pitufo 0 Posted March 19, 2005 Ok, I know the last thread about starforce got locked but let me make it clear I do not want to discuss piracy in this thread! I'm just curious as to what (exactly) the nature of Starforce is. I remember when Half-life 2 was released everyone was complaining about Steam. Also there was a lot of bitching about Ubi's Raven Shield 3. I've never had a problem with either. (Steam or RVS3) Please enlighten me, someone with true knowledge of computer systems and please no bitchin or piracy posts here thx. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billabong81 0 Posted March 19, 2005 From The Official Star Force Website: Quote[/b] ]StarForce Professional 3.0 is a powerful multi-level CD-ROM, DVD-ROM copy protection system designed for developers and publishers who wish to protect their applications and files against professional software piracy.Most modern copy protection systems today encrypt only the applications' executable files and then bind them in some way to the licensed discs. StarForce Professional 3.0 is the first system that offers a multi-level and fully-functional protection, which encrypts not only the executable files, but also non-executable files included in the application. With this product, you, the developer, have a unique ability to protect your localized games, edutainment / educational software, encyclopedias, and office applications. The research conducted by StarForce Technologies' specialists reveals that in most cases the pirate releases are prepared by swapping the protected executable files of one localized version with the unprotected executables of another localized version released in a different country or even with the executables coming from one of the cracked versions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKULLS_Viper 0 Posted March 19, 2005 And sadly, I've heard of hackers cracking star force copy protection... Copy protection is useless... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted March 19, 2005 The problem with starforce is that it installs drivers and other nasty stuff like which potentially can bog down your pc or even unstabilize it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pitufo 0 Posted March 19, 2005 @ EiZei, because that was the only post I understood.... What about Steam? Why was everyone pissed about that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
berghoff 11 Posted March 19, 2005 @ EiZei, because that was the only post I understood.... What about Steam? Why was everyone pissed about that? prolly because you need to "activate" HL2 by internet. Even if you bought the game in a shop you still need to have internet to play it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pitufo 0 Posted March 19, 2005 ok, makes sense, i guess i'm just really wondering then if these copy protection programs are actually as malicious as everyone makes them out to be... could someone who is an expert in the subject please comment on the claims made against starforce about the f$%ing up of CD/DVD rom burners and such? I'm asking because I don't like the idea of purchasing a game and having it f#$% my computer up as much as anyone.. But I find that a lot of people complain about stuff that: a: they don't understand and are frustrated about because of it.. (i've been guilty of this as well) b: prevents them from continuing their copy-orgy c: because of "a:" people fuel the critisism... d: I'm wondering if there is something true to it.... Anyways, I am pro-copy protection, I buy all my games with my hard earned money. I think they are overpriced, but hopefully if piracy decreases then they would become more affordable. (probably not likely...) I DO NOT, however support any company that would screw with my system and/or install any kind of spyware/adware.... Just tryin to get a handle on this starforce thing as someone who doesn't understand it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted March 19, 2005 b: prevents them from continuing their copy-orgy I have yet to see a copy protection that was not crackable. Personally I think systems like steam could increase piracy if the warezed version would be nicer to use than the original one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kegetys 2 Posted March 19, 2005 The two main reasons why I wont buy Starforce protected games is that first, I'm worried about how long the Starforce drivers will be updated; As all the games using SF are dependant of the driver, if there are no more updates then the games will no longer work in future operating systems with future hardware, so the games might end up lasting just a few years after which you cant play them anymore. Second I'm annoyed by the fact that the protection is running as a driver, in kernel space, for no reason other than that it makes debugging the driver harder. It's not a very good practice to do that because something going wrong in the SF driver will then crash the whole operating system instead of just the application. And the SF driver is active on your system all the time, even when not playing a game using it. I can imagine the situation in future if this kind of practice will be used by othe protections too, then we'll have a dozen extra 'drivers' running in kernel space, and just one bug there will crash the whole OS... That would be like going back to Windows 3.11 with no memory protection and such at all. There are other issues too, like you need Administrator priviliges to install the driver, and for some people it has caused mysterious problems like CD/DVD burners not working anymore or even making the whole OS not boot. Also, as Starforce is so slow to 'crack', there often wont be no-cd patches out which is really annoying. I have a big hard drive so I can install all my games there, its just dumb to have to still keep that disc in the drive. Of steam I dont know much, but as far as I know, it's running in your system all the time also doing updates and such in the background... That's propably fine for one game, but imagine a situation where all publishers would have their own 'steam' application, you'd end up with dozens of steam-like programs running in the background, all doing updates and things which would most likely be quite a mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Madus_Maximus 0 Posted March 19, 2005 I find with these kinds of system there is a huge dose of irony involved. The system is meant to "stop piracy", yet those who have pirate copies don't have this copy protection, for obvious reasons. The irony is, that those who have the legal version sometimes have issues installing and getting them to work. Example. I currently reinstalled Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield. In order to do so, I had to uninstall about Å100 worth of 100% legal Nero burning software, because it had a protection software built in to the install system whereby it doesn't let you install if it detects applications which give you the ability to make a copy of the game. In my opinion this isn't on. Everything you own and do is legal, even under law, you have the legal right to make ONE backup copy of your games, which technically makes copy-protection illegal in that sense. It just doesn't work. They say Steam is to stop pirating and cheating. The thing is, those who have pirate copies no longer have Steam registration dependency in order to play their game! So in short, those who have a copied version of say Half-Life 2 will have less issues than those with a legal version. I had one from a friend before buying a proper copy, and I had no problem installing it (With the lagal copy it took 40 minutes to install and "activate the files", even on 512k broadband. Don't even bother with 56k), it ran smoother (I had the "stutter bug" with the legal copy), it crashed less, (the legal copy always checks for "updates" when you load a level, and if you're not connected to the net at the time (eg your connection dropped) or it can't access the servers for some reason (overworked or soemthing) then it crashes the game!). Steam is a load of shit IMO. It's a good idea in principle, but poorly executed. I'm just waiting for the time someone hacks the system and makes it so you "auto-update" a virus which screws over your computer. I'm sure someone will do it. Imagine the law suites then against Valve? They should leave publishing to publishers, and stick to developing things, which is what they get paid to do. They're just overly greedy. You get jack in the "Silver" and "Gold" pakages you have to order through Steam you know. Wow, you get the "back catalogue of games" and Day of Defeat: Source and Half Life: Source... ok, HLS is a less than half assed port, and DoDS looks the same. It looks aweful! Wow, makes you feel good for paying that extra money! The mods made by amateurs look more impressive then the official stuff. The remake of HL 1 by an un pro team (Black Mesa Source) looks 10 times more impressive than the crap Valve made then forced people to pay for for the privalge. Anyway, rant over. In short, copy protection doesn't work. The only thing I've noticed to have any success is "FADE". The rest work fine when cracked, ironicly with less problems then those that are legal. Ah well. I just hopy BIS doesn't go the same way with a Steam like system, and if they do, make it so it's simply an update platorm where you can have the option to download an update when it becomes available, rather than simply get the option of "auto update and install" or "don't do jack, dont'e even tell me when there is one" like Steam does right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
der bastler 0 Posted March 19, 2005 For me it is simple: Steam required? Keep your stuff, I don't want it. Back the in the "good ol days" you got a pile of easy-to-copy floppy disks, a code wheel and nobody complained about a bad Monkey Island sales. Face it, publishers: The more you mangle the legal user, the more illegal copies will be made. This war publisher vs. customer is escalating since the late 90s. There are enough people honouring a good game with a buy (me included). Those "Pfosten" who don't buy a game and copy dozens won't buy a game even if the copy protection would be 100% un-crackable. Period. But in the last years more and more publishers --in the field of games, music, movies-- are treating their customers like potential criminals. And wonder why the sales decrease. I remember a poster from a collection of business management tips: "How much does it cost to treat your customers well?" "A smile." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pitufo 0 Posted March 19, 2005 Well, here's hoping that OFP2 won't use starforce! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted March 19, 2005 Well, here's hoping that OFP2 won't use starforce! Codemasters has been using SF in its recently published games so.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
berghoff 11 Posted March 19, 2005 Well I think I installed a game with SF once, I hope it remove its "driver" when you uninstall the game. When I installed the game I had no idea SF used drivers . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0 Posted March 19, 2005 Well I think I installed a game with SF once, I hope it remove its "driver" when you uninstall the game. When I installed the game I had no idea SF used drivers . It doesnt. Thats what half the outcry has been about. I also sincerely hope that starforce stops being used. I couldnt play "soldiers - Heroes of WWII" because of it - and I had a legit copy. I had to go find a workaround the stupid starforce to get the legal copy to work - introducing a lot of 'dubious' websites to me - which for many people would actually encourage piracy, once they are driven to the site by the non-working anti-piracy crap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billabong81 0 Posted March 19, 2005 Another problem with starforce is it doesn't let you run the game if you have a DVD or CD burner on your PC that is active. Everytime you want to play the game you have to disable your drive and re-enable when your done. It is just a stupid program that messes your PC up and IMO is not worth the hassle...one of the main reasons I never bought Soldiers: heroes of WW2 or whatever . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h - 169 Posted March 20, 2005 I have legal (read: bought) Soldiers blah blah and not one problem has occurred (apart from couple of times the game not recognising it's own CD ).. DVD 'burner' works, virtual drives work, I have a few different DVD/CD burning software installed and none of them has malfunctioned or interfered with the game in any way... Also, starforce company has a update program for updating the drivers and a removal tool so you can remove it after uninstalling the game... Never tried those so wouldn't know how/if they work... But if it would cause problems with my pc I would be very annoyed... If starforce indeed starts to spread I hope the develope it so that it will be more userfriendly etc... Hopefully game industry doesn't go the way of the music industry where the record labels don't care about if their product is usable by the end-user.. They just care about how many copies of their product is sold... I have no experience with Steam... Altough I have a couple of friends who have HL2 and the are greatly annoyed by that.. It's not the reason why I wont buy HL2, it's just that the game sucks... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JdB 151 Posted March 20, 2005 Hopefully game industry doesn't go the way of the music industry where the record labels don't care about if their product is usable by the end-user.. They just care about how many copies of their product is sold... But then again, who is wrong here. The people making the cd's, or the customers stupid enough to buy unusable crap? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoOB 0 Posted March 20, 2005 But then again, who is wrong here. The people making the cd's, or the customers stupid enough to buy unusable crap? Half of the time you haven't a clue if the CD is useable in a CD-rom drive. And what to do if you don't have a choice? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
der bastler 0 Posted March 20, 2005 And what to do if you don't have a choice? No choice? You are not bound by contract to play a game. So the choice is clear: You don't like the publisher's conditions of sale? Then don't play his games... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h - 169 Posted March 20, 2005 <table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">You don't like the publisher's conditions of sale? Then don't play his games... Hmm, let's see how many of us here 'forgets' this when OFP2 comes out and uses for example StarForce... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nemesis6 0 Posted March 20, 2005 Naaah, BIS loves us, the community, too much to do this to us. This is something that's more the style of EA Interactive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EiZei 0 Posted March 20, 2005 Naaah, BIS loves us, the community, too much to do this to us. This is something that's more the style of EA Interactive. Methinks publishers usually decide on copy protection rather than the devs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpongeBob 0 Posted March 20, 2005 Is there a list of game that are published with Starforce? Or is it marked on the box somewhere? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
h - 169 Posted March 20, 2005 Actually now that you mentioned that I went and checked the SHOWW2 manual and it says "this Codemasters game is protected by the FADE protection system..."... There's no mention about StarForce... So does it even use it?? I just assumed it would as everybody seemed to think so... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
