The "community"

[Stag 0]

First of all, my apologies to Deadmeat for taking out on him something he didn't necessarily deserve. I won't say any more about that, because that may just start an argument in a different quarter, and the purpose here is to get rid of that.

As many people have already said, there is no way in which you can stop flamers and trolls from existing. They are used to saying pretty much whatever they like with little fear of retaliation; to paraphrase an earlier comment. they're not going to get smacked in the teeth by a monitor.

The best thing that can be done is damage limitation; you can't stop a single troll from posting, but what you can do is remind well intentioned people that "rising to the defence" of the addonmakers is only making matters worse; telling them after the fact not to feed the trolls is shutting the stable after the horse has bolted.

Now this is where I get argumentative. I'm afraid I can't see how banners merely proclaiming support for addonmakers is going to affect the well intentioned people who immediately rise to the bait of the real trolls. After all, in their eyes they are "supporting" the addon makers, right?

I suggest another type of banner, a compromise between the ones supporting the addon makers, and the "stamp" produced by Deadmeat. Again, it's been pointed out that Deadmeat's solution could just be a red rag to a bull, drawing attacks by trolls. You're challenging them.

You cannot command other people, but you do command yourself. My suggestion is a banner that states what you yourself do. for example:

"I support the addon makers which keep Operation Flashpoint alive.

If I believe criticism of an addon is warranted, I will do so politely, giving details where possible to prove my case.

(Here's the kicker)I will not post in response to attacks on an addon maker. to do so would only inflame a situation which is of no benefit to the community.

I will report to the moderators any post which I think is unduly offensive to any member of this forum."

Now if one person were to have a banner like this, it's very possible that Declarations 3 and 4 will draw attack. But if it were to be adopted by the community, who's the troll going to aim for?

Again, with these banners everywhere, a new member cannot fail to run into them. He sees immediately what the community expects of itself. If he wants to stick around, he'll want one of these banners himself.

perhaps they could be handed out by the moderators, when the new member reaches a certain post count?

[theavonlady 2]

Again, with these banners everywhere, a new member cannot fail to run into them.

See my sig and practice what you preach!

[noundo 0]

<Snip> Thus, a large chunk of the community is young, often without the sense of maturity, decorum and consequence that an older community has AND does not speak English as their first language, which can complicate communication in an English-language community.

I think there have been a couple of polls about how old you are and the result has been that there is a sizable portion (majority?) of the community that is over 18. (I'm 37, 38 this month)

[theavonlady 2]

I think there have been a couple of polls about how old you are and the result has been that there is a sizable portion (majority?) of the community that is over 18.

It only takes a small minority. One bad apple.......................

[Stag 0]

Again, with these banners everywhere, a new member cannot fail to run into them.

See my sig and practice what you preach!

Did you read the rest? If so, You'd know that I don't believe that's enough.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]See, now there's a perfect example of the inane, non-constructive comments that are posted just to get a persons blood boiling <previous page >.

Especially if it boils at 2 degrees above room temperature. Like yours, Ebud.

Quote[/b] ]For the most part DM it's fine to ignore posts such as that as they add nothing to the discussion other than another post in their post count.

That was a legitimate suggestion, I would have made it even if posting it reduced my post count (Which I care nothing about. A moderator can reset it if he wishes to.). Learn to listen a little bit to suggestions. Yes, sounds are hard to acquire from live sources, but there are plenty of movies/games from which you could get better quality sounds. I seem to recall that Tonal used sounds from various games, so why couldn't you have used good sounds from another game for your M4s?

[shadow 6]

Again, let's stick to the topic at hand.

Addon-feedback is not welcomed in this topic.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Again, let's stick to the topic at hand.

Addon-feedback is not welcomed in this topic.

It's all part of the main topic. Addon makers have to learn that going apeshit over any comment is not a very good policy. It discourages anyone from making suggestions, which prevents the addon from being improved by user feedback.

[shadow 6]

I obviously have a hard time telling when you are making addon-suggestions and when you're stating an example.

Please quote your examples

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]I obviously have a hard time telling when you are making addon-suggestions and when you're stating an example.

Please quote your examples

The example in question was how one minor suggestion (Made sarcastically) caused two BAS members to initiate a polite screamfest .

[CanadianTerror 0]

Well that's another thing to bring up.

Addon makers taking comments and making the smallest critique into a personal issue.

I hope that all this pointing out of bad behaviour by the young adults of the community will not mean a free pass for anyone who has "mod maker" above their avatar.

[ebud 18]

It's ususally boils down to the context in which it's posted, not exactly what is said. <edit> not sure what I'm trying to say.... I'm rambling.

Again I'll point to the post about sounds in a thread about how to deal with unconstructive criticism. Wrong place, wrong time even if it was to illustrate a point. Did nothing but put more fuel on the fire. As I personally had nothing to do with the weapons or sounds I could care less about the fact that the comment was made, but where and when it was made. Also it points out how a comment could be worded differently so that it tries to add anything positive rather than focus on the negative, such as "The sounds are not sharp enough. Adding more pitch could make them sounds more realistic." ) It's about the fact that even when you point out flaws you CAN try to at least present a solution to the problem rather than just say you don't like it. I will never get defensive over a well thought out critique that adress an issue in a way that could actually help to make something better. A complaint that doesn't even try to help find a solution to the posters issue is as pointless as gushing praise.

[Balschoiw 0]

Ok My contribution. I have no idea how it´s like to be an addon maker who has problems with some guys. I have done no models yet so I don´t know. I also don´t know why there is a rival behaviour between several web sites and addon makers or mod teams. I just can´t understand that. Addon makers (the good ones) need brains for their work, at least that´s what you got to think. So why all the rivalty ? Why is that ? Wouldn´t it be much more better to join forces and support the community of the oldie OFP with excellent ideas and work. Why waste time on rival behaviour or competitions ?

I have done some missions that are published at our homepage. A lot of people played them and in case I promoted mission in forums I got feedback. Contributing feedback in general. I can´t remember any incident of a malicious feedback through mail or forum post.

Mission Editors btw seem to have a more united spirit than some mod team or addon makers. We share our knowledge and I´m happy to be able to send RED an ICQ when I´m stuck.

I simply can´t understand why you focus on all that kids with low attitude and brains. Get over it. There will always be some lowlevelled ones. Ignore them and don´t waste your time by thinking about the when, if , why things.

Balschoiw.

[alcazar 0]

A complaint that doesn't even try to help find a solution to the posters issue is as pointless as gushing praise.

Be honest now, you're never going to get too upset about gushing praise!

[DKM Jaguar 0]

Quote[/b] ]I also don´t know why there is a rival behaviour between several web sites and addon makers or mod teams

I don't think thatis very common at all

[CanadianTerror 0]

Yes it is.

Proving to you that it is common and does exist wouln't be of much help here though.

[Guest]

Really? I think most teams get along ok don't they? Oh, except for all those BAS idiots....they're just a bunch of...no wait

[ralphwiggum 6]

let's be civil here.

[Tigershark_BAS 0]

A BAS addon is a permanent fixture of everyone's hard drive.

Well......except for the kiowa addon perhaps

[Tigershark_BAS 0]

There is a saying: " Never argue with an idiot...they'll just make you stoop down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Nice one Denoir!

* Tiger adds it to his notebook of quotable quotes...right next to "You can give a monkey a banana but you can't stop him from shoving it up his ass" *

[ExtracTioN 0]

*lmao* TS hehehe

but your message misses 1 thing those old funny TS pictures

[theavonlady 2]

A BAS addon is a permanent fixture of everyone's hard drive.

Well......except for the kiowa addon perhaps  

Me's got it!

Why is this the exception?

[Tigershark_BAS 0]

*lmao* TS hehehe

but your message misses 1 thing those old funny TS pictures

Alas...this forum and its management no longer finds humour in the images I used to post...I got the 4 nice little boxes next to my name to prove it

Thanks for remembering them though dude...used to have a lot of fun with those.

[dm 9]

Lets try and keep it ontopic boys and girls

@Leone... If you want to play it like that, every time we have tried to co-op with other addon teams "for the greater good" we have had it shoved in our faces. Just take JAM as an example. So many teams said they would use it, now hardly anyone does (thanks go out to those that do)

So please think about it before you post something like that, even IF you are jokeing... as it runs on a fine line between joke and personal insult.

[macguba 0]

The problem people fall into various categories:-

whingers - whatever you do, it isn't good enough

mummy's boy/girl - expect you do do everything for them

scroungers - believe the the world owes them a living plus a constant stream of new addons

nasty piece of work - just enjoy being horrible to people

nutters - self explanatory

enthusiastic noobs - cannot comprehend that somebody else may have thought of it already

ignorami - don't know anything about limitations of OFP

engine, and proud of it

geniuses - would do a much better job themselves (not)

attention seekers - just want a reply from somebody famous

morons - genuinely too stupid to understand what's going on

do-gooders - like to interfere and genuinely think they are helping

lucky-guessers - one of the above who accidentally hits on a valid point

combo specials - people exhibiting two or more of these traits

It's no good saying "just ignore them".   You can't.  For a start you have to read the post to find out that it is one of these:  then you have to assess which kind it is and then whether you're going to ignore it or not.   Over a long time, this constant drip feed of individually trivial unpleasantnesses is emotionally exhausting.  I've had experiences similar to DM in real life and its very waring.

"For evil to triumph, all that is required is for good men to do nothing"

Can't remember who said that, but the point is that it's up to every responsible member of the community to support the good guys (like BAS) and educate/punish the bad ones.    Bizarrely, it's considered more acceptable to criticise an addon and it's maker than it is to criticise the criticiser.   This stems from understandable fears of flamewars, but the reason behind it is that addon makers are big enough to take it and the criticisers aren't.   Well if they aren't, they should get more and more of it till they go away.

"Never a good deed goes unpunished" -  my sister

Addon makers and the like do good deeds:  they are punished by the minority categorised above.  The majority "pass by on the other side."

If you like addons and have ever read a post which was unfair to an addon maker, and didn't reply admonishing the guilty party in a measured and reasonable way, then be ashamed of yourself.