Late rhs x-mas present

[benu 1]

@CERO of ACERO, steel in Spanish, so no more Cero, ok?

Well, but @ = "at" so it would be ATcero

[@cero 0]

@CERO of ACERO, steel in Spanish, so no more Cero, ok?

Well, but @ = "at" so it would be ATcero  

Oh, cheekey cheekey.(cheekey girls like accent)

I originally used in my Delta Force multiplayer times for at zero, cos I was such a bad player that in death mach I used to end up with 0 kills and thoused deaths.

But because acero sounds more apealling I stik to it lol.

So call me God if you like

Lets not get out of topic btw.

I was thinking about all this discussions about new projects, like the Nogovan army( In the addons and mods discussion).

Is or will it be possible for people in this projects to use your T55s for a reskin? of course, with asked permission.

Thanks.

@CERO.

[SPQR 0]

9K116/9M117 system (which is named Bastion) has been installed on T-55AM2B tank.

After updated researches (after all, 1991 Jane's is starting to get a bit old )

T-55AM2 upgraded to fire Basnaya =>

T-55AM2B : Czecholosvakian built

T-55 AM2P : Polish built

T-55AM2PB : Russian built

I'm not the only to have to update his knowledge

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to improve my own

For your own information, Romania, during their insurgency, do possess T-55s Kladivo (laser, skirtsand horseshoe armor). I got it on a pic (that's not a TR-77 or so on), in an era when this data was not commonly known... so if you are interested...

[Johann "onn" Bitsoenn 0]

9K116/9M117 system (which is named Bastion) has been installed on T-55AM2B tank.

After updated researches (after all, 1991 Jane's is starting to get a bit old )

T-55AM2 upgraded to fire Basnaya =>

T-55AM2B : Czecholosvakian built

T-55 AM2P : Polish built

T-55AM2PB : Russian built

I'm not the only to have to update his knowledge

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to improve my own

For your own information, Romania, during their insurgency, do possess T-55s Kladivo (laser, skirtsand horseshoe armor). I got it on a pic (that's not a TR-77 or so on), in an era when this data was not commonly known... so if you are interested...

Well, it seems there is another lack of simmilarity between eastern and western resources. And since America is quite a bit far away from russia, then when I have a dissimmilarity between eastern block origined resource and Amercan origined resource such as Jane's, I believe the eastern one.

By my resources, Uzycki's, Beger's and Sobala's work on modern tracked vehicles, it seems clear that T-55AM2 is of russia origin, produced in factories in both USSR, CSR and Poland.

In some production series (probably the last one due to time matters and.. yeah, common problem, money) 9K116/9M117 Bastion system (still I don't see where you came up with Basnya name, however I've found some rare evidences of it's existence over internet, probably some copied mistake) was installed, and the tanks of these series were named T-55AM2B, where B is directly explained as Bastion-sourced.

T-55AM2 does not differ in any other part from T-55AM2B than the mentioned ATGM system installed (as long as we take the optical systems integrated to Volna systems as a part of Bastion system).

The Czecholosvakian variant you are talking about is most likely T-55AM, oftenly mistaken with Soviet T-55AM. Czecholosvakian T-55AM is an upgrade for Soviet T-55A, fitted with Kladivo fire controll system and additionall armour to protect the hull and turret. It is but very different armour addon than the blocks mounted on Soviet T-55AM, it's like a triangular in shape, looking like the blocks mounted on T-90. This T-55AM is a beginning of the way that may lead to Chech ATGM equipped modification.

There is also a Polish modification of Soviet T-55A, named T-55AM too (so, this is third tank to bear this name :>). It uses Merida fire controll system, Bobrawa laser targeting detection system, smoke grenade launchers Erb and Tellur. It has simmilar armour upgrades as Soviet T-55AM. This tank evolved into T-55AM2P Merida equipped with ATGM systems.

Since many eastern block countries developed their tanklines in imitated independance from USSR, and since there was a separation between these countries allowing for certain name simmilarities (cos there was no probablility of name collision because of separation), there are many misunderstandings about what really happened here.

The another thing that may make Jane's resource mistaken is the transaction of selling about 40 modified "T-55AM2" to Afghan Northern Alliance. These units as far as I know were, altough the name, fitted with ATGM complex, probably Bastion. That may have made Jane's to believe all T-55AM do so.

Anyway, remember that soviet intention was to impress America and pose as having better stuff than it had. :>

Anyway two, remember that military stuff is military stuff, we may both be wrong and, knowing russians, they may likely be noone knowing whole truth :>>>

[SPQR 0]

If you have the opportunity to have access to eastern sources, why didn't you also manage to get data as shell's velocity ?

I've been living, as a French NCO, for 10+ years among propagandas (french also),... my tank is better than yours, my missile stikes harder, my armor is better,... so I knwo well that "world of misinformation", only sure of a true gory bloodbath in case of real meeting engagement between East and West, just before nuke-using.

I also thank you very much for having made this effort of explanation...  

... And I used to think that NATO's classification was the most complex  

P.S. for the morons : "Oh a french coward !!!"... I love you all, silly bacteria, and please stop learning about the world watching John Wayne's western films and Schwarzie's Terminators while eating popcorn    

[Sigma-6 29]

Shell velocity is not a tough number to find. . . what is tough, is making informed decisions about what to code and what not to code in early versions. If you're doing 10+ versions of at least 5 types of tanks, you have to decide what numbers are most important for the early release versions and worry about the others later.

[Sigma-6 29]

Quote[/b] ]Two, to say how much I like this pack, but you allready now that, who don't like it? he/she must be nuts.

I've heard a lot of negative feedback, actually.

Mostly (err. . . exclusively, actually) from Americans who think that the T-64 was *unrealistically* given the ability to stand up to American tanks. These are the same people who think that an M1A1HA against a 50 year old T-55  or 30 year old Asad Babyl (a la Iraq) is a fair representation of modern Russian vs. American kit.

I figure though, if you're pissing off the uninformed moviegoing whiny Americans (to distinguish them from the educated, intelligent ones who know what they're talking about), then you're doing something right.

Quote[/b] ]P.S. for the morons : "Oh a french coward !!!"... I love you all, silly bacteria, and please stop learning about the world watching John Wayne's western films and Schwarzie's Terminators while eating popcorn

Err. . . hehe   precisely the ones I'm talking about. . . lol

As an English Canadian who lived for ten years next to Quebec, Americans often say to me (the ones who know where Quebec is, and who know that it's populated by French people): 'You guys know what we're talking about, you hate the French too. . .'

To which I respond: "Yeah, there's one thing we're still really pissed off at them about"

They ask: "What"

I say: "The United States".

It's funny, you see, that so many Americans forget these important facts:

1. The Statue of Liberty came from France.

2. Were it not for French intervention, such as DeGrasse heading off Hood at the Chesapeake, there would BE NO UNITED STATES AT ALL.

3. The French lost the Napoleonic Wars for the same reason Hitler lost WW2 (no, not American intervention). . . The invasion of Russia. Prior to that, Napoleon was in posession of ALL OF EUROPE with only England resisting. If that's cowardice and capitulation. . . I'd like to introduce you to the Old Guard. "The Old Guard dies, it does not Surrender".

4. The French did not cave in without a fight in WW2, as Americans are so fond of pointing out. They, in fact, even in the face of the onslaught of the most powerful military force in history up until that time, achieved some of the greatest early successes of the war, often repulsing the Germans and retaking kilometers of territory, before Dunkirk. During the Vichy government, the French people bravely fought on as the French Resistance, in full knowledge of what their fate would be if caught.

It's sort of funny what a false popular perception can do to a nation's opinion of another nation. What's particularly ironic about this case is that these certain uninformed Americans (I know quite a few who know their history and don't think this way) are calling the people responsible for the success of their revolution 'cowards'. That's just too much.  

[Shadow NX 1]

Quote[/b] ]Two, to say how much I like this pack, but you allready now that, who don't like it? he/she must be nuts.

I've heard a lot of negative feedback, actually.

Mostly (err. . . exclusively, actually) from Americans who think that the T-64 was *unrealistically* given the ability to stand up to American tanks. These are the same people who think that an M1A1HA against a 50 year old T-55  or 30 year old Asad Babyl (a la Iraq) is a fair representation of modern Russian vs. American kit.

Or to put this simple the T-64s were build in small numbers and technical they are superior in many ways to the T-72 series wich is more a cheap easily mass produced tank ( also good to gain money trough its export ).

Bis should have used at least balanced values for the T-80 ( seems to be a T-80BV ) and the M1A1 and not make it a uber tank in this game.

Especially against a BV i think the M1A1 wouldnt stand much chance... the new Abrams are a different story but the M1 from coldwar era is far too overpowered in OFP

[miles teg 1]

Dude, get off your high horse.  Just because someone doesn't agree with your armor values doesn't mean that they're some French hating "whiny movie going American" as you so elequently put it.  

I don't agree with your armor values simply because I have not seen any proof or data suggesting that the T-64's 125mm cannon or its ATGM system can penetrate the frontal armor of an M1A1 or A2.    Side armor, Yes.  From data coming in from this latest war in Iraq, that seems very possible with heavier ATGM's and cannons.

Here is a link concerning this:  http://www.marinetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292236-2336437.php

Also not all the Iraqi tanks were T-55s or T-62's.  They did have some more modern T-72's that were easily destroyed by the M1's and that were outgunned due to superior fire control systems, cannons, and night/adverse weather fighting capability.   The SABOT shells used by the Iraqi Army also apparently were made from cheap iron (although I've never seen anyone confirm this) so they likely were not of much use.  However the fact remains that the M1's allegedly hit by T-72's were not destroyed.  

But you are correct that the majority of the Iraqi tanks were older tanks and not of much use except for perhaps flanking attacks.  Nevertheless saying that the T-64's can easily destroy an M1 is not based on very sound data especially when you add in the technological advantage of the M1's.

In short I have no problem overall with your tank pack because in and of themselves they are balanced with each other overall and they are well made addons.  

But don't pretend that you data rests on rock solid evidence because it doesn't andl there is most definitely ALOT of room for disagreement from both sides based on valid arguements. Even reports from Iraq are difficult to validate because for each incident of a battle-dammaged M1A1 or A2 I read several different versions of the story and very seldom do they quote good sources. I've only found a small handful with good sources and reliable witnesses and reporting.  

So unless you have access to classified data on M1 tanks and Russian tanks or you have irrefutable studies of battle dammage conducted by experts (and not some Iraqi farmer who claims to have killed 8 M1's with his trusty RPG-7) its best not to slam everyone who disagrees with you as even the data you have based on published reports is not 100% verfiable.   Both Janes Defense and FAS (too widely used sources) have been shown in the past to have incorrect data and Russia is well known to exagerate the capabilities of their weapons systems which while good, often do not live up to expectations (as has been shown in various conflicts against Western weapons systems).  

Also before you jump back on your high horse, I do not hate the French and I did not support or currently support this war in Iraq. I only support the troops there and hope that we can bring them back as quickly as possible. I also have travelled widely around the world and have lived in several different countries (including in the Middle East), have military experience, and have a fairly good working knowledge of Islam.

So just because I disagree with you, I don't appreciate being lumped together with people talking out their ass.

Also I think that aside from a little controversy over your armor levels that in general the quality of your addons are very high.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Sigma-6 29]

High horse?

I'm not on a high horse, thanks.

No-one ever said a T-64 could 'defeat an M1'.

Nor did I say that: "Just because someone doesn't agree with [my] armor values...  mean that they're some French hating "whiny movie going American" "

I'm not sure where you got that. What I said was that the specific people who had given *me* bad feedback were exclusively whiny moviegoing Americans, which is quite a bit different, and a leap of logic was required on your part to alter it. Furthermore, if my 'high horse' requires me to lump you (and all other Americans) in with those people, I'll have you know that's not something I'm willing to do, and you don't have to qualify yourself to me in order to avoid having me do that. I don't 'hate americans', nor would I have any reason or desire to think you hated the French. That was your assumption, and if you read back what I said, you'll find that I couched those comments carefully to avoid having people think I was lumping all Americans in with a few childish morons.

Here's what I did say, and you'll note that I did specify that Iraq has the 30 year old domestic Asad Babyl, which you might, if you did the research, identify as a T-72 manufactured in Iraq with 1st Gen Luna IR, and poor quality rolled steel armour, firing 30 year old steel AP with half-propellant charges from an obsolete prototype 125mm (not the one the Russians use).

That doesn't even compare to the M84 (Yugo T-72 variant) that the Kuwaitis were using, which is still fairly poor, but a much better tank.

Let's get it straight: The Asad Babyl only LOOKS LIKE a T-72. In ALL OTHER RESPECTS it is a different tank. There is NO COMPARISON OF ANY VALUE TO BE MADE BETWEEN THE IRAQ EXPERIENCE AND ANY POSSIBLE CONFLICT BETWEEN AMERICAN AN CURRENT RUSSIAN GEAR.

In terms of the perceived problems in my armour levels (and the funniest part is, I didn't write them. They're just the aggreed on values the defense industry uses), is that we're dealing with a few major points most people concerned don't seem to grasp:

1. all Russian tanks from the T-64 on have the SAME GUN. They all use the 2A46 in one version or another. Thus, modernized versions of any given tank are going to be able to fire the LATEST AMMO. I don't expect, in any case, a T-64 in *any* version to kill an M1A2, and you'll find that it won't, but *were it armed with what is being fielded on the newest T-80U or T-90 in terms of ammunition for the 2A46*, it would certainly be able to stand up, *if it weren't fired back at*. And in any case, the T-64's IR is still old and worn out, so at night it would have its ass handed to it under any conditions.

2. There have been MANY versions of all of these tanks. Tha M1, for example, was introduced at the turn of the eighties. It originally had simple frontal armour and a 105mm gun.

It's gone through MANY revisions since, and now the latest version has Chobham with a DU mesh layer, as well as a CITV and the latest FLIR nightvision, as well as a 120mm smoothbore firing the M829E3. Great tank.

Now, here's the rub. . .

WHY is it impossible to accept (for some people) that as many revisions might have been done to a tank introduced at roughly the same time, and that those revisions might have been successful?

Is this assumption somehow based on a disconnect between what was sold to Iraq 30-40 years ago and NOT UPDATED, and the updated and newly built gear?

3. These tanks are meant to be used with BAS' M1s or mine. They might work with BIS' M1s, but I haven't tried. . . and in any case, BIS' M1 is the *1985 version*, and as such, it's overpowered. (Though it's closer than I thought it was.)

[Sigma-6 29]

I've decided to release my personal M1 and M60 packs.

Ideally they will answer this criticism. Keep your ear to the ground.

[tankieboy 0]

I've decided to release my personal M1 and M60 packs.

Ideally they will answer this criticism. Keep your ear to the ground.

[miles teg 1]

Fair enough.  I did not know the history of the Asad Babyl such as that the cannon and basic armor on it was inferior to that of standard Russian T-72's.   However I have to question whether the steel manufacturing process for Russian T-72's is in fact much different then the Asad Babyl and if so whether or not that would have made much of a difference.  Do you have any good sources on the Asad Babyl.  I understand that alot of it is in Russian, but even so I'd be interested.

Also personally I often find alot of the Russian claims about their weapon systems highly questionable.

Even American sources on American equipment I often question highly as I find that even U.S. Army tankers that I've talked to often know very little as to the exact specifications of their armor other then what the official publications are on it.  But if you have inside knowledge on certain thngs that the rest of us are not privy to (or that is difficult to find) then my apologies.

 

As for the anti-American stuff, even reading your post again more carefully, it still seems very much like yank bashing to me.   I could just as easily go into great detail into stupid things that France (or some French people) have done.  The new law banning wearing religious atire in government facilities being one of them.   But overall that only pisses people off as every country has negative stuff about them and plenty of skeletons in their closets.   Why you bring up negative attitudes towards France is beyond me other then it seems you are gloating over your perceived intellectual superiority over such ignorant Americans.   If there's one thing that I've discovered, it's not to underestimate people.  Even people that may not be too keen in some areas, often are quite knowledgable in fields that we know nothing about.  We can't all be experts in everything.  Nor should we be closed to possibilities that the data with which formulate ideas may be faulty or a bit short of the actual truth.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Sigma-6 29]

Reasonable.

Still, I think that I was pretty good about couching my comments. I could have been more careful about using the term 'American', except that the people I was referring to were all Americans. I suppose I could have omitted that altogether though in the interest of Political Correctness.

I brought up France because I have recently been studying the Napoleonic Wars, and because I saw the tagline I quoted, and the parallel was there. My bad.

[soul_assassin 1750]

The point is when people say that a T64 or a T72 could never stand a chance in a fight with a M1A1 it amaizes me abit. How can you know? They have never fought, perhaps the T64's agility and speed will make it a difficult target. Its all left to speculation and when it comes to that addonmakers will have to base the final decisions on their own judgement. sorry.

[miles teg 1]

Ah ok... that makes sense. I do the same thing. I don't do it much here, but often on more poltically oriented forums, I use the forums to work out ideas in my head that I'm writing about for. Anyhoo... I really look forward to your M1 and M60 pack as I'm sure does the community as overall your addons kick ass!

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ran 0]

I've been living, as a French NCO, for 10+ years among propagandas (french also),... my tank is better than yours, my missile stikes harder, my armor is better,... so I knwo well that "world of misinformation", only sure of a true gory bloodbath in case of real meeting engagement between East and West, just before nuke-using.

Dix ans putain ... et moi qui vais et qui viens partout ou je passe ......

quelle unité ? une opération éxtÄrieure récente ? si c'est pas trop indiscret bien sür ..... qui sait , on s'est peut Ätre déjÅ• croisés

i totally agree with you .... well , it would have been funny testing our LRAC89 on some soviet steel to see how much paint it would scratch back when we still used them

[GoOB 0]

It's funny, you see, that so many Americans forget these important facts:

1. The Statue of Liberty came from France.

2. Were it not for French intervention, such as DeGrasse heading off Hood at the Chesapeake, there would BE NO UNITED STATES AT ALL.

3. The French lost the Napoleonic Wars for the same reason Hitler lost WW2 (no, not American intervention). . . The invasion of Russia. Prior to that, Napoleon was in posession of ALL OF EUROPE with only England resisting. If that's cowardice and capitulation. . . I'd like to introduce you to the Old Guard. "The Old Guard dies, it does not Surrender".

4. The French did not cave in without a fight in WW2, as Americans are so fond of pointing out. They, in fact, even in the face of the onslaught of the most powerful military force in history up until that time, achieved some of the greatest early successes of the war, often repulsing the Germans and retaking kilometers of territory, before Dunkirk. During the Vichy government, the French people bravely fought on as the French Resistance, in full knowledge of what their fate would be if caught.

Don't forget about World war one, alot of brave Frenchmen defended their country with valour during that war. And overall I agree with you, the French is/was a very important nation for America and the world in general. Also I respect them for standing up against the US and the UK about the issue of war in Iraq.

On a sidenote... Err I mean going back on-topic where can I find reading material about the T series of tanks? I am looking for some good reading about the T-54, T-55,T-72 and perhaps even T-34 tanks and the action they have seen. Preferrably some information originating from Russia or Europe.

[CanadianTerror 0]

After reading all the above, I just wanted to say:

"Yer tanks shure are perty."

[bucket man 2]

I too find it amusing when I hear some americans saying: no russian hardware can ever beat ours. Fact is that current US and Russian hardware have never met in a battlefield.

These people are quite common in some forums. What I have noticed here is that Miles Teg is a very reasonable discusser (spelling?) and cant be blamed for being a over patriotic jackass unlike some people here.

Edit: Your tanks truly kick ass and I cant wait for more. One thing that I noticed is that when you are in cargo position and look through your own eyes so to speak you cant see others that ride with the same tank.

Its probably not your fault but a OFP specialty.

[da_ofp_man 0]

Ok  I read this all above and don't now why ppl say that a T-72 could not kill a M1 why not with new amunition good and motivatet crew for victory it is possible.not always dominance of technology is so importent a lot depends from soldiers and their motivation to fight.

btw:Sigma relly like your T-64 but  i think that in finale release it should have some camo version not only olive green

like this:

[Johann "onn" Bitsoenn 0]

btw:Sigma relly like your T-64 but i think that in finale release it should have some camo version not only olive green

Camo versions have been discussed very widely among RHS team and it has been decided as it has been decided. Asking for certain camo will rather not be ansewered, as there are so many camos (and so many people around ofp each wanting different one) that we would not end the pack before 2014 :>

[SPQR 0]

I discover that passengers could get up a T-55 Enigma (that's ok for me ) but, that they just dissappear, as if they all just get inside the tank... Great IFV so far

[Shadow NX 1]

Was mentioned before, its weird the Enigma not even has proxies for cargo on it

[Acecombat 0]

Was mentioned before, its weird the Enigma not even has proxies for cargo on it  

Wtf then how can i get on it in cargo?