What makes a good co op mission?

[BoweryBaker 0]

I like it whenever you play a co op and the action starts really fast. Like how steal the car was, you start it up and you're already at the confrontation point. It really kills the feeling when you got to go on a long ride and then fight unless its supposed to be an ambush. I think it would be a really cool idea if when the mission started the chopper was on the ground waiting for you to get out, like you start the mission it fades in and the door opens and some guy is outside the chopper like "get on out" or something like a butthole would say.

Edit: maybe i just don't like flying.

Its fun looking at mission as a movie director would look at it kinda. You determine when the reinforcements come in and all that, its very script based. OFP ai can't just radio for help on their own n stuff. They also never run out of ammo but thats another day.

The funnest mission i ever played though was this one mission where you assault a town, i forget how you're inserted, and then you go to the beach to get on this chopper. I think it was like the single player demo mission. You're dropped off on a truck i think, assault a farm, then a town, then you are to get to the beach for pickup, THAT MISSION WAS SO COOL to me because it was the first time in a game that i've ever played where you could be a soldier one minute and then you're riding on a chopper the next, how cool is that?!

[Major Fubar 0]

Speaking for myself (as someone who plays virtually only coop), the following are important:

> Interesting mission objectives: the old "stop the convoy" and "assassinate General Guba" have just been done to death (no offence to anyone).

> Replay value: try to place a few random patrols, have sentries in different positions etc. If a mission is exactly the same every time you play it, most people will play it a few times until they figure out how to beat it, and then never look at it again...

> Clever use of scripts/addons: no, not "Stop the convoy", but this time with Deltas! I mean stuff that makes players go "wow, I never you OFP could do that!". This also applies to interesting use of troops, objects, buildings etc.

Just a few sugestions.

[Munk 0]

A few things:

Something thats not stupidly hard and has no respawn.

Original idea's - Attack the base, fun the first hundred times (Whats wrong with assassinate General Guba?) *runs off to editor to change mission

Replayable - Like Fubar said, random patrols etc. but also different ways of completing your objective

No restrictions - I hate missions that box you into a certian area of the island, especially if it involves E&E.

Good, detailed briefings - Not just one sentence, I like to know where im going, what im doing, why im doing it, how many enemy/ friendly units are in the area etc. Intel is good!

Good weapons selection - enough of the same gun to go around so people dont end up with some optic they cant use. Also where you select your equipment. If there's no good intel sometimes it pays to do a recce of the target, move back and arm yourself accordingly so being able to rearm ingame would be important.

Cant think of anything else really.

[Junker 0]

my rules for CoOp missions

I always make sure the players get to setup in most of my missions, It seems to calm them down for the fight and more peeps last longer cus they take there time when the battle starts up.

I try to make the players reserve there ammo by not adding ammo boxes all over the place (Just the 1 ammo box at the start is good), Plus adding 1000's of weapons Sux (Players will all pick the sniper rifle and that SUX BIG time)

only add enough Vehicles for the amount of players because it would turn into a Lag fest and all the Rambo driving off and running over AI and players.

I never use RESPAWN in co-op, It Sux

I only add 1-2 med tents to the missions depending on the Objectives.

I try to keep the Intros to a 1 minute minimum.

Never over do an idea in all your missions like DESTROY THE CONVOY, OMAHA BEACH or any thing that has been done before, try to come up with something thats different,

Its not always fighting in OFP  ;)

[MrZig 0]

Quote[/b] ]I never use RESPAWN in co-op, It Sux

Uhh, no?

IMHO, especially in really hard maps, respawn is a must, even if it's "group";

And please, instead of sayinh "It Sux", perhaps this:

"IMHO, it sux"

IMHO means *in my humble opinion*

As to the original question:

I find originality is really hard to come up with, because most everything has been done before.

Don't really have any other tips than this though:

Use you're imagination! OFP is limited by that one thing, you're imagination.

[bn880 5]

One good way to implement re-spawn in MP is to get people to revive team mates, and to grant life credits after xx minutes. It brings in a "help my buddy" feeling to an otherwise unrealistic event.

(if you need to get a revive like that going I can set you up with some scripts, they require CoC NS in your mission)

[Junker 0]

Quote[/b] ]I never use RESPAWN in co-op, It Sux

Uhh, no?  

IMHO, especially in really hard maps, respawn is a must, even if it's "group";

And please, instead of sayinh "It Sux", perhaps this:

"IMHO, it sux"

IMHO means *in my humble opinion*

As to the original question:

I find originality is really hard to come up with, because most everything has been done before.

Don't really have any other tips than this though:

Use you're imagination! OFP is limited by that one thing, you're imagination.  

Sorry but it does SUCK   ;)

Our server and members all HATE the respawn cus it isnt REALISTIC.

BTW thats MHO   ;)

Quote[/b] ]IMHO means *in my humble opinion*

LMAO (Laughing My Ass Off) If i want to know the NooB stuff like l337,LOL,LMAO or IMHO i will ask you next time. ;)

I phrase stuff as i like and i dont need to be told how to phrase them, Thank You Very Much.

[[aps]gnat 28]

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>IMHO</span> .... REVIVE is good for Coops ...

Seen good amounts of team cooperation and LONG games 1.5-2hrs for 8-16 ppl in a coop.

Revive with Spectate; stops ppl getting shitty while they wait for someone to find them and revive them. They can watch as someone else gets there arse owned by the AI ... and panic when they realise that they are watching the last guy who's alive be pushed into a corner with no escape.

NOTES

a) Not all of us can find servers where EVERYONE joining the game is experience, is a known quantity, and is using TS2, and so you can run a tight "realistic* game. With inexperience ppl joining in and no revive a game can last 10mins which is a PAIN!

b) And since when is OFP (or even VBS) REALISTIC ffs .... they are computer "games" ....  

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Things i found to be good for coop missions:

1.) Randomized enemy patrols, pos of objectives, daytime/weather

2.) Littl mission gimmicks like spy satellite script, recon plane mission and vehicles & ammo crates are dropped off where players want.

3.) Revive respawn (otherwise dead ppl will get bored and fly around you as a bird. or they try to show you where an enemy is hiding by hovering above him, which kills the fun.)

4.) Short intro (40 sec max)

5.) Mission takes place on new island, the original ones have become extremely boring over the past years.

[Norris 0]

I'd just like to say that I'll kill people who put no respawn in coop. Base respawn is a must.

[KeyCat 131]

Nice topic BoweryBaker!

Some of the things thats important for me...

- Random enemy patrols, locations and unpredictability

- Random weather and TOD

- Beliveable story and mission objectives

- No respawn (or max group respawn)

- You have to make your own way to the objective/s and then you must make it back to your base as well before the mission is successfull

- Mission that promotes teamwork between different groups (lets say you have a human helicopter and you will depend on it for your groups insertion and extraction)

@ bn880: Would love to see such an example using CoC Network Services. Matter of fact I would like to see more tiny examples using CoC NS to learn more about it's capabilites. This stuff is just to good to not be used by us MP coders and I can tell that you CoC guys put in a lot of efforts and thoughts into it!

For thoose of you not familair with CoC NS check out CoC's website:

http://www.thechainofcommand.com/

and/or the doc:

http://www.thechainofcommand.com/docs/

In short, if you are writing MP missions the CoC Network Services overcomes several of OFP's limitations when it comes to MP coding. The downside is that it has a pretty steep learning curve (at least it feels that way for me at the moment)  

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[BoweryBaker 0]

I like how some of you touched on very simple things like from a hosts point of view, and then some of you touched on things like how the mission should be. Very good. I'd also like to add how some of you spoke about effects like satellites n stuff like that. I think effects are cool. I once played a mission where the city buildings were on fire and it required no extra addons it was just a drop command sort of thingy, if i could only figure that out. Anyhow yeah, I think effects like battle damage make a war seem more real. Tanks from previous battles all damaged all over the place to use as cover, stuff like that, rather than getting the feeling that you're the first unit to pass through the area.

[Major Fubar 0]

My 2 cents on respawn: personally, I don't like it. Takes the "realism" out of it for me. Also, tends to cause normally cautious and patient players to turn into Rambo...

The best solution is probably to release two versions: respawn and no-respawn. Not much work to have both versions available...

Also, IMHO, a spectator script is a must thesedays...

[SolidSnake-(SNK) 0]

In my opinion Group respawn is ok, but no other types of respawn.

With Group respawn, you spawn into another member of you're team and plays that carracter instead of the AI.

Noone is brought back from death, you joust go on playing as a another charracter.

My opinion is that all Coop's should have the group respawn.

[general 0]

I love co op mission were you HAVE TO USE TEAMWORK.

à slso like spec op missions. they should be att the night. and of course it must happend things randomly. so it could be like this.

there is a cam with a lot of enemys and it's inposible to just run in a shot. so 1 gey gets ready with a flare, two other guys with machine guns gets in posision. 1 grenanider gets ready to bomb them. the rest will sneak behind them and cach them in the cross fire.

but when you do something like this there musn't be eny noobs in game that destroyes evrything.

[shadow 6]

I like respawn when use apropriately.

i.e. my current project is kinda like Joint Ops, but only the pilot characters are allowed to fly helos(anyone else trying to board as driver gets kicked out). You need helos unless you want to drive a boat for half an hour (AEC). Respawn point is at the friendly airbase. So whener a grunt dies he is dependant on a pilot being able to fly him to his squad.

On regular "attack town" missions I don't like respawn that much. But on larger ops it can be a good thing to make the op last a few hours.

I'm talking COOPs btw (I only play COOP in OFP).

[868 0]

Pilots be a pilot

Infantry be an infantry

Tankers be a tanker

I do realize that every now and then, that we all want to fly the chopper to the insertion area or provide some CAS instead of doing all the hard work on the ground.

But, I really believe that slots should be allocated to specialized slots by each players. (Democracy doesn't fit in this system but we are all human beings with courtesy in mind)

In saying that, I do thoroughly enjoy cooperative missions as opposed to Deathmatches or Capture the flag games.

I prefer the maps to force all the players to work as one team. Gel within your MP players to achieve that one and the same goal, to get the objectives done and return home safely, hopefully all in one piece.

I do agree with most of the guys that posted here about the intros in the missions. It's rather annoying no matter how great the intro was made if its long and you are on the 3rd or the 4th try at the mission.

Random patrols

Enemy support units

Informative mission briefings

Friendly forces in the AOR (if possible)

Logistics support (if on long coops)

Combat medic is a must

Limiting the number of addons required

(yes, we DO need the new addons but I have faith in you folks to come up with excellent scripting)

Respawn = O, nil, none, never (adds to realism)

My 2 cents...

868

EDIT:

Kagetys after death script is a must too =]

[BoweryBaker 0]

Now noone needs three different tank team addons and four different weapons team addons, but i do think that after you go military there are alot of civillian addons that you may say are alot, though they are small in size, that can add alot of atmosphere to your missions. Chickens, dogs, fishing boats, hq command centers, stuff like that.

[Commando84 0]

I think the bas choppers always makes missions more fun where you concentrate on the infatery fights

the sounds the effects and features those choppers have is just plain awesome, another thing that adds playability is being able to choose, should we take 1 m2a2 or trucks and jeeps or combine them all in one group? 1 guy is pilot 1 is gunner and they support the ground team by flying ahead and firing m2 fire to make the a.i dodge while the ground team moves into firing positions is really cool.

Scripts can do all kinds of stuff, everything from being able to heal or have custom music or even a big a.i script that requires a strong server but will make the mission harder, random and increase replayability tenfold

combined arms and freedom to choose and special features and addons make my day i say, though cutscenes and music is another favourite.

[Radnik 18]

...i was fooling around with some tut about mp and i found it very interesting...

so i made mp Coop mission...its made of CWC campaing mission 01flashpoint ( it's first one when you land with chopers and moving toward Morton)...

its for 5 players with respawn somewere in woods on delay 30 sec...like you are playing official CWC campaing with your friends  

its not fihished but its playeble... ... mission

[KeyCat 131]

Pilots be a pilot

Infantry be an infantry

Tankers be a tanker

Agree with that! If a player decides to play as a chopper pilot he should stick to that task during the mission (with exceptions of course, like if the chopper is shot down behind enemy lines) else he should have not choosen it <period>.

I try to make that clear when we play co-ops but not all wants to listen! Remember once when a Littlebird crew decided to land near the hotzone and jump out to get some of the ground action. The result was that they both got killed by friendly forces pretty fast since no-one expected to see them there and took them for foe, nor had they said anything over the radio... Go figure!

Quote[/b] ]

Kagetys after death script is a must too

Yea, Kegetys Spectator script rules!

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[Major Fubar 0]

I am also an exclusively coop player, and I agree with most of the ideas out forward here. (I also really like Shadow's idea about only pilots being able to fly helos...keeping troops realistic to their training.)

After our recent LAN marathon, I would add the following to my previous comments:

- Any non-respawn missions MUST have a spectator script...I don't like to make demands like that, but I'm afraid the seagull just doesn't cut it anymore. Not to mention, being able to scout ahead in an indestructible aerial recon "vehicle" kills the realism factor... "Hey Bob, there is a guy just around the corner from you, watch out! What? Hey, don't tell me to shut up, seagulls can so speak to soldiers!"

- If you want to make an "unlimited respawn" mission, please, please - clearly label it as such, and if you get a chance, create a non-respawn or limited respawn version too.

- For gawds sake, name your missions in the widely established naming convention. I can't tell you how many missions we've downloaded expecting coops from the name and ended up with TCTF or CTI missions instead. Many hosting sites are also too lazy to put proper descriptions next to the download link - don't depend on them to do it.

- For coop missions, please, NO INTRO CUTSCENE. Or, if there is, please make it relatively short. Nothing gets on players nerves like watching a 90 second cutscene every freakin' time we restart a mission. Remember that you can't skip cutscenes in MP like you can in SP. If you have a really kickass cutscene that you really want people to see, consider releasing a "lite" version of your mission that has no cutscene, so people have a choice.

- Don't force custom music on people. i.e. Don't "trick" people into listening to it by putting it in as a background noise instead of on the channel for music. There is a good reason a lot of people put their music sliders to 0 in the options menu. Maybe in a case where the music is coming from a vehicle or object, it's OK to have music as a background noise.

- Try to avoid putting "obscure" addons in a mission if there is an exisitng BIS or widely accepted addon that does the same job. I know, no two people will agree on what is obscure. Just a suggestion. I know we;ve fired up some missions only to find that we need "Herman Hermuncular's XYZ Jeep addon"...when a simple BIS jeep will do exactly the same job. We all like eye-candy, but consider the fact that a lot of people will simply delete your mission rather than hunting for some addon hardly anyone even knows about. Try to stick to well known addons like FDF, BAS, RHS, SJB, E&S if you can.

...some food for thought from a coop fan...

[gandalf the white 0]

- no respawn , makes you more carefull

- if you want urban battles, use editorupgrade 1.02 , in fact, if there are small villages involved, don't hesitate to put in some more buildings.

- random patrols

- option to turn the intro off if it's possible (fun the first time, sucks the second)

- not all armor has to be destroyed via AT... "satchels" ?

- civillians! a car nest to a house, a tracktor in a field, little things that give you the impression it's not just you and the enemy.

[Pathy 0]

I swear i posted in here already but cant see anything of what i posted, so maybe i never actually got round to putting it up  

Anyhow, all of the above in the "no respawns, lots of teamwork" vein.

Plus i like missions with many ways to complete it.....there is nothing like getting into some cover in the middle of enemy territory and having a quick SAS style discussion on how next to proceed with the mission. One of the best examples of this was a mission where your extraction chopper was downed and you had to get off the island of Malden....you could either find a nice spot for a chopper to pick you up 2 hours later, or find many other ways to get off the island. There were also other things to investigate that had been noted in the "Diary" of your guy but that you wouldnt have had time to look into if the chopper wasnt shot down......That was an awesome mission, intense too.

Also, because there were only 4 of us, and masses (i guess the unit limit) of enemies, we were forced to consider if any assault we were going to make was going to be worth it, and we planned said assault (we eventually decided to hijack a chopper) carefully because we couldnt afford to fail   The whole map was used as well, which made it very very interesting

So thats another thing.....either have a realistic ammount of enemies to engage....would you really send one squad in to take on an entire platoon supported by armour IRL? Or if its a SF mission, so many enemies that stealth is the best option....

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I like the missions with an early-rambo-trap. What? You dont know what that is?

Well usually in a big coop mission you always have a few players that by nature tend to ignore orders given by the officer. Good missions have a trap implemented right at an early stage of the mission that usually causes the death of those disrespecting team play. A silent sniper in the forrests, a hidden enemy-squad, a bmp already on alert.. well there is tons of opportunities.