy advance long enough for it and its allies to get their act together and respond.  Israel does not have that luxury.  All that technology can make it costly for anyone to take them on, but it can't keep them form losing a war.  

You people should really study these things more before posting.

Oh, and as far as paranoia about invasion goes, I think the Isrealis are justified considereing how many time their enemies have attempted it.  Is this a bit like the paranoia Europe felt about Russian armored divisions and motorized rifle brigades rolling across the West German countryside?  Was that being overly paranoid?

You mean to say i could use a T-72 platoon and defend myself against an Abram column in a desert enviornment?    .. dude look at the size of Israels army and then look at their equipment. Buffer or no buffer desert will cause equal problems for us as they will for the offender.

And what allies are we talking about here ....*laughs*     ... dude no one here is an ally , they'd desert you in a minute as soon s they find a advantage going there way. Sorry but the arab countries are hopelessly divided on petty religious issues and BIGTIME EGO MANIACS ruling us are not making things easier.

The Paranaio is completely based on fictional stupidty IMO.

The Israelis have got the US pat under their hand whos as easy to manipulate to their needs like giving a child a candy bar and asking him to do your stuff. They'll outright support Israel and we all know how capable the american army is and how crucial its Satelitte and spy sats are in warfare.Besides Lebanon is out of the talk of this onvasion which leaves SA , Syria and Egypt and Jordan to pose a threat even though Jordan isnt gonn do anything. And Iraq is now thankfully another US colony.

I wonder what sort of a threat Syrian forces pos to Israel lasttime i saw was that Syrian degraded Mig-29 being shot to down by Israeli F-15s ...

thats why they wont sell u weapons

america lost the war on terror wen countries (iraq, samolia, germany, u.s. it self) were negotiating with terrorist and terrorist habouring states

they had enuff

they even made a deal with iran!!!!(to stop terrorist attacks in exchange of weapons)

its past faults that make the future

during the 80s also during the lebanon civil war americas spies were even dealing with palestinian terrorists so u.s. representatives were guaranteed safety, yet they got bombed!

im not sayin ur country is a terror habouring state, its the reason u urself gave b4 is the reason y america wont sell ur country weapons

america wont deal if theres a risk of its enemies getting the weapons its sells to a country

look at iraq! trusted then betrayed!

[Schoeler 0]

Quote[/b] ] No matter how good your armor or air power technology is, someone with enough T-55 or T-62 tanks could beat a large number of the world's best tanks if all there is between them and their objective is several dozen kilometers of desert

No way the battles in Iraq proved it ... they had T-72s dont they? If your AF is good enough massive bombardments can make rust out of the armor very quickly remember the Highway of death (or whatever it was called?).

And Saddam didnt roll in to Saudi Arabia for a different reason.Besides we were talking about Israel a well armed modern , effiecint force not a force from 80's or 70's.

I was using Saudi Arabia to provide you with a hypothetical example so that you might fully understand the concept of a strategic buffer zone *scratches head* and now I'm afraid to use another one as it might take this argument off onto another irrelevant and bizarre tangent.

Did you ever read about how close the Syrians came to conquering Israel in '73?  Airforces aren't some super cosmic deathray weapon.  Modern aircraft can fly sorties and carry only a limited amount of munitions.  They can't blast hundreds of tanks, armored vehicles and infantry in one fell swoop.  They need to turn around, refuel and rearm.  If the time it takes for them to do this is oh say about half an hour, then those armored columns which initially only had 30 miles to advance, have now begun entering Israel's border towns and cities.  Israel doesn't have the airpower to eliminate Syrian armor in 20 or 30 sorties let alone one or two.  Those Iraqi tanks were destroyed because they were caught out in the open hundreds of kilometers from their destination over a period of several hours by a much more superior air force than the IAF.  Have you ever served in the military?  These are really very basic tactical concepts.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, Israel manipulates the only true economic and military hegemon left in the modern world, sure guy, think that if it makes you feel better or doesn't force you to seriously consider the flaws in your worldview.

LOL do you seriously think that way?    i didnt think that way so keep your assumptions to yourself.

Yes, I do think that way.  It comes from studying this sort of stuff over the last four years.  As far as keeping my opinions to myself, well I thought the purpose of this forum was as a venue to express our opinions.  Maybe I'm wrong.

Quote[/b] ]As for those links man you cracked me up there    , did you even see what Syria owns and how it matches up to Israels AF?

Syria has Su-17's    and Mig-23's wow they are a detterence against F-16D and F-16C and F-15/I's coupled with AWACS which Israel has through which it can bust open half those planes drop dead on the ground.

Did you miss the part about the Russian Mig-29's?  Sure, Syria would lose an air war with the IAF, but it would take the IAF more than a few days to gain air superiority let alone air supremacy.

Quote[/b] ]Do you think If Syria attacks israel now america will wait further and not go in bust things up there too ? After all those elusive invisible WMD's are also rumoured to have walked themselves in to Syria....

If someone still feels Syria is a threat then i think all they have for an army is a broomstick to fly on and a stick to beat with instead of guns and planes.

Nope I think the U.S. would pretty much bomb them until they pissed down their legs, but it takes awhile to get those air assets in place.  Israel would be in a lot of trouble before then.

As far as the Syrian army being a joke, you call this:

Quote[/b] ]The army had nine divisional formations.

a joke?

Quote[/b] ]In addition to being the largest, the army was the best equipped of the three services, with over 4,100 Soviet-built tanks (including 1,000 of the advanced T-72's) and a formidable air defense system of SAM batteries and myriad antiaircraft guns and artillery.

How about that? 1000 T-72's are more than a stick.

[Acecombat 0]

Combined effort Schoeler , COMBINE effort i dontknow why you are taking either the AF all alone or the army , they work in synchroization , Syria would lay flat on its belly if Israeli AF and armor bent overs it rusted 1000 T-72's , what happened to those iraqi T-72? and Migs?

Quote[/b] ]Yes, I do think that way. It comes from studying this sort of stuff over the last four years. As far as keeping my opinions to myself, well I thought the purpose of this forum was as a venue to express our opinions. Maybe I'm wrong

Hello wise schoeler you can make your opinion and post it here but not PASTE it over me and tell me that THATS what i THINK. I know where you came from so dont plz squirm out by lying

Quote[/b] ]Did you miss the part about the Russian Mig-29's? Sure, Syria would lose an air war with the IAF, but it would take the IAF more than a few days to gain air superiority let alone air supremacy.

Hmm did you read about the recent Syrian - IAF encounter how did those GODLY Mig-29s of yours perform againt the F-15? they got shot out of the skies 2 of them. IAF has a very capable Loacte and scramble ground crew which is alert , the last time the IAF flew over us noone even knew

And EVER checked on those degraded Mig-29 their radar range and weapons onboard? Do some background studying on them.

Oh my Syria has a 1000 T-72s i am genuinely scared

Quote[/b] ]Iraq deployed about 4,500 tanks, including advanced versions of the T72. Other army equipment included about 4,000 armored vehicles, more than 3,000 towed and self-propelled artillery pieces

http://www.globalsecurity.org/militar....tro.htm

Now what fate did those tanks made that Syrians wont meet..... otherwise they have some ultra-Mammoth tank hidden with those WMD's which guillable enough people believe i dont think they gonna stand a chance but you will have a opposing view i guess.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Hello wise schoeler you can make your opinion and post it here but not PASTE it over me and tell me that THATS what i THINK.

This is rather patronising, taunting and perhaps even flame baiting. Quite uncalled for IMO.

If you are upset about something, take a deep breath and get something to drink before you reply - it helps avoiding trouble

[Acecombat 0]

Hello  wise schoeler you can make your opinion and post it here but not PASTE it over me and tell me that THATS what i THINK.

This is rather patronising, taunting and perhaps even flame baiting. Quite uncalled for IMO.

If you are upset about something, take a deep breath and get something to drink before you reply - it helps avoiding trouble

Hmm i agree ex-Ronin taking a deep breathe helps a lot , but you can see from Schoeler FIRST comments , wasnt that qualifying as flame baitive too?

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, Israel manipulates the only true economic and military hegemon left in the modern world, sure guy, think that if it makes you feel better or doesn't force you to seriously consider the flaws in your worldview

He made a comment and decided that it was mine too , sorry but i dont allow anyone to formulate an opinion for myself.

[Schoeler 0]

You said:

Quote[/b] ]The Israelis have got the US pat under their hand whos as easy to manipulate to their needs like giving a child a candy bar and asking him to do your stuff.

and I replied with:

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, Israel manipulates the only true economic and military hegemon left in the modern world

You also said:

Quote[/b] ]And Iraq is now thankfully another US colony.

Which, frankly, really pissed me off since the U.S. hasn't even gotten Iraq stabilized yet, let alone the opportunity to pull themselves out and let Iraq have their country back, so I finished my reply with:

Quote[/b] ]sure guy, think that if it makes you feel better or doesn't force you to seriously consider the flaws in your worldview.

Now granted, that was en emotional response, but only because of your initial flamebait.

Now, you can take this personally or not, I really don't give a shit.  I think that you are a bit ignorant about world affairs judging by some of your outlandish and unsubstantiated statements like the one above.  You react to things that are happening in the world of international relations with an alarmist view bias and you see evil and danger lurking in every action taken by the United States.  The fact that you seem to expect the United States to have Iraq completely squared away and handed back to the Iraqis in less than 3-5 years reflects that ignorance, as the statement that Iraq is now a U.S. colony reflects your alarmist nature.

Also, the fact that you can outright insult my country and not expect me to take offense is a rather pedantic and ridiculuous expectation on your part.  So don't dish it out if you can't handle eating it yourself.  I have an education in international politics and am in the process of furthering that education.  This sort of stuff is of great interest to me.  I read books, follow news articles and speak regularly to scholars and professors with far more knowledge than I have on these subjects, so naturally I'm going to come at you with an informed opinion.  I'm not saying my opinion is the right one, or even always factually accurate, but I'm going to do my best in these sorts of arguments to present credible evidence to back my arguments, and I'm naturally going to resent anyone who makes ignorant and unsubstantiated statements, particularly ridiculuous generalizations that show as my opponent, he is less interested in having a ture academic debate, and more interested in flame baiting.

If you want my respect, back your arguments with support and give specific arguments rather than blanket generalizations.

Oh, by the way, I'm aware that Israel would use a combined arms effort to repel any Syrian invasion, but again, you've entirely missed my point about buffer zones in that it doesn't matter how much firepower Israel throws at Syria's rusted T-72's (of which you aren't afraid ), Israel doesn't have enough space to trade for ordinance expenditure to stop a Syrian onslaught.  Unless they use tactical nukes, conventional firepower isn't going to be enough with such a short distance between them and the enemy.  Also, it takes time to mobilize those tanks and get them into place to repel an invasion, how far do you think the Syrians might get into Israel in the mean time?

Quote[/b] ]I wonder what sort of a threat Syrian forces pos to Israel lasttime i saw was that Syrian degraded Mig-29 being shot to down by Israeli F-15s ...

And, you've obviously failed to consider that Syria too, would be making a combined arms effort in any such invasion, not committing their assets piecemeal, so while those IAF F-15's are busy shooting down Syrian Migs and Sukhois, guess what Syria's ground forces are going to be doing?  They are going to maximize the envelope of time it takes for Israel to gain air superiority to eat up as much ground as they can into Israel itself.  While the IAF is committed to fighting an air war, Syrian armor will take advantage of the lack of CAS for Israeli ground forces and drive as hard and far as they can into enemy territory.

Map of Buffer Zones

Note the U.N. established buffer zone on the map.  It isn't all that big is it?  The only adavantage the Israelis have is the terrain of the Golan Heights. That might slow Syrian armor down enough for Israel to marhsall enough forces to be effective.  If the Syrians get the cooperation of Jordan or get another arab state to attack Israel simultaneously again like say, Oh I don't know maybe Egypt, Israel, like in '73 has to commit it's forces on two fronts.  Not a pretty scenario.

[denoir 0]

Schoeler, a few simple points:

[*] Although Syria has a lot more hardware it is three generations behind.

[*] They've already faught (Yom Kippur war) when it was Syria, Egypt backed by Iraq and SA finanically on one side and Israel on the other. Result: Israel kicked their ass and Isralli forces occupied part of Syria (which they gave back later after peace-talks).

[*] The odds against Israel were much greater back then due to the fact that the Arabs had brand new Soviet equipment (although they apparently didn't know how to utilize it properly).

[*] Israel bombed Syria the other day, not vice-versa.

So I'd say that today Israel poses much more danger to Syria than Syria to Israel. Combine that with the American forces in the neighbourhood and you have a very powerless Syria.

[Schoeler 0]

Schoeler, a few simple points:

[*] Although Syria has a lot more hardware it is three generations behind.

Three generations behind true, but it really wouldn't make a difference if they have enough of it to throw at the Israelis over a short space.

Quote[/b] ][*] They've already faught (Yom Kippur war) when it was Syria, Egypt backed by Iraq and SA finanically on one side and Israel on the other. Result: Israel kicked their ass and Isralli forces occupied part of Syria (which they gave back later after peace-talks).

Israel came withing a hair's breadth of having their asses handed to them in that war. They turned it around and then beat the Syrians true, but it could easily have gone the other way and almost did.

Quote[/b] ][*] The odds against Israel were much greater back then due to the fact that the Arabs had brand new Soviet equipment (although they apparently didn't know how to utilize it properly).

True the equipment was new then, but its really not that old now, and Syria has upgraded some of it. also, they know how to use it now, which makes them all the more dangerous.

Quote[/b] ][*] Israel bombed Syria the other day, not vice-versa.

So I'd say that today Israel poses much more danger to Syria than Syria to Israel. Combine that with the American forces in the neighbourhood and you have a very powerless Syria.

I agree with you there. Israel did bomb Syria, so they are risking escalating the Palestinian-Israeli crisis into a region-wide war. If that happens, Israel is going to need the United States to lend a helping hand, or they could be in serious trouble. The prblem is that the American forces in the neighborhood are committed to another task. Additional forces would have to be brought in, meaning it would take too much time to be of any real help to Israel.

I do see Syria as an equally dangerous player in this regional game of roulette. They actively back terrorist organizations. Have done nothing to stem the flow of terrorists into Iraq across their borders and possess WMD themselves. I don't really see their government as a rock of stability or a font of tolerance. Does it mean they deserve to be invaded? No, it doesn't, but they should face some sanctions and possible political isolation. Until governments like this get their act together, they should remain political paraiahs.

[bn880 5]

I agree with you there. Israel did bomb Syria, so they are risking escalating the Palestinian-Israeli crisis into a region-wide war. If that happens, Israel is going to need the United States to lend a helping hand, or they could be in serious trouble.

Holy carpola! You are then talking WW3 are you not! If US gives a helping hand, then I guess others should give hte Arabs a helping hand, like Russia and most of EU.

[Schoeler 0]

I agree with you there.  Israel did bomb Syria, so they are risking escalating the Palestinian-Israeli crisis into a region-wide war.  If that happens, Israel is going to need the United States to lend a helping hand, or they could be in serious trouble.

Holy carpola!  You are then talking WW3 are you not!  If US gives a helping hand, then I guess others should give hte Arabs a helping hand, like Russia and most of EU.

Yeah it would propbably be a world war if the conflict escalates region-wide. The U.S. would be obligated to help an ally if invaded. We have to honor our committments. This is why Israel bombing the Syrians scares the hell out of me. Its like lighting matches near an open can of gas.

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Three generations behind true, but it really wouldn't make a difference if they have enough of it to throw at the Israelis over a short space.

Israels army is more then equal to it , there numbers are only a little bit behind but having modern day technical equipments coupled with the logistical support US will give Israel , it WILL BEAT the CRAP out of Syria anyday.

Quote[/b] ]True the equipment was new then, but its really not that old now, and Syria has upgraded some of it. also, they know how to use it now, which makes them all the more dangerous.

Do you have any idea how MUCH israel has upgrade from then?? And dont you think israel also knows how to pull a few buttons ? Even Syrians dont have this much confidence in their army as much as you are showing

Quote[/b] ]Have done nothing to stem the flow of terrorists into Iraq across their borders and possess WMD themselves

Hmm now the WMDs are in Syria ?

Isnt this excuse to go to war a bit over used? Do you think the american public will fall once more over this issue?

[Schoeler 0]

Quote[/b] ]Three generations behind true, but it really wouldn't make a difference if they have enough of it to throw at the Israelis over a short space.

Israels army is more then equal to it , there numbers are only a little bit behind but having modern day technical equipments coupled with the logistical support US will give Israel , it WILL BEAT the CRAP out of Syria anyday.

Well, I don't think we are ever going to agree on this. No matter how hard I try, you just don't seem to be getting the tactical and strategic concepts I've pointed out to you.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]True the equipment was new then, but its really not that old now, and Syria has upgraded some of it. also, they know how to use it now, which makes them all the more dangerous.

Do you have any idea how MUCH israel has upgrade from then?? And dont you think israel also knows how to pull a few buttons ? Even Syrians dont have this much confidence in their army as much as you are showing

I can't speak for the Syrian army, but I'd be willing to bet they're fairly confident in their fighting ability. The site I linked to said their morale is rather high actually.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Have done nothing to stem the flow of terrorists into Iraq across their borders and possess WMD themselves

Hmm now the WMDs are in Syria ?

Isnt this excuse to go to war a bit over used? Do you think the american public will fall once more over this issue?

Uhhm No, they didn't need any of Saddam's weapons (if he still had any) they have their own weapons programs.

and for your benefit, I'll quote myself here:

Quote[/b] ]I do see Syria as an equally dangerous player in this regional game of roulette. They actively back terrorist organizations. Have done nothing to stem the flow of terrorists into Iraq across their borders and possess WMD themselves. I don't really see their government as a rock of stability or a font of tolerance. Does it mean they deserve to be invaded? No, it doesn't, but they should face some sanctions and possible political isolation.