World war one

[denoir 0]

85 years ago, on November 11th 1918 WWI ("The Great War", "The War to End All Wars" <--- yeah right) officially ended.

Very few veterans are still alive today. Here are some articles on the subject:

WWI veterans remember...

Dead Brits found in WW1 trenches

France open WW1 dead internet database

[FW200 0]

I wish people had learned from this war... (I wish people would learn from ANY war)...

It caused such devastation... it kinda caused WW2 as well..

My respects to those who died in WW1...

[hellfish6 7]

It's also Veterans Day here in the US. Aside from a few newspaper articles about WWII vets, I don't think anyone has noticed, though.

[Harnu 0]

It's also Veterans Day here in the US. Aside from a few newspaper articles about WWII vets, I don't think anyone has noticed, though.  

I'm off school and my mom is off work.  But my dad (NAM Veteran) has to work.  How's that work?  

85 years, wow.

[Grizzlie 0]

In Poland it is anniversary of becoming independent country again, after over 100 years of dependence.

And i fully aggree with FW200.

[The Frenchman 0]

My great grandfather was gassed in WW1. Luckily, he was able to see the end of the war and get to go home before he died shortly after.

[EiZei 0]

Also 85 years since the finnish civil war ended.. couple of months earlier though.

Over 10000 people died in concentration camps afterwards.

[cam0flage 0]

Hmm, a good time to read some Wilfred Owen.

The Frenchman, do you know what gas your grandfather was exposed to?

[The Frenchman 0]

The Frenchman, do you know what gas your grandfather was exposed to?

Not really, I would have to check his discharge papers...

[Skul 0]

World War I; also known as 'The Great War'.

World War II; also known as 'The Pretty Great, But Not As Good As The Last One War'.

Sorry, no disrespect meant. I just thought that up...

.....For some reason, my college class never did the silence...

[Gareth Gates must die]

[bn880 5]

I don't get all emotional over this, but you can be sure I never forget the cost of war. I am kind of attached to this idea since my grandparents fought or served in WW2, and I was born in Poland, maybe that is why I despise war and its bloody results so much.

I just wish all those who died in the wars could be brought back and teach some people what is worth and what is not worth spilling blood over.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I thanked my Dad and the marines and soldiers in our OFP squad- Veterans Day is always a holiday I take the time to observe. And I better be able to find The Longest Day on TV tonight: it's a tradition of mine to watch it on Armistice Day/Veteran's Day (edit:found it).

And thank you to you guys who make the sacrifices necessary to safeguard freedom.

[edc 0]

We weren't out of school here(we never get any holidays off, I'm surprised they even give is Christmas off), but they read a little thing over the intercom this morning before the pledge, about veterens day. Probably the first time everyone hasn't laughed during the announcements(they're usually just crap like today is called present because its a gift that you shouldn't waste...blah, blah, blah).

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]I thanked my Dad and the marines and soldiers in our OFP squad- Veterans Day is always a holiday I take the time to observe. And I better be able to find The Longest Day on TV tonight: it's a tradition of mine to watch it on Armistice Day/Veteran's Day (edit:found it).

And thank you to you guys who make the sacrifices necessary to safeguard freedom.

You'll have to explain something to me. Now I fully understand about feeling gratitude to those that that defended your country in its hour of need.

I don't however understand the automatic gratitude that you Americans seem to have to all ex-soldiers - no matter what they faught for and what they achieved. For instance Vietnam where they shot up a remote country, killed many civilians, got killed by the lot and ran off with the tail between their legs. Now I'm aware that it wasn't the individual soldiers' fault, but not blaming them hardly equals to feeling gratitude.

Am I for instance by American rules supposed to feel gratitude to for instance those that fought Sweden's last war with the Russians - a war that we started and lost - and ended up losing Finland.  

Or why not take it to a bit more extreme point: Are modern day Germans supposed to be grateful to the Nazi butchers that killed millions and ultimately destroyed Germany as well?

This is not meant as criticism - I'm just trying to figure out a part of your culture that seems very strange to me.

[ozanzac 0]

It was rememberance day here yesterday.

To honour all those who perished, and have passed on since the two great wars.

Lest we forget.

[bn880 5]

I wish people had learned from this war... (I wish people would learn from ANY war)...

I think millions of people have learned from the war, not to kill better but learned what you are thinking of. However war has to hit home for others to learn anything from it, as it appears. Not un-common, most of us will only learn a lesson the hard way, or the hardest way which can be death.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Didn't we have this conversation last year? American soldiers volunteer to put up with a tremendous amount of bullshit, including low pay, the chickenshit nature of military life, getting called things like 'babykiller' for policies they have no control over, and of course the offchance of getting killed, all in the service of their country. I think that deserves at the very least a little bit of gratitude.

In the case of Germany, let me put it this way: the German military did everything the German government and people could possibly asked of it, and more. The German soldier really did outperform any of his equivalents over the course of the war. However, he would have performed with the same efficiency under different political control, which is the responsibility of the German people, not the German military. To quote Tennyson: "Ours not to reason why/ ours but to do and die". I submit that the German people failed the German soldier by allowing a party like the Nazis to come to power. In the same sense, America failed its soldiers by sending them to Vietnam, where we had no business being. To the soldier's credit, they did extremely well, considering the circumstances.

To sum up, America shows such unconditional gratitude to our troops because they show an unconditional willingness to serve America. Now, the question of whether they have served correctly, or in the correct wars, is a question for their political masters, and by extension, the citizens who elect them.

[NavyEEL 0]

Quote[/b] ]I thanked my Dad and the marines and soldiers in our OFP squad- Veterans Day is always a holiday I take the time to observe. And I better be able to find The Longest Day on TV tonight: it's a tradition of mine to watch it on Armistice Day/Veteran's Day (edit:found it).

And thank you to you guys who make the sacrifices necessary to safeguard freedom.

You'll have to explain something to me. Now I fully understand about feeling gratitude to those that that defended your country in its hour of need.

I don't however understand the automatic gratitude that you Americans seem to have to all ex-soldiers - no matter what they faught for and what they achieved. For instance Vietnam where they shot up a remote country, killed many civilians, got killed by the lot and ran off with the tail between their legs. Now I'm aware that it wasn't the individual soldiers' fault, but not blaming them hardly equals to feeling gratitude.

Am I for instance by American rules supposed to feel gratitude to for instance those that fought Sweden's last war with the Russians - a war that we started and lost - and ended up losing Finland.  

Or why not take it to a bit more extreme point: Are modern day Germans supposed to be grateful to the Nazi butchers that killed millions and ultimately destroyed Germany as well?

This is not meant as criticism - I'm just trying to figure out a part of your culture that seems very strange to me.

We honor them for sacrificing and serving their country. Regardless of what the nation was trying to achieve, we are honoring the courage and selfless service displayed by our veterans.

[der bastler 0]

We honor them for sacrificing and serving their country. Regardless of what the nation was trying to achieve, we are honoring the courage and selfless service displayed by our veterans.

Well, as a German you can't say such things in Germany without being called a Nazi.

The Great War. All nations in Europe met to fight a final war. Cheerfull in the beginning (strong nationalism everywhere), fearfull in the trenches, disillusioned in the end (Verdun, the "blood pump"). Finally Germany had to pay the bill of this "fete", which broke it's neck and led -as mentioned by FW200- to WWII.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

We honor them for sacrificing and serving their country.  Regardless of what the nation was trying to achieve, we are honoring the courage and selfless service displayed by our veterans.

Well, as a German you can't say such things in Germany without being called a Nazi.

Like I've always said: Stupidity is a worldwide phenomenon.

[Milkman 1]

@ Nov. 11 2003,18:09)]

We honor them for sacrificing and serving their country.  Regardless of what the nation was trying to achieve, we are honoring the courage and selfless service displayed by our veterans.

Well, as a German you can't say such things in Germany without being called a Nazi.

Like I've always said: Stupidity is a worldwide phenomenon.

Amen to that.

[denoir 0]

@ Nov. 12 2003,00:36)]Didn't we have this conversation last year?

Yeah, but I'm still surprised by it. It seems so Sovietesque to me.

Quote[/b] ]American soldiers volunteer to put up with a tremendous amount of bullshit, including low pay, the chickenshit nature of military life, getting called things like 'babykiller' for policies they have no control over, and of course the offchance of getting killed, all in the service of their country. I think that deserves at the very least a little bit of gratitude.

Take Vietnam for example:

1) Most didn't voluneteer - they were drafted.

2) They didn't get the job done.

3) They killed a lot of civilians.

Now before you give me "it's not their fault speech', remember that all military involved, right up to the highest rank are veterans that you show your gratitude to. This includes the high ranking officers that ordered the napalming of Vietnamese villages. While going to war was a political decision, the execution of it was a military one. And the military did a piss-poor job. It seems very odd to me to show gratitude for a badly done job.  

Quote[/b] ]I submit that the German people failed the German soldier by allowing a party like the Nazis to come to power. In the same sense, America failed its soldiers by sending them to Vietnam, where we had no business being. To the soldier's credit, they did extremely well, considering the circumstances.

That's not the question. The question is why you should feel gratitude to people that made your country a disservice. I could go for 'sympathy' and 'understanding', but hardly gratitude.

And what about say war criminals? Are you supposed to show gratitude to them as well? Those that improvised a bit beyond the call of duty and murdered innocent civilians?

[ralphwiggum 6]

in other words, i guess you give credit, or in this case take away one, reflecting upon how others did?

certainly not all veterans are angels, and equally, not all veterans are devils. if someone has to make a very precise definition of which one ot be honored and which to be not, good luck.

as you said, even Sweden made some bad moves and had to let go of Norway(of course slowly getting back through IKEA, but that's another debate ). in other words, the veterans of Sweden did something negative to your country. furhermore, by serving in the military, you are also contributing to that legacy.

[denoir 0]

in other words, i guess you give credit, or in this case take away one, reflecting upon how others did?

certainly not all veterans are angels, and equally, not all veterans are devils. if someone has to make a very precise definition of which one ot be honored and which to be not, good luck.

I give credit depending on the overall result. If they did something good for the country then I have reason to be thankful. If they on the other hand did something bad for the country then I can through sympathy and understanding stretch to the point that I don't resent them - but hardly be thankful.

Quote[/b] ]as you said, even Sweden made some bad moves and had to let go of Norway

Finland. Norway we let go after a democratic referendum. Findland we lost after picking a fight with our arch enemy Russia - a fight that we lost badly.

Quote[/b] ] in other words, the veterans of Sweden did something negative to your country. furhermore, by serving in the military, you are also contributing to that legacy.

First of all no, becuase it was a different country with a different agenda. Second, my service had nothing to do with their failures. And third, you're forgetting my plan to remedy the situation by liberating both Finland and Norway  

[Longinius 1]

I think its a natural step for countries like America to have Veteran Day like traditions. Over the course of modern history, the US has been extremely involved with military actions. War, and soldiers, are a part of America more so than for example Sweden. In a country where most people know or have a relative in the military (or one that has served) it kinda makes sense.