theavonlady 2 Posted August 3, 2003 The last time I played the 1985 CWC campaign must've been before Resistance came out. I decided to go back and try it for fun, running under the Finnish Defence Forces Mod (which enhances standard OFP very nicely! ) So we're talking about Resistance 1.91 with the 1985 Campaign patch applied. What I'm discovering appears to be a major watering-down of the original campaign missions. Gameplay is much weaker and events are triggered for reasons unknown to me. In many of the first missions (Flashpoint, Combined Arms and especially Montignac Must Fall), the Russian opposition seems very thinned out compared to the original campaign. In Flashpoint, the Russians made a hasty retreat, whereas in the past I distinctly recall having to kill the last enemies around the town square before the battle was won. In Combined Arms, during the NATO retreat, I wanted to fire off a few LAWs at the oncoming T80s. However, the mission ended, even though I did not fall back to around where the truck is. In Alert, there seemed to be less Russians and more NATO backups arriving at the scene where the leuitenant was attacked. The Worst so far was Montignac Must Fall. We get over the hillcrest and see the town when the BMP in town goes up in smoke. No one from my squad had fired. There were no enemies to be seen, whereas when I originally played it, there were definitely several Russians towards the right side houses and the extreme right perimeter trees. My squad reached the houses without a scratch when the radio orders to retreat are given. What the heck? This used to be a great battle and now the script runs and tells us to chicken out back to the truck! In the past, I've always go on to the After Montignac mission. Now I'm heading towards the Strange Meeting mission instead. Have any of the OFP regs here had the same experiences? Did BIS weaken the campaign? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Frenchman 0 Posted August 3, 2003 I havent noticed a big difference besides some missions like alert being easier or harder. ... Wait a minute, how do we know if the FDF mod didn't change the campaign? J/k Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted August 3, 2003 Wait a minute, how do we know if the FDF mod didn't change the campaign? J/k  Juts for the record, I've tried it with Resistance minus any unofficial addons or mods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluesman 0 Posted August 3, 2003 I also restarted this campaign . I havent played OFP for about 8 months so i thought it would be a good idea. Last time I quit the campaign with the SpecOps mission when you are supposed to blow up the tanks. I got tired of being shot in the back when leaving the area. I also grew a bit weary of the lone ranger style missions. This and the silly mission where you have to hijack a car and drive alone through half the island were the worst imo. Did this mission change too? (hopefully for the better) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy17 1 Posted August 3, 2003 I play the original campaign over and over all the time (now including FDF) and I do not think that the scripting was changed. For me it is still working fine getting better and better with all these inofficial improvements! Problems could be introduced by high viewdistances because now tanks that are far away can engage. As an example lately I have been shot at by a tank in 4th mission when you go with the jeep to get the truck. Nasty surprise that! But I was not hit... I would not call these things bugs for me they give me a good replay value! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heatseeker 0 Posted August 3, 2003 I just find the a.i. in 1.91 harder than 1.46, specialy machine gunners, most missions do work but some require diferent aproaches now to be completed, "defender" puzzles me the most, it finishes after we blow the tanks and enter the M113 but i remember the M113 driving us to a nearby town and engaging some soldiers in v.1.0, strange. 1985 is the best campaign ever, i still replay some 1985 missions from time to time, too bad RH wasnt made by BIS . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hara Kiri 0 Posted August 3, 2003 i played the ofp first time with coty edition. I haven't ever heard about "after montignac" mission, the "montignac must fall" has been always the same what you described Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted August 3, 2003 I haven't ever heard about "after montignac" mission, the "montignac must fall" has been always the same what you described Search The FAQ for "montignac must fall". To play any mission in a campaign, including those you weren't eligible to play, use the CAMPAIGN cheat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluesman 0 Posted August 3, 2003 Just wondering. Has anyone tried using the INQ mod with the campaign? Is it laggy or playable? I tried the Dynamic Range sounds which initself is great BM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted August 4, 2003 Did some file comparisions. Generally, the missions are the same, with minor tweaks. In fact, in Montignac Must Fall, there are 4 additonal Russian soldiers, as well as an added ZSU in the newer version. (What's the Shilka for? To guarantee shooting down the Blackhawk?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trapper 0 Posted August 4, 2003 The last time I replayed the campaign, I was sure that it was better in 2001, too. I think to get the most fun out of the CWC campaign you have to play it with OFP v1.3 (the last ultimate uppgrade) or lower. All those AI units are not like trains, traveling only on stationary tracks. - Even in the most scripted mission there are situations where the AI has the possibility to make its own decisions. At first view improving the AI has to improve the gameplay, but thats not always true in such a complicated game like OFP. (F i c t i v e  Example: A group of 10 Enemys attacks the whole moving company of the player in a mission. - After a new AI improvement, even with maximum courage set, this group would refuse to attack beacuse now they "know" none of them would survive it. - Many players replaying the mission after that would wonder why the little ambush is no longer there.) None of the mission makers can imagine what the next patch will change, they can only rely on what they see in their actual mission testing. - They have to script everything if they want to make sure that the AI does exactly what THEY plan. So they just hope some basic things in AI behaviour will never change. But Murphy's law is always true, so you can be sure that more than 50% of the OFP Missions play only correct with the version they were designed for. Maybe with more versions if you're lucky but sooner or later the mission is screwed. Now it seems like finaly the allmighty CWC Campaign has scrumbled under the AI improvements of more than 10 patches. It would be nice if BI makes a bigger fix for this campaign. But I wouldn't do it, because it will be almost as time consuming as creating a new campaign. Sad but true, mostly the biggest and best missions are not compatible to all patches. Only the little boring missions are working fine with every version, and sometimes they play even better with new patches and improved AI behavior. Another problem effecting everything before resistance, is the "better" viewdistance and terraindetail. - Enemys will detect you earlier if you want to see more, and all vehicles move slower offroad if the terrain detail is higher than "very low". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 4, 2003 Maybe you're just way more kick-arse now Avon? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted August 4, 2003 Maybe you're just way more kick-arse now Avon? Â True. True. No, seriously, mission ends are triggering faster and I'm seeing a lot less action in them. I agree with Trapper that the 2 main attributes affecting gameplay seem to be changes to AI logic and viewdistance (mine is set to 1500 - I'll drop it back to 900 and see if that makes a major difference). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skul 0 Posted August 23, 2003 I'm on my second time playing through Resistance. I completed CWC and RH and they took freakin' AGES to complete, then Resistance came along and gave me a challenge. The second time I played CWC and RH, I passed them in the blink of an eye! I managed to complete CWC in under 2 weeks! The first time, it took me MONTHS. With RH it took me almost twice as long. Now I'm back on Resistance (seems like only yesterday I finished it...) Maybe it's because I've moved up from 'n00b' to 'a bit better than I used to be' [Gareth Gates must die] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ale2999 0 Posted August 24, 2003 have u guys ever thought that your skill might have increased. LOL I got throught like the 1st 10 mission barely killing any russians at the time. Now If I play I kill em all  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skul 0 Posted August 24, 2003 Yeah, that's what I think, too. lol On my first time on the very first 'real' CWC mission, I got a scolding from Col. Blake 'cause I hardly killed anyone! "But please, sir! It's my first time!" He coulda been more lenient! [Gareth Gates must die] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winters 1 Posted September 7, 2003 In making my world war crisis campaign i have noticed numerous changes in the flow of the missions, in flashpoint the germans practically ran away right from the start for no reason (i used deodarant and brushed my teeth so that wasn't it) and in one of the early missions a strange error message for the awayarmstrong sound file would appear once you completed it (this also appears in the teaser mini camp. i made) i had to just remove that trigger altogether. Also, in Resistance Camp cutscene after the soldier says "Come with me the commander wants to speak with you" the cam moves to up top of the castle and you hear the commander and armstrong talking but they are nowhere to be seen (this is particular is driving me nuts trying to fix, anyone want to help?) and the first time i played monti must fall i nearly fell outta my chair laughing at the self destructing hanomag (guess he didnt want to face my "mighty" bazooka) it's weird how the game can inadvertently get changed with improvements and updates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phleep 0 Posted September 12, 2003 Maybe you're just way more kick-arse now Avon? Â True. True. No, seriously, mission ends are triggering faster and I'm seeing a lot less action in them. I agree with Trapper that the 2 main attributes affecting gameplay seem to be changes to AI logic and viewdistance (mine is set to 1500 - I'll drop it back to 900 and see if that makes a major difference). I encountered your Montignac Must Fall problem. I thought I'd replay the old campaign a few months ago to see how easy it would be now. The retreat triggers before my squad even reaches the top of the rise and we retreat. Being determined to play the notorious After Montignac: Alone in the woods I had to use that campaign cheat. That mission was also easy but I think the extended visibility (1500m) helped there. The original visibility was 700m I think so I'll give that a shot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jed2000 0 Posted October 17, 2003 I believe that the CWC campaign is definitely different (and worse) under 1.91 then under 1.20. I am pretty certain because I was just re-doing the campaign under 1.91 (and it didn't seem to be as exciting as I remembered when I played it the first time using 1.30). BTW, I had the viewdistance at 900. So I uninstalled everything (I don't have many add-ons or other down-loads so it's no big deal for me), then I re-played under 1.20 (just straight original Operation Flashpoint). I only did the first two missions, but I can tell you that the first couple missions (Flashpoint and especially Combined Arms) are much more exciting under 1.20 than 1.91. I played them in veteran mode with all aids off, but not super-ai, in both 1.20 and 1.91. There's just a lot more going on under 1.20; a lot more enemy activity. I re-played Combined Arms a few times in both 1.20 and 1.91, so I'm pretty certain this is no fluke. Is there any problem with having more than one installation? I'm tempted to have one at 1.20 for CWC, one at 1.30 for Red Hammer, one at 1.75 for Resistance, and one at 1.9x for down-loaded new missions. That way I can be sure as possible that I'm playing the missions under their design conditions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jed2000 0 Posted October 17, 2003 Just one more note on my last message--I had the 1985 Campaign patch applied when I played under 1.91. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sv5000 127 Posted November 6, 2003 Yeah i had the same thing happen as avon. I thought i would give the CWC camp a go but its not the same know... just does not seem worth the time.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sv5000 127 Posted November 6, 2003 Yeah i had the same thing happen as avon. I thought i would give the CWC camp a go again but its not the same now... just does not seem the same.... But at least resistance is still fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skul 0 Posted November 7, 2003 I've downloaded the Winter CWC campaign for the run-up to Christmas. And also 'cause it's winter! Helluva lot of addons for it. And I'm getting an addon error....a missing MP5 or something... Anyhoo... the winter campaign... it'll give the old campaign a fresh look. And has anyone noticed that the pictures for the WCWC have nothing to do with the actual missions? I mean, there's a picture of a tank for a helicopter mission! [Gareth Gates must die] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Frenchman 0 Posted November 7, 2003 Do you have a link for this so called Winter CWC campaign? [skul must die ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted November 7, 2003 And I'm getting an addon error....a missing MP5 or something... See this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
