Help me understand.

[BoweryBaker 0]

Hell we basically did to Iraq what Japan did during Pearl Harbor, how could we be surprised at the backlash? I do however support the Afghani war to capture bin laden, yet do not support bombing civillian homes.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]There you go: "there is no good or evil". That statement gets right down to the root of the bullshit. You mean to tell me that flying a plane into a building full of officeworkers is morally equivalent to bombing Al-Queida training camps in Afganistan?

No, but its not a hell of a lot different than dropping 1000lb bombs in the middle of residential neighborhoods to try and kill one man, and then claim that we are trying to minimize civilian casualties.

Quote[/b] ]It all depends on what contract you and the company agree on when you sign up with them. If they agree to pay for such expensive diseases at the time you sign on, then they can't just "expel you".

No actually they can, and have. Take a closer look at the state of healthcare in this nation, where HMOs can deny life-saving surgeries and treatments.

[Schoeler 0]

That stance on healthcare is extremely ignorant.

They CAN and WILL expel you if you don't have insurance.

I recently lost my brother to leukemia. he had excellent coverage, but there were families there that were told to take their loved one home to die because they lacked the coverage.

There are also families who think they are covered, pay a lot for coverage and then get screwed by their HMO's.

Healthcare in this country has reached the crisis level. We are getting behind third world nations in coverage. Costa Rica has better healthcare than the U.S.

[PLRSniper 3]

I did not read all posts in this thread...

But as i Swede i think of America as...

A big island absolutely full of weapons but not as many men with the brains to use them correctly...

A weapon today is not meant to kill anymore...

It's supposed to say:

Im here watching what you are doing...

And if i see you doing anything wrong we will apprehend you...

And then if anyone find's it smart enough to fire at the peaceful force they have choosen their destiny because the majority of humans on this earth will stand behind a peaceful sullotion and award the peacekeeping force for their strength.

Dont ever bomb or fire a gun at a person that dont shoot at or bomb you first... THAT INCLUDES CIVILIANS!

Chicken shit Tomahawk launching badass i say...

Why stand 5000 Miles offcoast with a big ship and lob explosives inland when you can stand at the frontline with hundreds of tanks and just sit and wait for every poor bastard to run home and go to bed?

And just walk right in to Iraq for example and fetch mister saddam without a single shot fired...

Any smart human would crap his pants when facing 100 fully upgraded M1 Tanks... (Well i get an erection but thats me )

anyhow... Why be an agressor when you can be smart and just give them bastards a grim look and say... Youre coming with me...

Just some word's from a swede... LOL

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

So I hear people hate Americans because of George Bush.

How retarded.  I did'nt know I am George Bush, I did'nt know My Family is George Bush, I did'nt know John Kerry is George Bush.

So if people hate Americans because of George Bush, I think some people need to have surgery and get their monkey brains replaced with some updated 21st century human brains.

 Okay... you are not Bush... but Kerry isnt so much different, is he?

Come on, whether you want it or not but Bush has been elected by more than 50% of the americans to represent the country. And polls show they agree he is doing a good job.

But seriously, dont you see the gap that has been created between us (europeans) and you (americans) since this man entered the white house? Why is that? Actually it is very human that we support those that have been hurt and hate those that have caused it. So a day after 911 we probably all thought that this desaster would bring the western world together and unite our aims.

But now a few years later, the opposite has happened. Bin Laden has won that battle! A lot of mess in the arab world, US is blamed, europe is humiliated!

But looking back it wouldnt have been so difficult. Instead of sending 180.000 soldiers into Iraq those could have been screening Afghanistan and definetly would have caught Bin Laden by now. Bush could have waited for the Inspectors to fully search Iraq, he could have forced the UN to develop a strategy that slowly withdraws Saddam from power. I am sure some countries would have even agreed to send military support if they wouldnt have been rushed into the decision. Take Germany for example. If Bush would have waited one more month then the war in Iraq couldnt have been abused for election purposes. Maybe even a different party in germany would have won the election. Our troops were in Afghanistan so what spoke against us joing or supporting a war in Iraq?

But country after country was humiliated with insensitive insults a la "old europe" a la "freedom fries" a la "coalition of the weasals". There was a whole P&R campaign on the way to ridicule european nations. Only because they said "we dont have enough evidence that there are WMD".

Those countries that finally moved with you into Iraq did it because of A: they trusted your Intel, and B, they were promised economical gains and C, because they are you real friends that even follow blindly. But believe me, the next time you are under attack, countries will refrain from blindly following your leaders. After 9/11 Bush had the support of the entire world. Now, 3 years later, the US is being looked down at as never before. On the other hand european exchange students in american boarding schools are being insulted on a daly basis.  Politically this is a big fuck up and politics is supposed to be Bush's job. Who elected Bush? 50% of the american people! Who would reelect Bush? 50% of the people. In other words either 50% of the americans like the international humiliation, dont see it, or dont realy care! That is shocking. In germany cancellors were reelected in the past only because they were able to turn enemies into friends (Helmut Kohl) and not the other way around.

[Frisbee 0]

Up until a while after 9/11, I was a blind America fanboy, brainwashed by Hollywood, and still unaware of it.

Then came 9/11, everyone and their (speaking) dog said "Let's kicks those SOB's asses!". (I sat and watched live coverage, and did indeed hope the culprits would get what they deserved)

Then Iraq, US doesn't want to go after guys who were responsible for 9/11, but instead go line their pockets?

Big eye-opener that was.

All my reasons have been more eloquently stated by Albert and denoir, I'm gonna make like Pathy and mooch off them.

(Oh and Pathy, jolly good show (:p) explaining the economics, the USA is not the wealthiest, but perhaps (one of?) the most influential nation in the world)

[The Real Armstrong 0]

Quote[/b] ]You mean like Bush? He has more civilian blood on his hands than bin Laden. IMO they're both religious kooks. Bin Laden beats Bush by the fact that he is explicitly out to kill civilians, but Bush on the other hand tops him in numbers and has infinitely more resources. I'd like to see a world that is both Bin Laden-free and Bush-free.

Quote[/b] ]And also, face it. There is no good/evil, only specific agendas that people go about realizing in different ways.

There you go: "there is no good or evil". That statement gets right down to the root of the bullshit. You mean to tell me that flying a plane into a building full of officeworkers is morally equivalent to bombing Al-Queida training camps in Afganistan? Oh, but we can't judge, I forgot. If I rape some 8 year old girl, then chop her head off, that isn't an evil act. It is just "my own agenda that I am realizing in a different way". What a load of horseshit. I'm sorry, but when somebody starts feeding me that line of crap, and then tries to tell me how the US is wrong to do this or that, I have to shake my head in amazement.

I think he means there is no pure evil. Somebody does not do things like that just because hes evil. He did it to show that he didn't tolerated the americans. Or something similar, I'm no shrink.

[Pathy 0]

All my reasons have been more eloquently stated by Albert and denoir, I'm gonna make like Pathy and mooch off them.

(Oh and Pathy, jolly good show (:p) explaining the economics, the USA is not the wealthiest, but perhaps (one of?) the most influential nation in the world)

Its the best way god forbid i ever have to go head to head in a debate with either of them

And thanks, i do have a few good moments.

Quote[/b] ]There you go: "there is no good or evil". That statement gets right down to the root of the bullshit. You mean to tell me that flying a plane into a building full of officeworkers is morally equivalent to bombing Al-Queida training camps in Afganistan? Oh, but we can't judge, I forgot. If I rape some 8 year old girl, then chop her head off, that isn't an evil act. It is just "my own agenda that I am realizing in a different way". What a load of horseshit. I'm sorry, but when somebody starts feeding me that line of crap, and then tries to tell me how the US is wrong to do this or that, I have to shake my head in amazement.

I think he's refering to the fact that TBA presents everything as a battle of good vs evil without trying to understand the true root of the problem. Saying everything is totally black and white is also total bullshit.....

Bin Laden and his colleagues did NOT attack the world trade centre because they were simply evil and decided "hmmm lets do an evil act today.....", have a little brainstorming session and think "If we fly a couple of planes into the World trade centre we will kill as many people as possible....good-oh, nothing like doing an evil deed to get your spirits up...".....they did it because they have an agenda, and if you dont try to understand why they have that agenda, then you can never truly fix the problem.....

[GoOB 0]

Quote[/b] ]And also, face it. There is no good/evil, only specific agendas that people go about realizing in different ways.

There you go: "there is no good or evil". That statement gets right down to the root of the bullshit. You mean to tell me that flying a plane into a building full of officeworkers is morally equivalent to bombing Al-Queida training camps in Afganistan? Oh, but we can't judge, I forgot. If I rape some 8 year old girl, then chop her head off, that isn't an evil act. It is just "my own agenda that I am realizing in a different way". What a load of horseshit. I'm sorry, but when somebody starts feeding me that line of crap, and then tries to tell me how the US is wrong to do this or that, I have to shake my head in amazement.

I haven't even written a word about the US trying to stop terrorism. I have simply stated that you have done something to provoke terrorist attacks on your own state. It's your assumption, that I'm trying to put down on the US by saying that nothing is black or white.

And please, don't bring sexcrimes and murder into this. World politics does as far as I know not involve these things quite yet.

EDIT: Pathy also said what I wanted to say above, didn't read past your last post Barron

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Why do people hate the US?

They've (the US gov, not the people) caused more suffering and performed more terrorist acts than the terrorists they claim to be chasing.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Pathy said it correctly: Al Quaida (as stupid as they may be) indeed have an agenda and each action is part of a global strategy.

BUT, please do not blame the US for 911. Al Quaida simply stroke the US because it is considered as the center of loose western cultures and the supporters of Israel.

Al Quaida does not fight for the poor and weak in the muslim society. They strive for power and blood just like Saddam did. 911 wasnt a revenge for mean US politics in the middle East but simply a cruel savagery aimed to target christians.

Al Quaida does not defend muslims otherwise they wouldnt blow up hospitals and definetly NOT muslim pilgrims.

So all in all Al Quaida is a pretty "black and white" enemy: evil, guilty and dangerous. But THAT is what makes it so dangerous for the US. Many americans believe that if the enemy is sooo goddamn evil then he must be easy to identify. Us against them, US against terorists, Freedom against supression. And they dont understand why muslims would support Bin Laden even if he blows up their sons and daughters.

And consequently they have problems to understand that if the EU sais:

"careful, this middle east is a cultural minefield, we have to analyse it first to forsee cause and effect"

then it does not mean

"we are not with you, we are against you".

But instead, they declare "war on teror" which is just as smart as declaring "war on Tornados in Florida" and say "we can do it alone". Fine with me, but dont blame us for hating you! France may be smaller than the US, but listening to their experiences would have helped you in Iraq just like it would have helped you in Vietnam. Cause they can say: "been there, seen that, done that". Americans! to learn from your mistakes first means to accept them.

[SpecOp9 0]

So I hear people hate Americans because of George Bush.

How retarded.  I did'nt know I am George Bush, I did'nt know My Family is George Bush, I did'nt know John Kerry is George Bush.

So if people hate Americans because of George Bush, I think some people need to have surgery and get their monkey brains replaced with some updated 21st century human brains.

Quote[/b] ]So I hear people hate Americans because of George Bush.

I think that the people here tried to say that they hate USA becouse of bush not citizens of USA...

Ohhh, ok

So lets have terrorists fly airplanes into civilian buildings. I'm sure that reflects them hating Bush instead of the citizens...

[xawery 0]

Incidentally, there is a very good book themed in a vein similar to this topic: "The Eagle's Shadow: why America fascinates and infuraties the world", by Mark Hertsgaard. I have heard him speak on several occasions and I must say he is a very reasonable and level-headed individual. The book is written in a rather cautious, some would even say timid manner, but it is this very trait that makes it so good: it should prove palatable even to the most devout believers in USA's holiness and Infallibility. It cannot be cast aside as "US bashing" or "un-American drivel".

It is a thought-through, eloquent alternative to inflammatory ego-trips like Fahrenheit 9/11.

[The Real Armstrong 0]

So I hear people hate Americans because of George Bush.

How retarded.  I did'nt know I am George Bush, I did'nt know My Family is George Bush, I did'nt know John Kerry is George Bush.

So if people hate Americans because of George Bush, I think some people need to have surgery and get their monkey brains replaced with some updated 21st century human brains.

Quote[/b] ]So I hear people hate Americans because of George Bush.

I think that the people here tried to say that they hate USA becouse of bush not citizens of USA...

Ohhh, ok

So lets have terrorists fly airplanes into civilian buildings.  I'm sure that reflects them hating Bush instead of the citizens...

What do you mean by that exactly?

[Pathy 0]

I don't think HE is sure what he means  

Look, they would have done 9/11 the same again even if Bush wasnt there.....as Albert Schweizer said, Al-Queda's strike was a response to the Israel situation. The thing with Bush is he now seems to be attempting to inflame=true the whole of the Arab world, even if he doesnt mean it, which is a course of action that has dissillusioned and disgusted many, including many in America.

Flying buildings into planes isn't an indication of Bush's popularity (remember, back in those days we didn't think of Bush as this madman), its an indication of USA's foreign policy gone wrong. But what Bush HAS done is make the situation even worse!

[xawery 0]

Flying buildings into planes? This is just begging for a cartoon:)

/edit: damn code...

[ozanzac 0]

So I hear people hate Americans because of George Bush.

How retarded.  I did'nt know I am George Bush, I did'nt know My Family is George Bush, I did'nt know John Kerry is George Bush.

So if people hate Americans because of George Bush, I think some people need to have surgery and get their monkey brains replaced with some updated 21st century human brains.

Quote[/b] ]So I hear people hate Americans because of George Bush.

I think that the people here tried to say that they hate USA becouse of bush not citizens of USA...

Ohhh, ok

So lets have terrorists fly airplanes into civilian buildings.  I'm sure that reflects them hating Bush instead of the citizens...

What a classy arguement.

So what your saying, SpecOp9, is that everyone who doesn't currently like your president, hates America and it's people; and that everyone of those people who 'hate' America is a terrorist; and that every 'terrorist' has the desire to fly airplanes into 'civilian' buildings.

Gee-wiz. An extremely large proportion of the population of the world, if not the majority, can now be put under the label of terrorist.  :rollseyes:

How retarded.

Couldn't have said it better myself, because if this doesn't ring alarm bells that say: "Shit, maybe there's something wrong with the way America 'does business' around the world." Then I don't know what would.

But seeing as I'm now a terrorist, the natural thing to do for me would be to...wait for it (the election) and if nothing changes in the way you do business, (ie, the monkey leader isn't replaced with a 21st century leader) it would probably resort to me, and some of my terrorist colleagues, those colleagues being the rest of the world to wait for it... plot a terrorist act...

Wow....I couldn't imagine that, not with the department of <s>fear and propoganda</s> homeland security looking out for you with pretty warning colours and breeches of some of your basic rights

[JAP 2]

Thanks for the read all hehe, my oh my, it s euro vs USA season again.

I m on holidays bored to death so i "enjoyed" the read.

What strikes me a bit is the fact that US ppl act like we always "hated" them ...

I think this negative feeling - cause i think hating is very very overstated - towards the US has just been steadily increasing from Bush's election till now. Before that i dont think there was this ( and you feel it almost with any European you talk to ) general negative feelings towards the US government.

This feeling isnt against the US people, but against the US foreign politics of Bush.

Before 9/11 the first thing he did was torpedo the Kyoto agreement, then he went on revitalising the starwars thingy, etc etc ... ,generally coming back on things agreed on before him. Eurotrash no like things like that !

What i m very surprised by is that Bush isnt that far behind in the polls or level, or ahead, dunno now, i m on holidays.

That man isolated the USA and its people, made it maybe 100X as dangerous abroad for US travellers as before, almost singlehandedly wrecked the fragile "peace" we knew (or at least safe feelings we had ;-) ) in most parts of the world, and so much more ... AND YOU STILL WOULD BE PREPARED TO VOTE FOR HIM ??

That makes me (and alot others ) wonder how US people think .. or dont think.

While in most euro elections all ruling parties were slaughtered by us .. the voters for their actions or lack of actions during their last term (much of them USA related ), you wonderfull people are going to reward Bush with votes for his actions ....

That s just beyond words !

But there is one lightpoint ... as macho egocentric most US people might be ( US number 1 !!! ) it strikes me that more and more start to notice a change in behaviour towards them ... that s already something ... aint it ?

My 2 cents, not nearly as well put as denoir and the others.

Cheers

[denoir 0]

Europe and US in aircraft aid row [bBC]

Quote[/b] ]

The European Commission (EC) and President George Bush have engaged in a war of words about subsidies given to aircraft makers Airbus and Boeing.

President George Bush threatened to complain to the World Trade Organisation (WTO) about subsidies given to aircraft maker, Airbus.

In response, the EC raised questions about subsidies paid to Boeing. Both sides say that the current rules governing subsidies given to aircraft makers need to be revised.

Strong emotions

The issue of state aid has become increasingly emotive as competition in the industry has increased.

Airbus delivered 305 planes last year, 24 more than Boeing. More than 40,000 Boeing workers have lost their jobs in the past three years and it is only this year that Boeing has started to recover from its post-September 11 losses.

The current row erupted last week when President Bush, who is in the midst of campaigning for re-election, was speaking to Boeing workers and threatened to take Airbus to the WTO.

"I've instructed US trade representative Bob Zoellick to inform European officials in his September meeting that we think these (Airbus) subsidies are unfair and that he should pursue all options to end these subsidies, including bringing a WTO case, if need be," he said.

The EC responded that both sides need to rethink the support they offer.

"Any discussion needs to address both direct support, as granted by European governments to Airbus in the form of loans, and indirect support, as provided by the US government to Boeing," an EC spokeswoman said.

Agreed subsidies

The rules on government support to plane makers are contained in a 1992 aircraft agreement between the EU and the US . Europe had wanted to revise this agreement in 1997 but the US rejected the proposed changes, the EC said.

Under the current agreement, European governments can lend money to cover up to 33% of plane manufacturers' research and development costs. This money is repayable with interest within 17 years. Airbus's American critics claim the company does not have to pay the loans back if the planes are not profitable.

The same agreement allows the American government to provide indirect support, through NASA or military programmes, to Boeing. This can amount to 3% of turnover for the entire US commercial aircraft industry.

Questions have also been raised about the $3.2bn incentive package offered by Washington state to secure the assembly plant for Boeing's new 7E7 Dreamliner plane.

The above is just a recent example of something that has been going on for a couple of years now: a semi-open trade war between the EU and the US. And this has more to do with the EU than with the US. The latter has as mentioned before, always engaged in various forms of protection of its business assets. Through a combination of political perssure, subsidies etc American companies have always managed to beat the open market system. It's good for business so that winning concept hasn't changed.

On the other hand the European countries have until recently not been able to compete. Individually we were too weak and there was no structure in place to allow such cooperation. So America had a very strong edge against European companies.

The EU has changed that. In fairly short time it has become economically the equal of America (even surpassed it in some areas) and hence serious competition. In short bad news for America. Europe now of course does the same thing that America did - protects its companies against the free market through politics, subsidies etc

It's bad news for America becuase suddenly it has gone from being completely dominant to actually have to compete with somebody. Europe on the other hand is not very happy about the existing infrastructure that America has in place. So they're sueing each other left and right. Basically they want the same thing.

While this may not affect the popular opinon of the US in Europe, it does have an indirect effect.

My point being, that not everything is related to Bush. I think that a lot of the current tension comes from the fact that the EU is defining its role in the world right now. And we're talking about an economic giant - the world's largest economy. America is bound to be in the way and the EU is bound to step on some toes.

[Akira 0]

The US has complained about Airbuses seemingly goverment subsidation for as long as Airbus has been around, but more loudly since Boeing lost its dominance.

[DarkLight 0]

You know, i'm sure that a lot of ppl think that they're being hated while that isn't the truth at all.

Americans seem to have this very strange connection with their government, if you are negative about the government, everybody will think that you hate america and its citizens.

Personally, i don't give a fuck if someone says that my country/government sucks. I'll probably just smile at you while you bash the great monarchy where i live in.

Seriously, why should i give a damn?

It's strange that you guys take it so personal. Some ppl are saying "what a horrible president you americans have" and you guys think we hate you...

Notice one thing, every time we have one of these "hate america" discussions it always gets kinda warm in here and in the end everyone's flaming eachother. What do we european morons bitch about? That's right, we bitch about your government, not about your country or your inhabitants...

There's a big difference you know...

[DarkLight 0]

I found some interesting crap on the net, posted by some dick in a gay marriage discussion... (that sounds weird)

I've never heard a European say stuff like this, NEVER, all the people that i've met here are tolerant towards eachother and pretty much nobody cares if you're gay or not.

This guy is absolutely shocking...

That's what i do hate about SOME americans (i repeat: SOME americans), they sometimes seem to think like we Europeans did 200 years ago.  Same for the war on Iraq, everybody is soooo damn proud that they used deeds instead of words.  What the fuck is there to be proud about?  It's the 21st century for fucks sake, can't we at least TRY to solve things like grown ups?  Oh well... this belongs in another thread so i'll shut up for now...

Also something that irritates me a lot and that you rarely see here in Europe is the extreme love for God and that stuff.  It's like those patriots, sure it's ok if you like your country but there are limits.  I've seen ppl dancing with rattlesnakes and crap like that, what the fuck?  A snake is not an animal to play with, i'd rather fight a rottweiler than a rattlesnake...

Oh well if they want to play with their life fine by me... as long as their fanatic behaviour doesn't affect me...

And all this Gob bless america stuff, sheesh... No offense, but if god could pick any country then i seriously doubt he'd say i bless americaaaa. He woudln't say IIIII bless europe either so DONT START BASHING!

oh well

I don't have any problems with anyone's religion, i don't care if you're a christian, a muslim or if you think that god is a cat with 7 legs and no head.  Personally i don't give a fuck... as long as you have fun...

But just look at that last comment that i posted, i hear this soooo fucking much and i think it's incredibly irritating.

I don't understand why there are americans that think like this.  In my eyes the guy that posted this is the biggest fuck out there, he should be shipped to france to die (read what he said before commenting on this please )

Why the hell do people think like that?  Is it because of brainwashing?  You gotta admit that there's a lot of brainwashing going on in America.  I don't mean that in a bad way so stay calm...  

You know, i'm absolutely NOT trying to say that all americans are like this, so please, if you're american and you read this don't freak out and start bashing me or something like that.  

Someone asked a question and i reply.

I know that there are plenty of normal ppl out there too, i just think it's scary that ppl like this actually exist... and that they are so determined...

Quote[/b] ]"Gay marriage is an affront to humanity, and anyone who stands up for it is clearly either gay or a girly-man. My proposal is to ship all those homos over to France where they can frolic around or do whatever queers do, then die. It's about goddamn time somebody stood up for good old fashioned American values, I've had about enough with that sissy liberal crap those other nations are crapping out"

Reply: "I think you mean "protection." Who will protect us from the godless sodomities if this is leagalized huh? Think about it!! A man could be sticking his dick in another man's ass IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD!! Then you can kiss your wife goodbye once the gay consipricay recruits her to their side (because we all know women have, by their nature, less willpower and strength than us good christien men) along with all the other women, we wont have anyone left to marry and then BOOM civilazation destroyed just like that."

"Exactly. You might as well kiss that new girlfriend goodbye.

Speaking of which, I hope you aren't having any pre-marital sex, because God is watching and you'll go to hell if you do"

"Shut the hell up, you pansy secular humanist. I don't need abortion-loving sissies like you to give me your liberal propaganda. "

":rolleyes: muslims, youre going to hell anyway so why should i listen to you. Unless you're willing to give up your false religion and join the Good side..."

[The Real Armstrong 0]

Can I have the scource to that comment? Man, that was sooo... gay.

[havocsquad 0]

Bar none, I can personally testify that the majority of the reason why morons get elected in the U.S. is because most dumb ass Americans are too lazy to find the "facts", not listen to just ear pleasing spin and biased "truths".

They put blind faith in individuals before gathering the facts, analyzing them, then making a serious and informed political decision on who they would vote for.

I feel Americans got what they asked for, some idiot in the president's chair who was not experienced enough in domestic AND not experienced enough in responsible foreign policy.   Notice the word, responsible.

They think that if they hire someone conservative that is not really charasmatic, mostly just very sociable to his base.  Just because someone appears like a "good guy" don't mean shit in the world.   Too many Americans expect almost a "normal guy" image but a "emperor" qualities with a touch of dictatorship leadership.

I even asked a fellow 25 year old man why he supports G W Bush?  He couldn't give me a direct answer why, only saying that he's a strong leader and tough on terror.

That explaination wouldn't sell a bananna to a chimp, much less to an citizen adaquately informed on U.S. politics.

I guess I should have asked for a more specific reason then, but I just sighed in annoyance.

/My two cents here:

I swear U.S. political elections will eventually turn into a high tech cow herding-like facility, and coax people to enter them.  Then group them up and almost brainwash them with simple messages to reinforce control over individual reason.  Sounds like something the Republicans would kill for, literally.    

/End of My two cents.

A good percentage of Texans really hated him as governor there.  He seriously F***d up in certain areas in Texas, sadly he moved up into the presidency.

Not enough people did their homework before election in 2000, so don't look for others to blame when you vote for someone that just might look nice and have some/many common values on the surface.

That's why the issue of abortion and stem cell research is such of a big issue, a president's job is to protect, defend, and obey the U.S. consitution, not add religious context or religious interpretation of policy and law into the government.  

Laws and policies must be fair and equal to all, no matter what your beliefs are.  

I believe abortion is wrong in all aspects except maybe in the mother's life at stake.  However, if woman doesn't believe in abortions, don't have one.  Just because Jesus or God believes it is wrong doesn't make it right to stop a Buddhist, Athesist, or a Hindu to have an abortion.

The day mainstream religious beliefs gets away with breaking the U.S. consitution and continues to do so regularly is when Americans might have to start hoarding supplies and guard your firearms with your life.

Religious Extremism in America is not impossible, far from it with the tensions high between those with the liberal and highly conservative sides of society.  Soon these sides will definitely clash on a large scale, then chaos will have a new meaning.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]I believe abortion is wrong in all aspects except maybe in the mother's life at stake

What about rape? What about a girl that is not capable to financially support a child?

I would totally understand a law to ban abortion if the society is there to support the woman. But in the US the social welfare is not realy kind to people that are in need. A women getting pregnant and loosing her job would probably end up homeless if there is no family around to support her. Is that what you want?

In Germany abortion is allowed but it brings along certain obligations: first you have to consult a so called family advisor with who you openly discusses advantages and disadvantages of abortion. And if the girl then decides to give birth to the child she will be supported financially by the government. This ensures that the baby is not born in the trainstation or a shelter for homeless people, but has a fair chance to live a good life.

Think twice before you judge on the issue.