USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[froggyluv 2136]

Much like many other beloved Amendments -Electoral College is part of the Constitution. President also won Popular Vote as well so the point is moot.

[GRS 10]

Three things froggy:

1. Totally irrelevant to what I'm saying.

2. Why do you assume I am trying to rip on the current village idi-... president's standing regarding the popular vote from the recent election? I imagine you know the saying about how assuming makes an ASS out of U and ME?

3. Just because it's in the constitution doesn't make it democratic, which was the discussion we were having: see point number 1.

Or are you just bitter about our previous "conversation"? I said we aren't actually a democracy, -by definition the electoral college alone is proof of that- and you go all subtly snide on me. Perhaps we are some subset of democracy, like... oh, I don't know, a "democratic" federal republic, but a true democracy we are not.

Edited January 27, 2013 by GRS

[-GR-Operative 10]

A country with free elections is a democracy. Regardless of who you voted for, or what might obviously or not be the best choice doesn't make it any less true.

Well, It's actually a representative democracy. You must trust the guy elected will do what the majority thinks is right.

[scrim 1]

Yeah, most democracies are that. It's still a democracy, just a more specific name to it, since not every democracy looks exactly like the other.

[mrcash2009 0]

This is probably going to be the worlds number one worst pun, but I "couldn't help myself" to resist posting this. Its politics (location) and US based so I hope this fits the category:

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/26/found_guilty_of_the_worst_bowel_movement_ever/

Found guilty of the worst bowel movement ever

Imprisoned for pooping. Really. A Maine man gets a week in jail for a terrible No. 2 -- the ruling is a must-read

:butbut:

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

LOL talk about a shitty case;), but its no joke for the guy(even with his medical problem),but getting jailtime for it shows how things are going in the USSA,

last week they had to shoot a 95 year old guy with tazers and beanbags (witch he died off later on)because he resisted getting in a ambulance to go to a old folkes home, he was waving his cane and shoehorn.

[mrcash2009 0]

Its funny but then in some ways it does highlight something. I know about the tazer issue, there have been reported cases in UK since its roll out, the "tazer first ask later" as a tool. Forgetting that paralysing someone mid run or slamming them to the floor into their head via 50,000 volts locking the body might actually cause some harm. The one I saw was the girl in handcuffs running and then tazered while running and head his the ground (no way to put arms out) and she was in a coma.

[nodunit 397]

I'm amazed that this topic fell silent especially given recent events.

There is plenty of political talk to go around especially in light of the government hiatus and various impacts around the country.

No doubt there are mixed opinions and ideals as to why this has happened but naturally it's not going to be one single reason such as health care, always more to it..anywho, for those of you that haven't seen it, this video surfaced a few days ago and really deserves some looking at.

[Tonci87 163]

My explanation: Your politicans are mostly utterly stupid and behave like they are still in kindergarden. That doesn´t make them much different from our politicans

[froggyluv 2136]

My explanation: Your politicans are mostly utterly stupid and behave like they are still in kindergarden. That doesn´t make them much different from our politicans

Wish it was just that simple. Those holding our entire Gov't hostage are only able to do so because they represent a pretty large amount of people in the Right Wing base. The figureheads are always representatives of a peoples...

[scrim 1]

European politicians are every bit as stupid if not worse. The difference is how the system is set up. Most European countries have a political system that lean towards "the winner gets it all", as opposed to the American system, where there's not one, not two, but three different power "levels" to compete about. I suppose that's the reason no one bothers posting about the government shutdown here; No country in the Western world can say they don't have the same, or worse, somewhere on their continent. And for the Eastern and Third world, trading their governments for the US one on shutdown would be an improvement.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I suppose each political system has its pros and cons, but what's less funny is that the US system is playing with the whole world financial stability.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

My explanation: Your politicans are mostly utterly stupid and behave like they are still in kindergarden. That doesn´t make them much different from our politicans

Oh no no no no no - the Senate is for serious debate as this video clearly shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9EX2XkpPgE

[Degman 73]

My explanation: Your politicans are mostly utterly stupid and behave like they are still in kindergarden. That doesn´t make them much different from our politicans

Nope, politicians are (usally) smart people who knows how to control and manipulate the other people (nation). It's not stupid brain what makes them rich and powerful.

[maturin 12]

Degman, you're from a country that hit the reset button with socialism and fascism. So in the case of America, which didn't, don't underestimate the power of privilege, built up over centuries. Combine that with a sort of low cunning born of basic charisma, and you don't need to be smart to enter the power elite. It's just the right sort of type A personality born into the right strata of society that has the resources, self-assurance, self-righteousness and memory of dominance to easily step into a leader's shoes. It's especially when anti-intellectualism lies at the core of you political culture.

[Tonci87 163]

Nope, politicians are (usally) smart people who knows how to control and manipulate the other people (nation). It's not stupid brain what makes them rich and powerful.

Oh yeah, BUsh was such an intelligent man, oh and don´t forget sarah pailin, I could go on like this forever.....

@maturin That is not really true. Many powerfull politicians from the old system remained powerfull politicians after the change (Sadly)

[spooky lynx 73]

But do Bush and Palin alone have any real value and influence on state politics?

[scrim 1]

Well, TBH, Bush' stupidity might've been real, and it might've been him acting stupid to get away with doing stupid shit. As for Sarah Pahlin, she did in the end never get beyond half a term as a senator for Alaska. Her incredible stupidity did wind up losing the election for McCain.

[nodunit 397]

Appears as though the government has been re opened.

http://www.voanews.com/content/congress-passes-bill-avert-default-reopen-us-government/1771311.html

I find it funny that Cruz goes on a small rant about "kicking the can down the road" and then specifically targets obamacare, as if there aren't hundreds of other needless expenditures (*cough Afghanistan), I won't be surprised if we see a repeat on Feb 2 of next year.

On the flip side, mid term elections next year so it'll be fun to see who gets the least numbers of votes now that they pissed everyone off.

Worse yet is that its not just the US that was effected but our reputation and confidence in finances and currency.

Rumor has it that this was actually a back door deal, speaker John Boehner lied that there were no agreements when a few days ago both parties were ready to come to an agreement. If he had his way I'm sure we'd still be on shut down.

And lets not forget House Resolution 368

Edited October 17, 2013 by NodUnit

[froggyluv 2136]

Well Cruz will stay strong with his Tea Party constituents more than ever after this -I'm more curious where moderate "mainstream" conservatives will go from here. If the Tea Party were merely deficit hawks, they'd have my full support -where they lose me is there rabid "We are our Founding Fathers", down with the gov't, bring on the next Civil War, Obama is a Muslim terrorist/Communist, lets let corporations Frack our environment up the a$$, shut down the EPA, never compromise with anything remotely progressive, bow down to any and all things Koch Bros - craziness. I've been to their rallies and can safely say a good portion of them are straight up batsh$t crazy.

[froggyluv 2136]

By the way, if your not familiar with Fracking, highly recommend watching this 1 hour long award winning documentary about how it threatens all of our drinking waters and the measures to which Government will exempt Oil & Gas from environmental protection laws

GASLAND: http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/gasland_2010/

It's low res quality but free and well worth the watch.

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

yeah, a nasty fillty bussines that fracking, and wont bring us anything good. it pollutes the ground & drinkingwater ,destabilizes the ground(offcourse no links between fracking and all the sinkholes in the US)nasty toxins and chemicals are used to pump in the hole to force out the gas,then they pupm out this toxic slush and puth it back in the ground at other locations. its crazy, and now in europe its getting started aswell, with test sites in UK,holland,possible Belgium,...(dont know of others but there will be)

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

By the way, if your not familiar with Fracking, highly recommend watching this 1 hour long award winning documentary about how it threatens all of our drinking waters and the measures to which Government will exempt Oil & Gas from environmental protection laws. It's low res quality but free and well worth the watch.

I thought that one was regarded as very inaccurate? Eg the lighting your tapwater on fire part was found to be the home owners own fault because the well on the property had been dug through several coal seams? It's common in Colorado for well water to contain methane for this very reason and in other areas well water water contains high levels of methane after earthquakes. People have been lighting water on fire for centuries - George Washington took an interest in "Burning Springs" in Virginia:

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu251/Rebecca57/WV%20Markers/Kanawha/BurningSprings.jpg

The burning garden hose was found to be faked and was proven in court - they attached the hose to a gas tap as part of a strategy to get media attention and admitted the fact in emails, :

http://www.barnettshalenews.com/documents/2012/legal/Court%20Order%20Denial%20of%20Lipsky%20Motion%20to%20Dismiss%20Range%20Counterclaim%202-16-2012.pdf

Busted........lol. "conspiracy to defame"

[maturin 12]

There's a lot of BS around fracking and its environmental effects.

Thing is, it's not the technique that's to blame so much as the execution.

Mining is filthy dirty and horribly regulated. There's no accountability and everyone gets screwed. Mining interests generally capture the governments of the states where they operate, and the expansion of fracking with a (marginally) more hazardous method is still bad news.

We need a whole new regulatory regime on fracking, because even if geological and engineering knowhow can make the process safe and lead the US to energy independence, the mining companies sure fucking can't. Does fracking pollute groundwater? Not if it's done right. But it isn't done right.

[froggyluv 2136]

I thought that one was regarded as very inaccurate? Eg the lighting your tapwater on fire part was found to be the home owners own fault because the well on the property had been dug through several coal seams? It's common in Colorado for well water to contain methane for this very reason and in other areas well water water contains high levels of methane after earthquakes. People have been lighting water on fire for centuries - George Washington took an interest in "Burning Springs" in Virginia:

The burning garden hose was found to be faked and was proven in court - they attached the hose to a gas tap as part of a strategy to get media attention and admitted the fact in emails, :

Busted........lol. "conspiracy to defame"

That may be true but one case hardly discredits what the film illustrates -that being, Oil and Gas industry's claim that there is not one proven case of fracking contaminating groundwater. As is the case with any whistleblower especially of the "1 man with a camera" variety, you can expect a certain amount of slant. With the same assurance, you can also count on the industry under the microscope to rebut with 100 million dollar discrediting campaigns such as the 80 million dollar hiring of Hill & Knowlton PR firm, the exact firm hired by Big Tobbaco to discredit the whistleblowers and half truthers. The amount of spin the documentary maker creates as compared to Big Oil is equivalent to the spin of a top to the turbine of a 767.

In 2009, members of ANGA (America's Natural Gas Alliance), a lobbying organization for the gas industry, spread $80 million in funds across several agencies that included Hill & Knowlton to try to influence decisions on the process of gas extraction known as hydraulic fracturing[16] Similar to the strategy used for the pro-cigarette campaigns run in the 50s and 60s, the tactic the company is using for the issue is to simply raise doubt in the public's mind about the dangers of the fracking process

-WIKI

Tom Ridge who was the Governer of my home state of Pennsylvania and then later the head of Homeland Security is now employed as a $900,000 year consultant and lobbyist for the Big Oil/Gas trying to influence access to the mammoth Marcellus Shale in that region. There are alleged reports of meetings in which PSYOPS returning from the wars are being used to infilitrate, monitor and spread misinformation to "attack" groups and individuals opposing fracking and are even heard via recording to refer to these groups as "insurgents". Others alledge that Tom Ridge, using his power and connection to Homeland Security has had lists of environmental groups collecting, distributed to law enforcement to be placed on an EcoTerrorist watchlist. Far fetched? I don't believe so.

It's clear that there is a real lack of regulation here and strong evidence that even the regulating powers are at the very least, strongly influenced to the worst, straight up compromised. The movie is important as without a strong light shining on the industry, we'd have only the Gov't to protect us from lack of regulation abuse. The fact that the entire industry is exempt from the Safe Drinking Water Act and has no obligation to reveal individual ingredients of their chemical mixture but are allowed the strong legal umbrella of "proprietary mixture" as to exempt their liability of individual toxins and known carcinogens is telling.

Edited October 18, 2013 by froggyluv