The Middle East part 2

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Well, I don't think we are ever going to agree on this. No matter how hard I try, you just don't seem to be getting the tactical and strategic concepts I've pointed out to you.

Yes i have understood what you are trying to say but its meaningless in such a one sided battle where you have the Worlds sole superpower backing a country with already military superiority in the region against a poor nation which wields 3 decade old equipment.You seem to be undermining Israels profesionalism in amred conflicts very much , remember they got US one their side all the spy sats , everything at their disposal , if Syria makes one move to make a massive offensive US would efinitely know , Israel would be alert , this isnt the way your making it out to be , Syrians until unless move so covertly and cautiously that noone from above suspects them then might infiltrate israel enough and cause damage but then again it wont be able to hold it US would see to that ..... and we will all know what that means ... Toma Hawk rain...

Quote[/b] ]Uhhm No, they didn't need any of Saddam's weapons (if he still had any) they have their own weapons programs

Mind showing me proof , links??

Now syria has its own WMD's ... whats next ?

[EiZei 0]

What would be the point? US would come and bomb Syria back to stone age if they would try anything, and certainly the Syrian leaders dont want to sign their own death warrant?

[bucket man 2]

I think that USA's economy couldnt bare a single war more. They have enough doing in Iraq.

[joltan 0]

I think that USA's economy couldnt bare a single war more. They have enough doing in Iraq.

And you think shrub would care about this if it made him win the elections?

[bn880 5]

I think that USA's economy couldnt bare a single war more. They have enough doing in Iraq.

Yeah well, they are setting some strange goals on Cuba now. Hopefully it's not another war to free the opressed people.

Anyway, I heard on Canadian news, there are 550 Israeli soldiers refusing to serve in the West Bank. They are being sent off to military prison for around a month, a Canadian born Israeli is one of them. Thumbs up from me, better 5 years in jail than killing innocent people... ok maybe more than 5. And better a month than terrorizing them.

[Acecombat 0]

Dont tell me that they were resevists bn880

As for american economy ... it seems to die down and still emerge somehow on top ... and as Ezei put it who cares aslong as the politicians have their seat. Its a race to the top.

[bn880 5]

Yeah I think they were reservists, I will have to double check maybe.

511 reservists and over 50 regulars refused.

[bn880 5]

On the same issue check out this website:

http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp

[Acecombat 0]

Hmm why are all the reservists leaving? .....

[killagee 0]

I usually stay well clear of this thread, but this has me fuming...

I presume it has already been discussed here, but just incase:

Isreal Deploys Nukes on Submarines

The shear fucking idiocy of these morons, and their just as selfish moronic "enemies" makes me sick.

I learnt this simple thing when I was about 5. Cause = Effect / Action = Reaction.

Editied to Avoid post restriction. Anybody who wants to know what I was gonna say can PM me.

[killagee 0]

Dont tell me that they were resevists bn880

As for american economy ... it seems to die down and still emerge somehow on top ... and as Ezei put it who cares aslong as the politicians have their seat. Its a race to the top.

It is war, or should I say the preparation for it that keeps the US economy floating above the reality of debt and a currency which is no longer tied down by tangibles and gold.

This is how it is supposed to be. Re: Dwight D. Eisenhowers Guidelines laid out in the Essays concerning what he called "The Military Industrial Complex" in NSC 53, which is available for free from the pentagon. It is law that they send it to you if you ask for it. You can get every year from NSC46 up to NSC 74. Next year you will be able to get NSC 75 etc etc. They are usually leaked a few years ahead.

World peace would mean the US and a few European economies collapsing into the holes they have dug.

Sorry if too Offtopic...

[EiZei 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3185704.stm

Something tells me this is not going to reduce the amount of suicide bombers.

[Acecombat 0]

Hey dont you dare say that ... , the IDF's action are 100% legal i am sure they have a VERY VALID reason for it right?

I refused [to leave] but then they threatened to kill me with machine-guns... In 30 minutes, our house was as flat as the land

Threatening civilians , buldozing houses ... that should make them really popular and make an average Israeli feel very happy n safe in his home.

[Acecombat 0]

Syria or ...BUST

Whoa now they lead the US to another conflict .... i cant imagine this is happening now... just a fw days ago we discussed this here and NOW they are pushing forward to another war....maybe someone read these forums and got the idea huh?

I'm still in a war mode and the war is terrorism --President Bush

When will someone switch this guys mode ? Iraq isnt decided yet and he wants to go after Syria....

[killagee 0]

Hey dont you dare say that ... , the IDF's action are 100% legal i am sure they have a VERY VALID reason for it right?

I refused [to leave] but then they threatened to kill me with machine-guns... In 30 minutes, our house was as flat as the land

Threatening civilians , buldozing houses ... that should make them really popular and make an average Israeli feel very happy n safe in his home.

Why yes, I must have a few of these nice IDF types over for dinner one day...

[SPQR 0]

I hardly believe Israël would throw itself in a ground war with Syria. Not because Syrian army would be a real and terrible threat (mainly without air superiority, unless new syrian SAM systems), but because the occupation of Syria could cost a lot to Israël because its economy & budget is already stretched to its limit. Israël economy is going really bad, even if the number of the new Merkava 4 has just been increased. And I'm 90% sure that Syrian and its baasists would be able to fight like irakians an others presently struggle against the Allies Coalition. And even Merkavas can't survive a 200kg explosive trap. The more the israëlians would stay, higher will be the cost for their breathless economy.

The Peace seems to disintegrate everywhere

[CosmicCastaway 0]

I hardly believe Israël would throw itself in a ground war with Syria.

I don't think that is the intended aim. Just keeping Syria in the Americans line of sight will probably do for now.

[Blake 0]

These Israeli incursions are quite pointless and achieve no results in curbing suicide attacks. Nor do suicide bombers get more done than attract more incursions and vice versa. Endless cycle. This kind of low intencity conflict of reprisals has been going on for decades and will do so in the future. In fact the fence project around west bank might actually have some positive effects as it actually materializes a clear border between the the nationalities which seem to have no hope of co-existing as hard-liners on both sides keep the peaceful majority pinned down.

So I think if following things apply peace and coexistince of two countries could take place:

- International, decisive conference. All sides forced to attend and agree.

- Get rid of Sharon and Arafat with elections or some unilateral decision

- Draw the borders and stick to them

- Disband all terrorist organisations by forceful means if necessary

- Allow international peacekeepers to guard the borders

with joint Palestinian/Israeli force

- International economic aid to Palestine. New businesses and employment for more people.

- Relocation of most controversial Israeli settlements

- Projects to root out the radical thinking, glorifying of suicide bombers and hatred on both sides with education and interaction between both nations. Reform of education system.

- Joint Israeli/Palestinian companies etc.

I just fear that something very tragic must yet happen untill both sides sit down and talk. Peace agreements after wars generally come out more easily after 'one big decisive shock war' but unfortunately low-intensity conflicts drag on for decades because both sides may still see current status more acceptable than peace deal which could be relatively painfull to accept as it could mean some annoying concessions. So the meat grinder keeps going until something big happens. It's sad.

[Bernadotte 0]

In fact the fence project around west bank might actually have some positive effects as it actually materializes a clear border between the the nationalities...

Really?

<span style='color:green'>green</span> line = border

<span style='color:red'>red</span> line = fence

[Blake 0]

Well I don't like fences either but maybe it will cool things down until people are mature enough to crash it together.

I think it is good for palestinians also in the long run if they build it fairly and plan it well. Unfortunately the project has not been fair to Palestinians according to some reports.

At least some kind de-facto border system is essential to any independent state at first stage. It makes everyone clear what's it all about rather than some scetches on a planning table.

Fair borders could help to feed healthy nationalism rather than terrorism and elevate people from refugee status which they are currently in. Of course you still need a good, solid government and many many things to make it work. In school books you could clearly read that this is our country instead of bitter lectures about lands that were unfairly taken decades ago and are still ours.

[Bernadotte 0]

Well I don't like fences either...

I don't mind fences as long as they follow borders and don't isolate whole communities.

But so-called fences like this one encircling entire towns become like prisons or concentration camps.

In school books you could clearly read that this is our country instead of bitter lectures about lands that were unfairly taken decades ago and are still ours.

Does your idea only apply to Palestinian Arabs or should people who had property unfairly taken by the Nazis also give up their claims?

Interesting news:  Get ready for the Geneva Accords.    

[bn880 5]

Right, I'm for a fence or wall as well but it would be reasonable to put it along that little green line would it not? Whoever is responsible for a fence at the red lines needs to take a breather for about 50 years.

EDIT: I was not insinuating that Blake supported the wall at the red lines...

[Blake 0]

I was talking about a fair fence in the first place - not referring to actual intepretations of Israelis.

And yes, I meant to add compensations to the list which would include increased economic by Israel, US and international community aid to future Palestine state as well as

some land which was unfairly taken during past wars. But not all land can be claimed back, not even all nations which lost land unfairly during WW2 were given it back as I don't support driving Israelis to Mediterranean ocean. Both sides have to give concessions to achieve peace. Terrorism, border disputes and settlements are the main obstacles to peace which now have to be setteled. But it will never happen on this current course.

[EiZei 0]

Security my arse, take a good look how it goes along those water sources.

[Major Fubar 0]

I could be wrong, but from memory the blue areas aren't water sources, they're population distribution. Without the map legend it does look like water, though.