War against terror

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/binladen.tape/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- Osama bin Laden delivered a new videotaped message in which he told Americans their security does not depend on the president they elect, but on U.S. policy.

"Your security is not in the hands of [sen. John] Kerry or [President] Bush or al Qaeda," bin Laden said in the video aired on the Arabic language network Al-Jazeera.

He also claimed responsibility for the attacks of September 11, 2001, which killed nearly 3,000 people.

Bin Laden was last seen in a videotape broadcast on Al-Jazeera in September 2003. A number of audiotapes carrying his voice also have been released.

The al Qaeda leader is believed to be hiding along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

Earlier this month, Al-Jazeera aired what it claimed was an audiotape from al Qaeda's No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, issuing a call to action in the Muslim world, and acknowledging the possibility of being caught or killed.

"Oh young men of Islam," the speaker said, "here is our message to you. If we are killed or captured, you should carry on the fight."

The speaker believed to be Al-Zawahiri remarks on the conflicts in "Palestine," Iraq, Chechnya and Afghanistan, and the state of the Muslim resistance in those places.

is he going soft? no harsh words are to be seen in this article. probably getting old?

[russin 0]

he better stay in that hole he has been hiding if he knows whats good for him other wise we will take his head off or blow him into ity bity pieces

[miles teg 1]

I think killing Osama Bin Laden would be a stupid thing to do if he is caught.  It would only make him a martyr to all of his followers around the world.  Better I think first would be to do imprison him, but not treat him harshly.  Rather work on converting him to speak out against terrorism.  This could be easily done by simply using his own religion against the violent rhetoric that he preaches...most of which is absolutely opposed to what the Qu'ran says.   Osama admitted in his latest speach that he dreamt up his 9/11 attack in a fit of anger watching towers and buildings fall in Lebenon.  This is not Islamic.  You are not supposed to kill enemies out of anger, but rather out of the belief that he is protecting Muslims.  He now sees the results of his actions...which is a MASSIVE attack against Muslims in the Middle East...far more then anything in Lebanon or the Palistinians..  

Sadly, most Americans see his concilatory tone on the tape as weakness rather then for what it is... a possible olive branch and possible dialog with these terrorists to settle it and end it.   People forget that most wars are ended ultimately through diplomacy.  Very rarely are wars ended through genocide or total ethnic cleansing.  Wars that end in occupation generally do not end...they are only postponed until some later revolution, coup, or guerilla war.

What Osama needs to understand however is the reasoning behind the US support for Israel.  I think it could be possible for dialog with him as I don't believe he's a stupid man.  Arrogant and an extremist yes, but stupid, no.  

So personally I think executing Osama Bin Laden would be complete idiocy unless it was after reform had been tried unsuccessfully... However, if reform was sucessful, by Osam Bin Laden telling his followers to lay down their weapons and pursue peaceful forms of resistance, you would have a dramatic decrease I believe in the levels of terrorism.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Akira 0]

Bin Laden Transcript

For those that care.

What he says is indeed reasonable in the sense that what he says is nothing that hasn't been said here (maybe he is an OFP fan).

He actually calls for the American people to take back their government

[BoweryBaker 0]

He's trying to incite a coup d'etat if you ask me. He doesn't mention any specific problems.

[Acecombat 0]

He's trying to incite a coup d'etat if you ask me.  He doesn't mention any specific problems.

You know what hes making sense this time

Bwery he would comment on US issues but the thing is hes probably scared of all the conservatives who would come back at them with their ever useful one and only reply of "you dont live here so what would you know"

[BoweryBaker 0]

Retreating now is he?  Perhaps...  mOTHERFUCKERS NEED TO QUIT ACTING LIKE THEY DON'T KNOW.  That japanese hostage is a martyr for our brothers in jail to show them the proper mindstate, for the martyrs and it will go on and on and on until fairness is established.  Looks like we infiltrated Bin Laden after all.  HAAAAA!  Those who commit an act in the wrong mind, then gain the right mind, and are unable to use it.  Whats the goal then?  Should punishment really be that harsh?  Let the law be changed.  I'd like to see Eminem and Chingy on a track talking about that shit.  It's over.  Show em what you got.  Go get it.  They could get it done if they could get along and agree on the issue but shit dude....  Beyond the shadow of a doubt nigga.  Show em what the HOOD is thinking about nigga.  Credibility is the issue here.  Hrrr.  Let me produce it too.  I already got the beat done and the chorus.  I'm tired of playing , why don't they get up and start saying what they SHOULD be saying and let it out.  Here you go.  Seek Busta rhymes on it, seek dead prez.  Put Erykah Badu on the hook nigga.

me:  "I met a man on the discovery channel that said he was going to die in a dog kennel.  These rappers bitch on the shit thats solved.  Real shit to solve they don't do shit at all.  Use that even.  Shit something."

FUCK YEAH.  THAT SHITS TIGHT NIGGA.

chorus:  "Beyond the shadow of a doubt, shadow of a doubt, shadow of a doubt show me what we about."  

Come get me ill help this shit out ya'll.  I'm getting paid though, thats for sure.  Don't act like you don't got it.  It's God's calling before you die.  One good deed.  I'll finish it now.  I'll have it on CD.  It's funny how i have a blank in the cd drive.

[Acecombat 0]

What the hell was that?

[Ironsight 1]

What the hell was that?

Yeah, what the hell are you talking

Forgot to take your shot of valium?

[Acecombat 0]

What the hell was that?  

Yeah, what the hell are you talking  

Forgot to take your shot of valium?  

I am talking about that nigga nigga and all the other unintelligebile crap bowery has posted.

[Badgerboy 0]

I think he has some kind of degenerative brain disease, as his posts have become more deranged and nonsensical as the days go by.

BoweryBaker, sort your act out. Lay off the amphetimines, and try to focus on reality!

[Ironsight 1]

What the hell was that?

Yeah, what the hell are you talking

Forgot to take your shot of valium?

I am talking about that nigga nigga and all the other unintelligebile crap bowery has posted.

Me too

[Acecombat 0]

Oh i thought you were refering to me there , damn talk about misunderstanding

[Tovarish 0]

Ebonics anyone?

[iNeo 0]

You're all nuts.

[Bordoy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Where's Waldo?

Waldo? who's he? Isn't it Wally? or is that a British thing?

They best get that little, well tall, runt.

[Badgerboy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Where's Waldo?

Waldo? who's he? Isn't it Wally? or is that a British thing?

They best get that little, well tall, runt.

The Yanks call him Waldo. We call him Wally.

[ralphwiggum 6]

let's get back to topic.

[BoweryBaker 0]

*edit* sorry mods. I have nothing to say.

[bn880 5]

Bowerybaker, it looks to me like you're one freaked out n... I mean is it just me or has Osama and Bush really scared the crap out of you?

I have to admit, it was the funniest post in a long time.

[red oct 2]

I think killing Osama Bin Laden would be a stupid thing to do if he is caught. It would only make him a martyr to all of his followers around the world. Better I think first would be to do imprison him, but not treat him harshly. Rather work on converting him to speak out against terrorism. This could be easily done by simply using his own religion against the violent rhetoric that he preaches...most of which is absolutely opposed to what the Qu'ran says. Osama admitted in his latest speach that he dreamt up his 9/11 attack in a fit of anger watching towers and buildings fall in Lebenon. This is not Islamic. You are not supposed to kill enemies out of anger, but rather out of the belief that he is protecting Muslims. He now sees the results of his actions...which is a MASSIVE attack against Muslims in the Middle East...far more then anything in Lebanon or the Palistinians..

Sadly, most Americans see his concilatory tone on the tape as weakness rather then for what it is... a possible olive branch and possible dialog with these terrorists to settle it and end it. People forget that most wars are ended ultimately through diplomacy. Very rarely are wars ended through genocide or total ethnic cleansing. Wars that end in occupation generally do not end...they are only postponed until some later revolution, coup, or guerilla war.

What Osama needs to understand however is the reasoning behind the US support for Israel. I think it could be possible for dialog with him as I don't believe he's a stupid man. Arrogant and an extremist yes, but stupid, no.

So personally I think executing Osama Bin Laden would be complete idiocy unless it was after reform had been tried unsuccessfully... However, if reform was sucessful, by Osam Bin Laden telling his followers to lay down their weapons and pursue peaceful forms of resistance, you would have a dramatic decrease I believe in the levels of terrorism.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

if found, i think the better solution would just to make him "vanish" if you know what i mean. capturing him and giving him a trial won't really be any better than killing him. it would just give his followers to kidnap more civilians and make demands for his release.

[Akira 0]

if found, i think the better solution would just to make him "vanish" if you know what i mean. capturing him and giving him a trial won't really be any better than killing him. it would just give his followers to kidnap more civilians and make demands for his release.

There is no way that the TBA, should they find and capture ObL that they can let it go unnoticed. Or make him vanish.

To much politcal "capital" is placed on the symbol of ObL.

[Blake 0]

If he allows himself to be captured alive it would probably degrade his status in the eyes of his followers somewhat. Terror attacks that could potentially follow with demands of his release would be pretty useless since no way the US would obey. But with terrorism rationality is pretty scarce.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Video shows U.N. hostages in Afghanistan

(CNN) -- Arabic TV network Al-Jazeera Sunday aired video showing three U.N. election workers taken hostage in Afghanistan.

In the video, the kidnappers demand the release of prisoners in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Manoel de Almeida e Silva, a senior spokesman for the U.N. Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, confirmed to CNN the video showed his three colleagues.

"We are relieved that they appear to be unharmed," said de Almeida e Silva. "We call for their safe and immediate release."

The Al-Jazeera anchor reported the two women and one man identified themselves on the videotape as Filipino, Irish, and Kosovar.

The anchor said the kidnappers demanded Afghan and non-Afghan prisoners be released from across the country, as well as the U.S. military base in Cuba. The kidnappers also demanded United Nations organizations leave Afghanistan.

The video shows the three huddled together on the floor, addressing the camera as the anchor spoke over the video. At one point, the camera pans over to a person draped in a blanket with his head entirely covered in a checkered scarf, kneeling beside the hostages.

One of the female hostages can be heard saying in English, "I thought I could help a Muslim country."

The three hostages are believed to be the U.N. election workers kidnapped Thursday in Kabul by a group of armed men.

Afghan officials said a vehicle carrying the workers was stopped by four to six people armed with rifles. The workers were put into another vehicle and driven away.

A group calling itself The Muslim Army sent a statement to Al-Jazeera claiming responsibility for the kidnapping.

The United Nations Friday said it remains in touch with Afghan authorities in an attempt to release the three hostages.

U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard said the organization's staff in Afghanistan continue to go about their work with no change to U.N. operations.

The U.N. did not identify the hostages, but says they were contracted by the U.N. Development Program (UNDP) for Afghanistan's first first democratic election on October 9.

CNN International Supervising Editor Waffa Munayyer contributed to this report

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Blake-

Quote[/b] ]If he allows himself to be captured alive it would probably degrade his status in the eyes of his followers somewhat.

Perhaps, but we may begin see Osama himself is not as overwhelmingly important as he might have been. With the emergence of Zarqawi in Iraq there seems to have been a mould created by Bin Laden into which any potential post modern prophet/infidel fighter may pour himself in the future to great accolades from sections of international Islam. Even if Bin Laden is killed or brought bedraggled before the camera like Saddam it seems perfectly possible that others may rise to fill his role (unlike for Saddam). Whats important, it strikes me, is to make it unpopular to do so and further to make the radical fruit of Bin Ladens loins unnattractive to those muslims who might otherwise willingly harbour and encourage such potential murderers. In other words break the Bin Laden mould.