War against terror

[theavonlady 2]

<span style='font-size:27pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>THIS STINKS!</span></span>

Quote[/b] ]'Upset' Bin Ladin launches perfume

From correspondents in Washington

November 01, 2004

OSAMA bin Laden's elder half-brother took time out from launching his own perfume to tell of his upset at the al-Qaeda chief's new video.

"It was upsetting," said Yeslam bin Ladin of the latest message, in which bin Laden warned Americans that they must change their policy toward Muslims to avoid further September 11-style attacks.

"It's the violence," he told Time magazine. "It wasn't a surprise to know that he was still alive.

"I always thought that if he was killed, everybody would know it. It seems that he might have seen the Michael Moore movie Fahrenheit 9/11."

Mr Bin Ladin - who spells his name differently to the al-Qaeda leader - is based in Geneva and has Swiss-Saudi citizenship. He gave the interview in Paris during the launch of a new perfume he has developed.

"I'm not only a bin Laden. I am Yeslam bin Ladin. I have my own identity. It is my perfume, my creation. I was about to do it several years ago, but then I had to stop because of the events of September 11," he said.

"I expect people out of curiosity will try it, and they will find the smell out of this world."

Mr Bin Ladin also spoke of the problems he had suffered since the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

"Luckily, when you go out in public, nobody knows who you are. You walk the street like everybody."

But he added: "I've heard comments when I make reservations. If I am going to have lunch with somebody, the reservations would be in his name."

Mr Bin Ladin said they he had been investigated by the Swiss and US authorities after September 11, but no link to extremist activities was found.

He said bin Laden was more religious than the rest of the family.

"He was one of the very few who did not leave Saudi Arabia to study. I don't know him very well. I think I saw him before he left (for Afghanistan in the 1980s), and I haven't seen him since.

"The only memory is that he didn't want music on in the house. He wanted it off. It wasn't 'ethical'. I thought that was weird."

Mr Bin Ladin said he did not believe anyone in the family supported the al-Qaeda leader.

"What he has done hurts the family. Financially, if somebody wants to work with you, they think twice. I have been investigated for the past three years because of that. Should ever anybody help him, that person will be responsible for his actions."

[ruff 102]

wellz been wathcing several docs on cia and bush family

cia seems not to like bush family due to the fact that theres too much oil / bin laden family connection before 911 and they even prefer bill clinton than bush (yet we know hus the more war like one)

watch docs or do searches on how bush jnr got into power and find out the backgrounds of each of his appointed staff

they all have oil companies, or were once part of enron or has some ties with bin laden family concerning oil business

cia were even not allowed to spy on saudi arabia and follow terrorist funding accounts due to foreign policy politics under clinton and bush presidencies!!!

man if anyone in this forum lives in australia, they should watch this documentary on the cia

they interview so much cia directors, station chiefs, case officers past, present and active , retired even state department officials, fbi directors, investigative journalists, former kgb, french intelligence

its been on now for 3 weeks on sbs around 12:30am on mondays

dunno if today was the last one

there were 3 major terroist attacks beofre 911 on US civ/miliatry infra structure

now bill clinton was in power that time, but i think during 95-97, the cia director at the time only had 2 meetings with the president for 2 years, and the director at the time said it himself on the interview!!!!!!! could u believe that!!!

man i reckon bill clinton was very smart but too soft e.g. somalia(BHD), ship attack, kenya us embassy, bosnia (took too long to approve ground troops wen it was requested by gen. clarke)

to win the war on terror i reckon

fbi and cia relations also has to be fixed very quickly

the intelligence agency around the world has to be less politically correct and have less politcs and chain of command

as for U.S. presidents

george bush has just has very low iq and has too much corporation/oil connections to be effective on the war on terror

hope kerry gets elected and gives us more of chance to win the war on terror since he is a veteran, and smart. He'll now wen to use force aND with thunder

just to give bill clinton more credit

he did sign an order to kill osama by any means to the cia

just wanna give my 2 cents

[theavonlady 2]

Surprise! Welcome to Abdullah's coming out party!

Quote[/b] ]Kidnapper of Chinese Claims Pakistan Hotel Blast

Mon Nov 1, 2004 07:40 AM ET

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - <span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>Abdullah Mehsud, a former Guantanamo Bay inmate who masterminded the kidnapping of two Chinese engineers, has claimed responsibility for a blast last week at Islamabad's Marriott Hotel, a journalist said on Monday.</span>

Pakistani journalist Rahimullah Yusufzai said Abdullah, the target of a huge manhunt after the kidnapping of the engineers last month, made the claim after contacting him by telephone from an undisclosed location on Sunday.

"We carried out the Marriott bomb blast," Yusufzai quoted him as saying.

An explosion hit the Marriott Hotel on Thursday, injuring seven people, including a U.S. diplomat, two Italians and the Pakistani prime minister's chief security officer.

The government and the hotel immediately said it was not a terrorist attack and was most probably caused by an electrical short circuit.

But the State Department said it believed the blast, which happened while 11 U.S. officials were at the hotel for a dinner, was caused by a bomb and the U.S. embassy has advised its citizens to stay away from the Marriott.

Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed dismissed Abdullah's claim. "He just wants to play to the gallery, the media," he said. "It was an electrical short circuit."

Intelligence advisory service Stratfor said indications were that the blast was caused by a sophisticated explosive device intended to harm Westerners, U.S. diplomats or the Western hotel chain.

Abdullah had said a U.S. and a British national were killed in the blast, said Yusufzai, who has many years of experience covering Afghanistan. Reuters witnesses saw no such casualties.

Abdullah threatened to carry out more bombings, but did not elaborate, Yusufzai said.

The Pakistani army began hunting Abdullah in the rugged semi-autonomous South Waziristan tribal region near the border with Afghanistan after he masterminded the kidnapping of Chinese engineers on Oct. 9, testing ties with key Pakistani ally China.

One of the hostages and all of the kidnappers, whom Abdullah had directed from a secret location, were killed when Pakistani commandos launched a rescue operation six days later.

Senior Pakistani military officials said last month Abdullah was thought to be in the Spinkai Raghzai area of South Waziristan with other al Qaeda suspects, but was constantly on the move.

South Waziristan has been the scene of fierce clashes between security forces and al Qaeda-linked militants in recent months. Hundreds of al Qaeda fighters, including Chechens, Uzbeks and Arabs, are believed to be hiding in the region.

[ruff 102]

I think killing Osama Bin Laden would be a stupid thing to do if he is caught.  It would only make him a martyr to all of his followers around the world.  Better I think first would be to do imprison him, but not treat him harshly.  Rather work on converting him to speak out against terrorism.  This could be easily done by simply using his own religion against the violent rhetoric that he preaches...most of which is absolutely opposed to what the Qu'ran says.   Osama admitted in his latest speach that he dreamt up his 9/11 attack in a fit of anger watching towers and buildings fall in Lebenon.  This is not Islamic.  You are not supposed to kill enemies out of anger, but rather out of the belief that he is protecting Muslims.  He now sees the results of his actions...which is a MASSIVE attack against Muslims in the Middle East...far more then anything in Lebanon or the Palistinians..  

Sadly, most Americans see his concilatory tone on the tape as weakness rather then for what it is... a possible olive branch and possible dialog with these terrorists to settle it and end it.   People forget that most wars are ended ultimately through diplomacy.  Very rarely are wars ended through genocide or total ethnic cleansing.  Wars that end in occupation generally do not end...they are only postponed until some later revolution, coup, or guerilla war.

What Osama needs to understand however is the reasoning behind the US support for Israel.  I think it could be possible for dialog with him as I don't believe he's a stupid man.  Arrogant and an extremist yes, but stupid, no.  

So personally I think executing Osama Bin Laden would be complete idiocy unless it was after reform had been tried unsuccessfully...    However, if reform was sucessful, by Osam Bin Laden telling his followers to lay down their weapons and pursue peaceful forms of resistance, you would have a dramatic decrease I believe in the levels of terrorism.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

if found, i think the better solution would just to make him "vanish" if you know what i mean. capturing him and giving him a trial won't really be any better than killing him. it would just give his followers to kidnap more civilians and make demands for his release.

i just hope he doesn't surrender

like tha analyts of saddam said

they said he would never surrender

how wrong they were

just hope osama doesnt surrender

itll make things more difficult

look at saddam now, i think if saddam had a US lawyer he could walk out of iraq a free man, but not alive for long

and i think u could never change osamas mind

i being a christian even know that jihad does not mean holy war

its a personal sarifice and military jihad has ground rules

1.no killing of women, children and civilians

2. destroying of environment

3. only wen the religion of islam is being attacked

i believe in my knowledge those are the basics, and osama being an extremist has already read that part of the quran many times

so i think its just impossible to change that guys mind, and how long would u give a man like that to reform?

just hoping the first soldier hu has his crosshairs on him, ends it

it doesnt end the war on terror, it helps it end.

"You are not supposed to kill enemies out of anger, but rather out of the belief that he is protecting Muslims"

yet violence is still used, sometimes for certain people violence is the only language they understand

this is the case for osama

"Sadly, most Americans see his concilatory tone on the tape as weakness rather then for what it is... a possible olive branch and possible dialog with these terrorists to settle it and end it. People forget that most wars are ended ultimately through diplomacy. Very rarely are wars ended through genocide or total ethnic cleansing."

Im not sure what u mean by this, but if u mean the west and its allies want to destroy the middle east, it takes only a couple of nuclear bombs before any country in that region could react or if they are aBLE to.

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/index.html

Quote[/b] ](CNN) -- The Arabic-language network Al-Jazeera released a full transcript Monday of the most recent videotape from Osama bin Laden in which the head of al Qaeda said his group's goal is to force America into bankruptcy.

Al-Jazeera aired portions of the videotape Friday but released the full transcript of the entire tape on its Web site Monday.

"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah," bin Laden said in the transcript.

He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, "using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers."

"We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat," bin Laden said.

He also said al Qaeda has found it "easy for us to provoke and bait this administration."

"All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al Qaeda, in order to make generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses without their achieving anything of note other than some benefits for their private corporations," bin Laden said.

Al-Jazeera executives said they decided to post the entire speech because rumors were circulating that the network omitted parts that "had direct threats toward specific states, which was totally untrue."

<snip>

U.S. intelligence officials Monday confirmed that the transcript made public Monday by Al-Jazeera was a complete one.

[toadlife 3]

Quote[/b] ]"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy..." bin Laden said in the transcript

Bankrupt America huh? Well, you have to give it to him for setting such lofty goals.

Quote[/b] ]"We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat," bin Laden said.

So thaaaaat's why Russia economy fell apart! It all makes sense now! That darn "false economy trying to keep up with the U.S. in a massive arms race" theory never did make much sense to me.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

The fighting in Afghanistan was sponsored by the US and hence was part of that arms race (where do you think the Mujahedeen got their stingers?)

Theres no doubt that the Mujahedeen played their part in the downfall of the USSR (they certainly paid a high enough blood price for Afghanistans independence- much good it did them).

Bin Laden wouldnt have made it without the US though (even though allies advised against supporting the most radical elements). You may wonder what any jingoistic and blinkered excesses in pursuing todays enemy might lead to tomorrow. You might not.

[Acecombat 0]

<span style='font-size:27pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>THIS STINKS!</span></span>

Quote[/b] ]'Upset' Bin Ladin launches perfume

From correspondents in Washington

November 01, 2004

OSAMA bin Laden's elder half-brother took time out from launching his own perfume to tell of his upset at the al-Qaeda chief's new video.

"It was upsetting," said Yeslam bin Ladin of the latest message, in which bin Laden warned Americans that they must change their policy toward Muslims to avoid further September 11-style attacks.

"It's the violence," he told Time magazine. "It wasn't a surprise to know that he was still alive.

"I always thought that if he was killed, everybody would know it. It seems that he might have seen the Michael Moore movie Fahrenheit 9/11."

Mr Bin Ladin - who spells his name differently to the al-Qaeda leader - is based in Geneva and has Swiss-Saudi citizenship. He gave the interview in Paris during the launch of a new perfume he has developed.

"I'm not only a bin Laden. I am Yeslam bin Ladin. I have my own identity. It is my perfume, my creation. I was about to do it several years ago, but then I had to stop because of the events of September 11," he said.

"I expect people out of curiosity will try it, and they will find the smell out of this world."

Mr Bin Ladin also spoke of the problems he had suffered since the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

"Luckily, when you go out in public, nobody knows who you are. You walk the street like everybody."

But he added: "I've heard comments when I make reservations. If I am going to have lunch with somebody, the reservations would be in his name."

Mr Bin Ladin said they he had been investigated by the Swiss and US authorities after September 11, but no link to extremist activities was found.

He said bin Laden was more religious than the rest of the family.

"He was one of the very few who did not leave Saudi Arabia to study. I don't know him very well. I think I saw him before he left (for Afghanistan in the 1980s), and I haven't seen him since.

"The only memory is that he didn't want music on in the house. He wanted it off. It wasn't 'ethical'. I thought that was weird."

Mr Bin Ladin said he did not believe anyone in the family supported the al-Qaeda leader.

"What he has done hurts the family. Financially, if somebody wants to work with you, they think twice. I have been investigated for the past three years because of that. Should ever anybody help him, that person will be responsible for his actions."

What stinks about it huh?

Maybe its because a Saudi muslim with a Ladin at the end of his name is his crime ?

Cant you be a little less racist sometimes? Oh i forgot thats only reserved for people like us who can get that 'anti-semite' label around us everytime we dare to criticise any minute detail in israels govt/policys.

[Placebo 28]

"It stinks" is very obviously a pun about him making a perfume, perhaps you both need to take off the bias blinkers from time to time

[theavonlady 2]

<span style='font-size:27pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>THIS STINKS!</span></span>

Quote[/b] ]'Upset' Bin Ladin launches perfume

From correspondents in Washington

November 01, 2004

OSAMA bin Laden's elder half-brother took time out from launching his own perfume to tell of his upset at the al-Qaeda chief's new video.

"It was upsetting," said Yeslam bin Ladin of the latest message, in which bin Laden warned Americans that they must change their policy toward Muslims to avoid further September 11-style attacks.

"It's the violence," he told Time magazine. "It wasn't a surprise to know that he was still alive.

"I always thought that if he was killed, everybody would know it. It seems that he might have seen the Michael Moore movie Fahrenheit 9/11."

Mr Bin Ladin - who spells his name differently to the al-Qaeda leader - is based in Geneva and has Swiss-Saudi citizenship. He gave the interview in Paris during the launch of a new perfume he has developed.

"I'm not only a bin Laden. I am Yeslam bin Ladin. I have my own identity. It is my perfume, my creation. I was about to do it several years ago, but then I had to stop because of the events of September 11," he said.

"I expect people out of curiosity will try it, and they will find the smell out of this world."

Mr Bin Ladin also spoke of the problems he had suffered since the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

"Luckily, when you go out in public, nobody knows who you are. You walk the street like everybody."

But he added: "I've heard comments when I make reservations. If I am going to have lunch with somebody, the reservations would be in his name."

Mr Bin Ladin said they he had been investigated by the Swiss and US authorities after September 11, but no link to extremist activities was found.

He said bin Laden was more religious than the rest of the family.

"He was one of the very few who did not leave Saudi Arabia to study. I don't know him very well. I think I saw him before he left (for Afghanistan in the 1980s), and I haven't seen him since.

"The only memory is that he didn't want music on in the house. He wanted it off. It wasn't 'ethical'. I thought that was weird."

Mr Bin Ladin said he did not believe anyone in the family supported the al-Qaeda leader.

"What he has done hurts the family. Financially, if somebody wants to work with you, they think twice. I have been investigated for the past three years because of that. Should ever anybody help him, that person will be responsible for his actions."

What stinks about it huh?  

Maybe its because a Saudi muslim with a Ladin at the end of his name is his crime ?

Cant you be a little less racist sometimes? Oh i forgot thats only reserved for people like us who can get that 'anti-semite' label around us everytime we dare to criticise any minute detail in israels govt/policys.

Perfume.

Stinks.

Get it?

Smile!

And Placebo, why are you accusing me of bias? Please ban yourself for the rest of the day for flamebaiting.

[Acecombat 0]

Ok thanks for clearing that up i maybe took it the wrong way. Judging the way people simply go bonkers over the name Laden itself anything associated with it immediately deemed terrorist or evil or whatever , seen it happen so much before thats why i assumed this.

My bias blinkers? what are they?

I am just a bit tired of the negative stereotypes.

[walker 0]

Hi All

What the F**k

Quote[/b] ]"CBS) Osama bin Laden now has religious approval to use a nuclear device against Americans, says the former head of the CIA unit charged with tracking down the Saudi terrorist.

The former agent, Michael Scheuer, speaks to Steve Kroft in his first television interview without disguise to be broadcast on 60 Minutes, Sunday, Nov. 14, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Scheuer was until recently known as the "anonymous" author of two books critical of the west's response to bin Laden and al Qaeda, the most recent of which is titled "Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror."

No one in the west knows more about the al Qaeda leader than Scheuer, who has tracked him since the mid-1980s. The CIA allowed him to write the books provided he remain anonymous, but now is allowing him to reveal himself for the first time on Sunday's broadcast.

Even if bin Laden had a nuclear weapon, he probably wouldn't have used it for a lack of proper religious authority - authority he has now.

[bin Laden] secured from a Saudi sheik...a rather long treatise on the possibility of using nuclear weapons against the Americans," says Scheuer. "[The treatise] found that he was perfectly within his rights to use them. Muslims argue that the United States is responsible for millions of dead Muslims around the world, so reciprocity would mean you could kill millions of Americans."

Scheuer says bin Laden was criticized by some Muslims for the Sept. 11 attack because he killed so many people without enough warning and before offering to help convert them to Islam. But now, bin Laden has addressed the American people and given fair warning.

"Their intention is to end the war as soon as they can, and to ratchet up the pain for the Americans until we get out of their region," says Scheuer. "If they acquire the weapon, they will use it, whether it's chemical, biological or some sort of nuclear weapon."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/12/60minutes/main655407.shtml

Too shocked for words Walker

[Homefry 0]

If he truly cared about the religion, he wouldn't be off and killing thousands of innocent people.

[brgnorway 0]

If he truly cared about the religion, he wouldn't be off and killing thousands of innocent people.

Yep, but the problem with fundamentalists wether they are christian, jewish or muslim is that they "monopolize" the right to define the "true way" of doing things.

And your argument in your post is actually something we should all try to remember because it's not religion that is evil, but some people certainly act in an evil way!

[Acecombat 0]

Its all relative in this world isnt it? Time , love , death , life ....

[brgnorway 0]

Its all relative in this world isnt it? Time , love , death , life ....

Of course, all concepts that are shared have a variety of different meanings to different people within a society and between societies. However, most people doesn't kill human beings - and certianly not because some people like to think that Islam in particular is a sort of "computer programe" that makes people do certain things to other people - or kill!

[EiZei 0]

If he truly cared about the religion, he wouldn't be off and killing thousands of innocent people.

Yep, but the problem with fundamentalists wether they are christian, jewish or muslim is that they "monopolize" the right to define the "true way" of doing things.

And your argument in your post is actually something we should all try to remember because it's not religion that is evil, but some people certainly act in an evil way!

Well, consider that all of those religion's holy books explicitly state that they are the only right religion, why should'nt they?

[brgnorway 0]

If he truly cared about the religion, he wouldn't be off and killing thousands of innocent people.

Yep, but the problem with fundamentalists wether they are christian, jewish or muslim is that they "monopolize" the right to define the "true way" of doing things.

And your argument in your post is actually something we should all try to remember because it's not religion that is evil, but some people certainly act in an evil way!

Well, consider that all of those religion's holy books explicitly state that they are the only right religion, why should'nt they?

There are only 3 monoteistic religions, one of them is christianity. Have you seen many evil persons in your local community on a killing spree? If you did - can you honestly say they were informed to do so by their religion?

[EiZei 0]

If he truly cared about the religion, he wouldn't be off and killing thousands of innocent people.

Yep, but the problem with fundamentalists wether they are christian, jewish or muslim is that they "monopolize" the right to define the "true way" of doing things.

And your argument in your post is actually something we should all try to remember because it's not religion that is evil, but some people certainly act in an evil way!

Well, consider that all of those religion's holy books explicitly state that they are the only right religion, why should'nt they?

There are only 3 monoteistic religions, one of them is christianity. Have you seen many evil persons in your local community on a killing spree? If you did - can you honestly say they were informed to do so by their religion?

Read my post again, I said all of those, not all.

[brgnorway 0]

If he truly cared about the religion, he wouldn't be off and killing thousands of innocent people.

Yep, but the problem with fundamentalists wether they are christian, jewish or muslim is that they "monopolize" the right to define the "true way" of doing things.

And your argument in your post is actually something we should all try to remember because it's not religion that is evil, but some people certainly act in an evil way!

Well, consider that all of those religion's holy books explicitly state that they are the only right religion, why should'nt they?

There are only 3 monoteistic religions, one of them is christianity. Have you seen many evil persons in your local community on a killing spree? If you did - can you honestly say they were informed to do so by their religion?

Read my post again, I said all of those, not all.

Sorry Eizei - I might have misunderstood you - or at least the "why shouldn't they" . So why shouldn't they what?

[ralphwiggum 6]

kinda off the topic news, but there was an interesting follow up.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/20/spending.bill.ap/index.html

Quote[/b] ]A bridge near the Hoover Dam between Arizona and Nevada was named for Pat Tillman, the professional football player killed while serving in the Army in Afghanistan.

[Blackden 0]

http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/element....ne.html

Its in french, but you can easily understand where is the problem.

So where is the truth...?

[theavonlady 2]

So where is the truth...?

In another thread (or 2 or 3), where this boring conspiracy stuff has already been discussed to no end.

BTW, the particular film you linked to contains a Nazi soundtrack in the background, in German, referring to problems being caused by Jews. I mentioned that somewhere on the other thread.

[Blackden 0]

Quote[/b] ]to contains a Nazi soundtrack in the background

Damn i am not german, so i cant understand what they say in the music. Hopefully.

But still the video.

[theavonlady 2]

But still the video.

But still this thread.

As I stated there somewhere, this video and the others don't impress me from a technical point of view.