Damage models

[Gen.Carnage 0]

has been said before, but just take a look at these:

*taken a link out, i had posted before, for having too high gore level*

http://homepage.mac.com/ninodus....1D8.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/ninodus....1D8.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/ninodus....1D8.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/ninodus....1D8.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/ninodus....1D8.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/ninodus....1D8.jpg

in order to do this 'breakup' of the models after/during  destruct, i suggest the models would be given extra partnames in geometry lod.. those parts that have names assigned to them would fly away if the unit is destroyed, or would fly off on certain damage levels.

each part should have its own weight set, so that the engine can throw it away accordingly with its weight.

It would also be possible then to take chunks out of a tank for example, simply by giving the chunk a dmgname.

In config, a setting for each part that tells the engine when the part flies off, at what damage level.

the sections of the vehicle that have no dmg partnames would remain where they are on destruction, and perhaps crumple the 'oldfashioned' way.

Also a good thing would be to have a fire started after destruct, with large smokeplume.

anyway, my 2 cents on the destruction model issue.

[funnyguy1 0]

quite good idea

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....;st=240

look at my post

the "physical" topic is a bit out of subject

greets

[Denwad 0]

include a realistic penetration model.

for example, a LAW has ~300mm of penetration, if you shoot an 800mm piece of steel (T-80 has some sort of composite) it'll make a crater but other than that nothing will happen. Infact LAWs skipped off of armor alot. For example I used to have a manual on US weapons, it did not recommend firing a law at the front of a BMP because of the angles on the front, the LAW was likely to skip off.

also be able to have optics shot out, be able to make periscopes useless etc.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

by making parts 'fly off' at certain damage levels, i meant not only for visual effects.. you could be thinking of a periscope window flying off as well.

Some more things that spring to mind:

a machinegun underneath apache dropping off, turret flying away a few feet on destruction, a wheel of a BTR80 loosing a tyre, making it hard to control, and lowers its speed.

Antennas blown off, making radiotraffic impossible from inside the vehicle.

A muffler of a car dropping off, lowering maximum speed and increasing its noise, making it easier to spot for enemy.

Tailrotor blade flying off, making the chopper go into a spin. when the xhopper crashes the main rotor blades would be shot off like 20 foot long bullets.

Bombs, missiles and machinegunpods underneats planewings falling off after beeing hit, disallowing their further use.

Maybe a differentiation between the ammotype should be made as well, explosive or non explosive ordnance.

A bit more sinister use could then be the bodyparts flying off when a soldier is hit by something explosive.

I know some of these examples go a bit further than i said before, but still, with some decent coding it should be possible.

The damage model partnames is from a modmakers perspective, i think its perfectly doable in that manner, but maybe there are even better ways.

[Colossus 2]

Has anybody noticed that when you destroy a tank the turret is always faced the front?

Victim: VITAPC BMP3

Turret is faceing the front (A bit too dark pic, but you can see the turret is not faceing the same direction it faced before the destruction of the BMP3)

Victim: BIS T80

This got to be fixed.

PS: Good suggestions, but don't you think this will make a big demand on the computers?

[Gen.Carnage 0]

maybe, so a simple configuration setting 'allow debris' on/off switch would sort that out

when i am peering through the scope to see if i have destroyed a tank or not i allways look for its barrel to move back to neutral, when it does that , it will explode right after.

Its not really a bug, but i agree, it should be fixed.

[TDogg 0]

Ya i agree they need to fix how the turret goes to the front everytime the tank explodes. It would also be cool if sometimes the turrets got blown off tanks. Burning tanks, vehicles,etc with secondary explosions would be realistic which i hope will be in ofp2.

tank1

tank2

apc

[Heatseeker 0]

Do tanks explode and burn in RL? I mean when they are hit there must be a sound of the projectile hitting the tank but do they blow up? Also i think they shouldnt turn black, it would be cool to see model deformation and some parts flying but im not sure about the rest, i have seen damaged/disabled armor and i dont thing they blew up, they just took heavy dammage, some holes, etc like in the pics above by Gen Carnage.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

in fact.. they turn white in places where the fire has been superheating the metal , but around those areas the paint would char and go black.. if the tanks went ablaze that is.

The getting darker on damage is i think done as a compromise by bis.. the discoloring is some visual measure of how damaged the unit is, without making holes, letting parts fly off etc, its a compromise for gameplay sake is what i think made them do it.

[Kissa 0]

I think a more realistic damage model would be much more important than just eyecandy. In OFP (1) you can kill a T80 with a pistol if you shoot it enough times.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Do tanks explode and burn in RL?

Depending on what hit them and where.

Even the turret can be catapulted off.

[bedlam 0]

yeah there should be some threshold to get over to actually damage the tanks.

[InqWiper 0]

Quote[/b] ]In OFP (1) you can kill a T80 with a pistol if you shoot it enough times.

You cant. You can destroy a T72 with 12.7 though, but not a T80.

[maddogx 13]

Quote[/b] ]In OFP (1) you can kill a T80 with a pistol if you shoot it enough times.

You cant. You can destroy a T72 with 12.7 though, but not a T80.

Actually, yes you can. You can destroy any vehicle with any weapon. You just need lots of ammo (and time).

I agree with Bedlam, there should be a threshold for damage, for example a tank could have a damage threshold of 25, making it impossible for any weapon below (ie. most rifles and pistols) to be able to cause damage to it. This damage threshold value could even vary on different parts of the vehicle, allowing for 'weak spots' that could be penetrated by weaker ammo. This would add a very interesting factor to the game.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Quote[/b] ]In OFP (1) you can kill a T80 with a pistol if you shoot it enough times.

You cant. You can destroy a T72 with 12.7 though, but not a T80.

Yes, you can. Don't bother researching anything, do you? Try it. Don't bother making a 'test' for it with flying tanks or something irrelevant like that.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

I agree with Bedlam, there should be a threshold for damage, for example a tank could have a damage threshold of 25, making it impossible for any weapon below (ie. most rifles and pistols) to be able to cause damage to it. This damage threshold value could even vary on different parts of the vehicle, allowing for 'weak spots' that could be penetrated by weaker ammo. This would add a very interesting factor to the game.

That would be good. Something similar to combat mission's way of doing it, although simpler of course.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

If such a threshhold is to be used, the idea i basically agree with btw, we should not forget about the rapid fire cannons out there.

I mean with that, that in itself a single bullet from such a weapon would do no damage, but firing 100 or more of these bullets on the same spot each second would eventually get thru the heaviest armor.

Think about the GAU-8 A-10 cannon, 30mm AP bullets, a single shot would probably not go through.. but a one second burst (=80 bullets) would penetrate.

[DaSquade 0]

@Heatseeker: "Do tanks explode and burn in RL?"

Well, i saw a BBC doc. lately about US ammo (weapons) used in Kosova and Iraq. Although US (and others) don't really want to admite, but most of their bombs, sabots..ext contain "verarmd" (english?) uranium (and even in some cases they found evidence of plutonium). Uranium (verarmd) makes it possible the "bomb" can penetrate the armor easly and doesn't explode untill seconde impact (inside the vehicle/ buiding), with the effect the turret often "pops" off  because of the pressure inside . Same for some other types of bombs (like the ones they dropped at the TV station in Iraq...bunkerbusters?).

Srry for OFFTOPIC opinion: but modern warefare is a DURTY game. Don't forget every "bullet/bomb" containing "verarmd" uranium causes radiation when impact and that for many years! ...

[FW200 0]

The word you're looking for is depleted

[funnyguy1 0]

I would like to see real model of damage (like everybody ;)

Here`s link to the law&rpg effectivness thread in ofp1 general.

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....;hl=law

Would you like to se a mechanic in ofp2?

I think, tetter not, because, if for ex tank lose it`s track chain, nobody can just draw a magic wrench and just repair it.

If the crew survive the attack, they could simply be transfered to another vehicle.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

mechanics would only look good when at work if they were taking off the damaged parts and replacing them with new ones.

but for that you need cranes etc, so mechanics with accompanying repair and recovery vehicle would be a good idea.

Making it look realistic would however be an immesnely complicated set of animations, which obviously would differ for each vehicle type and model, and also in what state it is.

Realisticly i dont think this is feasable 'on' the battle field.

What MIGHT be a better solution is this: A recovery vehicle towsthe disabled tank and brings it back to a repair shop.

the tank is placed in front of the shop and is hoisted inside, the doors shut and you hear airhammers, welding torches, grinders, hammering and beating on metal plates etc for half an hour.

after the given time period (settable in the tanks config, and dependant on the amount of damage) the completely repaired tank is hoisted back out on the rear of the repair facility.

Any vehicles that are waiting in the front are then hoisted inside.

That system would replace the unrealistic repair vehicles that are out there in ofp1.

Some extra options for the repai facility to also rearm and refuel the tank would be nice too. (extra time penalty)

[Phleep 0]

That would probably mean the introduction of Field repairs and shop repairs where in the field you can minimise the impact of damage by welding up a hole or replacing a wheel but if you have a garage with parts available you can tow the damaged vehicles there for salvage or replacement parts.

[colonel_klink 0]

In the case of small arms fire hitting the tanks in OFP it would be a matter of using the the Hit eventhandler (if it worked properly) to detect a hit. Then it would be a simple matter of resetting the damage of the vehicle to the setting BEFORE the bullet hit. As for larger gun fire the settings could stay as they are. One thing that would be good is detecting WHERE the tank is hit so that animated damage could be simulated.

Mind you this could be said for all vehicles in OFP. Its a bit annoying emptying a M16 at the cab of a truck and finding the vehicle inoperable because the driver is dead and his death caused damage to the vehicle.

Another annoying feature is the damage to the driver of a car that occurs when the car hits other objects at low speed. Come on! I've been in cars (even an ambulance) that have run out of road and crashed, and walked away with only a bump or two.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

I agree with ya klink, but do remember that we are talking about ofp2 here, i assume the smallarms fire damage to tanks issue will be solved in ofp2, so there should not be a need for running scripts that correct ofp1 engine bugs...

i started this thread with some idea i have about making parts fly off a vehicle, so that would adress the 'where it is hit' issue.

Allowing us modmakers to 'capture' the location of a hit, so we can spawn fires or secondary explosions would be really nice tho.

On a sidenote; a script function that would let a script 'know' what kind of target we are currently locked onto, its speed, its side and its heading (direction) and its distance to the targeting vehicle would be VERY useful.

On screen displays of the targeted vehicle would then be possible (MFD in helo's), also the very specific flight path of a hellfire missile would then be possible to script.