US Civil War Mod ver.1.0 Beta Released

[Triglav 0]

Howdy y'all.

This'll be a long one, hopefully to start a smart discussion.

A few questions/concepts for the community, to plan the development...expand on any answers you like and help us determine which things in a mod should be priority, what the future of such a mod should be, etc.

1. How do you use CWMOD?

a. I make quick missions and play around.

b. I only play made missions/campaigns.

c. I take parts of it to develop my own mod.

2. What should CWMOD have more of?

a. More units.

b. More weapons.

c. More buildings/objects.

d. More islands.

3. What sort of missions/campaigns you like to see developed?

a. Historic.

b. Fantasy.

c. What if?

d. Multiplayer.

4. How should CWMOD function?

a. As historicly accurate as possible.

b. As long as it's fun to play.

These answers are just suggestions. Feel free to answer in any way you like.

See, several issues are in debate among us still working on CWMOD.

For instance weapons.

CWMODs dispersion factors are a combination of historic (in)accuracy of period weapons, combined with battle stress reduced efficiency, to mak it look realistic in OFP.

The beta release ha dispersion set ver high, so if was really a pain in the ass to hit anything...in v.1.1 we increased it somewhat due to popular demand...some still complain over inaccuracy.

Let me explain what this is all about...

In theory a Springfield rifle could hit a target at 400 yards easily. But actually, regiments stood in close formation 80-150 yards apart, blasted at each other for 10 or 20 minutes and ran away after some 20%-30% of men got hit (if they didn't withdraw eariler, or in the case of some very heroic regiments that had movies made about them later, suffered up to 40% casualities).

Try this in OFP...if you set accuracy to 400 yard hits your whole squad will get annihilated in 15 seconds. In fact it pretty much does even now, when acuracy is set to about 150 yards.

So where is the difference between a gun's acuracy and battlefield accuracy? It comes mainly from the stress of battle. Men shake when aiming, fire quickly before aiming carefully, just to fire a lot, they even often loaded the gun wrong (put the bullet in before the gunpowder, or jammed several bullets in cause they forgot one was already in...)

Any of you that may have served in the army, as did I or Pickett, will know how hard it is to hit anything even on maneouvres, when you're not actually afraid of dying, and how much harder it then is in battle itself. Vietnam statistics say that up to 1 million bullets were fired for each enemy killed. That's a lot of shooting!

And OFP? How often does it happen that you have 20 kills after one mission? Well...when one rebel soldier hit 20 Yankees in one battle, all southern newspapers wrote about it, because it was something so unbelievable. Usually, if you managed to get 1 or 2 in a battle, and survive, you were well off!

My intention was to model this in CWMOD's accuracy.

Even if you play paintball ever, you can see this effect. When aiming carefully, you can hit something 50 meters away. When you're in heat of battle, you pop and pop and pop at 10-20 meters and don't score. Once I ran into a guy at some 8 meters without any cover, an we blasted at each other about 10 shots, before I got hit.

In my opinion OFP and other shooters are way too accurate. AK47 in OFP...at 100-200 meters you aim, pop and the guy falls. In r/l, you run around, aim, pop pop pop pop pop, and the guy usually runs away to cover, unless he's quite unlucky.

Pistols. Damn hard buggers to hit anything. Even standing still, aiming at a target at 15 meters, it's hard to hit. Moving, shooting at moving targets, forget it. Lucky if you hit anything at 10 meters. Why do you think special police use shotguns and submachine guns? So they can spray the target with a shitload of lead at close range. Civil War era? Clouds of gunpowder smoke, poorly made ammo, 5 - 8 meters was probably max. lethal range for pistols. Just good for fending off the guy who was about to bayonet you. You know the story at Bull Run, when a rebel cavalryman charged into a bunch of Yanks and jammed his gun into one, then blew a large hole through him. Well that was a sure way.

Well...now you know why guns in CWMOD function as they do.

Some things should still be filed out a bit, but generally this is this.

Now your contributions, please...

[ProfTournesol 956]

Quote[/b] ]1. How do you use CWMOD?

Home made missions and others' missions...

Quote[/b] ]2. What should CWMOD have more of?

Well...more units obviously (mounted cavalry, uh ?). Blood textures maybe (hard work, yes...). Injury anims (can a guy take a bullet in the leg and go on fighting ? No...). Everything that makes a nice and historic atmosphere...

Quote[/b] ]3. What sort of missions/campaigns you like to see developed?

Definitely historic.

Quote[/b] ]4. How should CWMOD function?

Who can answer that question ? A difficult balance, most of the time only scripts can make ofp look realistic...Weapons accuracy isn't that much essential, as long as it's reasonably possible to play (as it is today).

[Triglav 0]

Interesting proposition injury anims...some moaning to that too...that would be cool. Worth experimenting.

About blood textures. They were purpously not done for a simple reason. We knew OFP could never field as many men as CW battles had. But we try to maximize that by less textures for the units. In blood textures new textures replace regular ones when a guy is hit, therefore in the middle of battles there is double of textures loaded, thus an extra strain on the already troubled memory.

So...after watching Gettysburg and Gods And Generals and seing there are no bloodsprays there, we decided a CW battle can still look like a CW battle without that much blood.

Wounded however would be an excellent addition. After all...in battles, of 100 men hit, only 25 were shot dead, while 70 were only wounded (though an extra 40-50 probably died of infection later). So battlefields were strewn with moaning wounded.

[gavinthecat 0]

Yeah wounded anims etc would be amazing, blood textures tho, i dont think would limit the frame rates for cwmod too much either, but it would be a big task for cwmod to apply them to all the units they'd done so far, (like 1 - 3 wks) probably, so its all about priorities.

[odakenshin 0]

Since the release of this i've been playing solely CWmod with the napoleanic units thrown in for good measure. (though not in the same missions)

1. How do you use CWMOD?

c. I make my own missions and campaigns

2. What should CWMOD have more of?

d. More islands.

3. What sort of missions/campaigns you like to see developed?

a. Historic.

4. How should CWMOD function?

a. As historicly accurate as possible.

Personally i'd love to get some improved animations with the models. I'd love to see a field full of men loading and firing using the full loading drill for a percussion musket, not just the brief ramming animation you have now.

My biggest suggestion is stay with historical accuracy. While some other people might not notice small in accuracies, as a reenactor it really gets on my nerves when things are done incorrectly.

so far though, you boys have done an excellent job!

btw, gavin, are you done working on napoleanic units for good or can we expect to see any more after the next CWmod beta?

[gavinthecat 0]

Hey there well im not working on the cwmod beta Oad, (tho i wish em' luck etc and its looking good etc)

The other mod that covers this period too (and some others slightly before and after) has a thread at

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....3;st=60

As for napoleonic units, well man (how can i be done! i never really started lol, its possible we'll release some unfinished stuff but not much, it was just a french linesmen, young guard, and a brit redcoat -

[ProfTournesol 956]

Quote[/b] ]btw, gavin, are you done working on napoleanic units for good or can we expect to see any more after the next CWmod beta?

New napoleonic mod is quite active thanks to Spad...New Napoleonic Mod

[gavinthecat 0]

1.

If im mucking about its usually to make quick fights in the editor,

2

There should be more work for customisation of islands (and unit improvements, lods, geolods etc)

3

Historic (but in a capacity managable by the ofp engine)

4

Historical (but this is very perceptible)

Yeah new anims will obviously help, and things like honing what there is, to be honest while expanding units i think is useful for cwmod and mission editors etc, i think definately energy should be spent on fine tuning and improving whats there.

and yeah i should add, i only did some napoleonic like 'guy' and some others never released, it is spad, and others that did the napoleonic mod just in case oad u thought that was me etc

[Sepe 1]

1. How do you use CWMOD?

I make quick missions and play missions made by others.

2. What should CWMOD have more of?

All of the above.

3. What sort of missions/campaigns you like to see developed?

Historic and What If

4. How should CWMOD function?

As long as it's fun to play, not forgetting historic accuracy.

[Ceriy 0]

1. How do you use CWMOD?

a. I make quick missions and play around.

b. I only play made missions/campaigns.

2.What should CWMOD have more of?

Everything.

a. More units.

b. More weapons.

c. More buildings/objects.

d. More islands.

3. What sort of missions/campaigns you like to see developed?

a. Historic.

4. How should CWMOD function?

a. As historicly accurate as possible.

[billybob2002 0]

1. How do you use CWMOD?

a. I make quick missions and play around

2. What should CWMOD have more of?

e. all above...

3. What sort of missions/campaigns you like to see developed?

a. Historic.

c. What if?

4. How should CWMOD function?

a. As historical.

[tsalagikola 0]

Any mission makers, have you ran into any strange bugs while making missions. I am making missions for the Chattanooga Island and ran into a strange bug it does not hurt but makes it different, your flagmen just have flags but when they die and respawn sometimes they have a weapons and a flag too it has happened to me a few times so now you are not safe from anyone. So you better watch the flagmen too.

[tsalagikola 0]

OOOOOOOOOOOO CRAP read this news I emailed him and let them know I have 5 DVD's and about 8 CD's of stuff back to 2001 I hope we can helpAT WAR

[bigus_dikus 0]

Well...........lets see

keep it historical.............(done)

all this MOD is missing is a playable horse.

the rest of the bugs will be worked out.

(ie:bayonets etc)

I still say it's the best MOD out there!

bigus

[General Barron 0]

Here I am again, popping back into this thread as I like to do every so often. I haven't played the latest version of the mod yet (just 1.1), so that may affect my answers:

1. How do you use CWMOD?

Well, I'd love to actually play missions in it, but there weren't any SP ones around last I checked. I tried the MP ones on LAN with my bro, but it was extremely buggy. I suspect that is due to the PUKF bayonets, which IIRC are going to be replaced with better ones? (Or already have?)

I'd like to make mission with it as well, but I think it is just a tad short on some things, and I'm not entirely sure on how to make a CW mission in OFP (more later).

2. What should CWMOD have more of?

The way I see it, you already have a good amount of units, so making more should be lowest priority. If anything I'd like to see more civillians. You have a good amount of weapons too, although I'd like to see some special weapons like dynamite and bombs (grenades) as I've mentioned earlier. And Gettysburg island is awesome (way beyond my expectations), so I don't think new islands will really add much.

As a mission maker, I think the main things you need to add are more objects. That way I can customize the environment, since I don't like relying on the pre-placed island objects (no offense island editors). Specifically, dirt ramparts and other objects to build forts and defenses with are CRUCIAL.

Another important thing to add would be more artillery options (different ammo types i.e. grapeshot; some different size guns; and the historically-insignificant-but-just-plain-cool Gatling Gun). You should also think about making the artillery UA compatible, or atleast include some type of script so that it can shoot beyond line-of-sight. As it stands now it is fairly useless IMO.

3. What sort of missions/campaigns you like to see developed?

Mostly SP missions, as I have yet to see one. I'd like historic missions, but I don't really know how a standard CW battle would work in OFP. It certainly wouldn't work to have the player be a private in the middle of a 100-man infantry line, trading shots with the other guys. No one would play OFP that way. So I'm hard pressed to think of how a CW mission could work in OFP.

One obvious solution would be to make the player be a colonel or other ranking officer. Making him focus on moving his men around instead of shooting. Problem is that would be hard to create, especially to make the AI react properly.

Another mission-type that might work is a CW "blackops" style mission. Make the player infiltrate an enemy fort or town, set some dynamite, assassinate some officer, or steal some battle plans, and get out. Not entirely realistic (to my knowledge), but it would work well in OFP.

4. How should CWMOD function?

It has to be a balance between realism and gameplay. Just like in my example above, a 100% realistic simulation of being a CW private isn't going to be much fun most of the time. So although you should try to be historically accurate, don't let that get in the way of good gameplay.

For instance weapons...

I totally agree with your statement that most OFP weapons are way too accurate. However, I was frustrated with the incredible inaccuracy of the weapons in v1.1. I'd be standing literally 5m away from someone and miss them. That just feels too darn unfair.

What I would suggest is that you change the "aimPrecision" value in the anim config of your units. This determines how much the unit's hands "wobble" in that stance.

With a higher "wobble", it makes it especially difficult for the player to aim accurately. This way he doesn't feel cheated by having the pointer clearly over the target, yet having the bullet fly off into oblivion. Another great thing about wobble is that it makes aiming harder the farther away the target is. If you had a 100% accurate weapon, it would still be incredibly difficult to hit at 300+ meters with the right amount of wobble. But at 10 meters it will still be easy to hit a guy in front of you. The same can't be said about a ton of dispersion.

Don't up the wobble too high though, or the AI will rarely shoot, since it doesn't think it has a good shot. Try 2-3x the current values for starters.

So basically, you should have a combination of aim-wobble and weapon dispersion. Too much wobble and the AI won't shoot; too much dispersion and the player feels cheated. But using a combination, you should be able to get the amount of dispersion you are looking for, without cheating the player.

[/2 cents]

[odakenshin 0]

As a mission maker, I think the main things you need to add are more objects. That way I can customize the environment, since I don't like relying on the pre-placed island objects (no offense island editors). Specifically, dirt ramparts and other objects to build forts and defenses with are CRUCIAL.

*****

Another mission-type that might work is a CW "blackops" style mission. Make the player infiltrate an enemy fort or town, set some dynamite, assassinate some officer, or steal some battle plans, and get out. Not entirely realistic (to my knowledge), but it would work well in OFP.

*****

I totally agree with your statement that most OFP weapons are way too accurate. However, I was frustrated with the incredible inaccuracy of the weapons in v1.1. I'd be standing literally 5m away from someone and miss them. That just feels too darn unfair.

I completely agree with barron about the objects. I think if you could get some ceveaux de fraise and some wicker basket earthworks made it'd be alot more fun when making missions. there could even be a (dare i say?) Petersburg style mission...

As for gameplay, i've found that its more enjoyable and natural for the player to operate with skirmishers. While i do enjoy standing in line and trading shots with the enemy, i am the minority. playing as a skirmisher gives the average ofp player the freedom that they are used to and still a general similarity to modern tactics.

As for the weapons, i beleive they are deadly accurate in trained hands. While reading many accounts from revwar to civil war the officers and other types always tell their men to aim low. Before i had been aiming at center mass like most people. but i tried this out once and my accuracy soared! I can reliably get kills at 100-200 meters consistantly now by aiming at the waist or below...

you be amazed at what you can learn from some dusty old books. It sure surprised me...

[Sepe 1]

Yepster, "aim low" helps. But I haven't seen any inaccuracy anyways. Of course the CWMOD weapons aren't sniper rifles, but I can easily hit a static target with the Enfield up to circa 200 meters and a moving target up to circa 50-100 meters. Depends on weapon of course. Just use the damn ironsights and aim carefully!

Playing CWMOD is not the same as playing OFP. You have totally different tactics, as you can only fire one shot and then reload. That's why I like cities, unlike in other OFP.

"Aim low boys!"

[gavinthecat 0]

Well the new weapons willl have a little more balance i feel personally in the dispersion, while the new optics and (oxy applied) ones i think, seem to give a bit more distinction between weapons, but of course, were working on the island at the mo, but the guns when done, cwmod are getting too,

[Triglav 0]

For instance weapons...

I totally agree with your statement that most OFP weapons are way too accurate. However, I was frustrated with the incredible inaccuracy of the weapons in v1.1. I'd be standing literally 5m away from someone and miss them. That just feels too darn unfair.

What I would suggest is that you change the "aimPrecision" value in the anim config of your units. This determines how much the unit's hands "wobble" in that stance.

Don't up the wobble too high though, or the AI will rarely shoot, since it doesn't think it has a good shot. Try 2-3x the current values for starters.

Good suggestion.

I'll take a look at the wobble thingie.

But only Beta v.1.0 had dispersion so high, you'd miss at 10m.

V.1.1 which you say you are using now has dispersion reduced so that you can hit a soldier 150-200m away. Even further with Sharps and Whitworth rifles.

Only pistols are inacurate, as they actually are. Hard to hit a man even at 5m sometimes.

Current dispersion factors are actually done in comparative relation to modern OFP values for M16 and AK47, so the are quite accurate.

[SPQR 0]

Quote[/b] ]1. How do you use CWMOD?

I make quick missions and play around and I played the current availbale SP missions and campaigns (I'm eagerly waiting for Gettysburg campaign part 2 ).

Quote[/b] ]2. What should CWMOD have more of?

I don't really know the Civil war era and its armaments, so I think you are the ones who know what should be the best choices.

However, I'd like to see maps with streams and rivers (as Bullrun map), horses (a must have, I hope, configurated as tanks and not jeeps, pretty hard to manage with driven by AIs).

Last week, I saw on TV "Ironclads", telling the story of the Virginia (Merrymack) and Monitor duel. It may be fun on map, but are the possibilities of missions worth the quantity of needed work ?

Quote[/b] ]3. What sort of missions/campaigns you like to see developed?

Historic definitively

But I feel that skirmish missions would be fairly more adapted, less CPU consuming and giving more tactical freedom to players.

Quote[/b] ]4. How should CWMOD function?

Actually, I love the current gameplay, even if it's less adapted for Napoleonic Mod, as muskets during this era were indredibly less accurate than those from Civil war era.

[Ceriy 0]

Trailer about Civil War, in RUSSIAN only. "FORT of CORINTH" trailer, by "AL Z@RKAWI"

[tsalagikola 0]

SPQR  like this one Tennessee River and Chickamauga creek The Chattanooga Island also has 14 bridges to fight for on it.

[Triglav 0]

Cool.

Thanks for your replies all!

Well. Back to work for us

[tsalagikola 0]

I am making some missions for the Chattanooga island and need to know, is it best to have hidden objectives [sectors to be captured]or have them marked with a flag?

[dog of war 0]

sorry if i have put this post in wrong section.

trying to download this mod from cwmod site .but i am using a very slow dial up network therefore the complete package 41mb wil take me forever.a reference on the cwmod site state you could download weapons ,troops art etc as seperate items if i read correctly.but does not seem to work for me, maybe this part has been disabled, i just want to try out the individual  parts for now , does any one know of another site where i can do this

                                            thanks