The Iraq Thread 2

[python3 0]

yeah, i saw some of those videos too. Pretty disturbing. Well, at least know, it will be easier to find terrorists now that a lot of them are flocking to Iraq.

[bn880 5]

Hi all

Never thought I would see the day.

Stars Stars and Stripes Disses the President

Quote[/b] ]Stars and Stripes, the Pentagon-authorized newspaper of the U.S. military, is bucking for a court-martial.

...Stars and Stripes is blowing the whistle on President Bush's Thanksgiving visit to Baghdad, saying the cheering soldiers who met him were pre-screened and others showing up for a turkey dinner were turned away....

Shocked Walker

man, thats real sad.

That actually made me sad for a second too... (the turned away bit) I'm getting weak.

[python3 0]

hehe, , no, your not getting weak, you'd just think the men fighting this wasted war would get at least a meal in return for their services.

[bn880 5]

Oh man, don't say stuff like that, I got tears and stuff getting ready to paradrop.

so weak... I've been a little sleep deprived, cut me some slack, I'm more emotional.

[walker 0]

Hi all

This is against the Laws of War

US Private Security firm uses Dum Dums on Iraqis

Walker

[Chill 0]

Walker did you see the video of the US soldiers cheering when they killed the Iraq's?

[ralphwiggum 6]

ROFLMAO!

bn880, if you remember, Indymedia is the one that first came up with 'Pictures of palestinians cheering on streets are replays of CNN's footage from first gulf war'.

I'd give Indymedia credit that is only slightly better than that of Bush's claim.

For example,

1)when was the film taken,

2)was the situation exactly described without any prejudice?

I think given that it's form Indymedia, i say it's most likely that they are not willing to be objective and is just sending messages that are only depicted in one manner.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Hi Albert Schweizer

Should they be putting at least 4 times as many troops on the ground as now? Yes.

Should those troops be reserves and drafted from first responder units (police,fire and ambulance services)? Yes.

Should they be trained in arabic and Iraqi culture? Yes.

Should the draft also include a large number of mature proffesionals including archetects, engineers and business people? Yes.

I very much agree with the theory!  But in practice  

How many soldiers alltogether would you need to prevent Baathists from finding unprotected targets? doubling the amount of troops would be unaffordable and still not even 10% of all potential  and sensitive targets could be protected.

Right now more of the iraqi troops are resigning than new recruits are signing up for it. The coalition administration is incapable to properly pay their salaries. For someone to resign from his job during the current economical situation in Iraq that must come after lot of frustration and administrational incompetence!

My point remains. The Army cant fix or administer things! They are not trained for it. Now you need specialists. Soldiers are capable to fight wars but for deascalation ?  and for solving logistical problems?  for  paperwork in arabic? Fixing the enormous amount of civil data from the previous administration?

And No!! the minimum age of 25 and a little "my friends from Iraq" cultural guide wont change that, neither a healthy amount of common sense, Soldiers cannot do the job.

I agree that reparation teams and all the other specialists involved in fixing Iraq need protection. But after that job is done you cant  just leave a soldier there to protect that target untill all Baathists died because of age. Even a iraqi soldier would be too expensive for that. And even if you protect these targets...then this might even put it in MORE risk since most targets of attacks are the soldiers themselves.

My point remains. Let specialists from all over the world enter IRAQ and do the job nobody else can do better. You ccannot DRAFT specialists, you gotta offer them a deal. Once you do that you will soon have a prosperous Iraq where a general civil life-satisfaction could reduce resistance.

Reduce combat troops! Reduce the amount of tanks and all the other heavy combat machinery (and their millions of maintenance workers) and use the money for civil specialists. Offer them 24h protection, good salary and future deals! Get retired administrational workers to Iraq, let them fix the paperwork!

But Bush plays a stupid game. He asks the world to help him! YES... to help HIM! Cause if it wouldnt be about HIM then he would give more power to the UN. But as long as Iraq remains an american oil-colony noone wants to spend money on it. Consequently the required specialists wont come.

The poor iraqis are not even entitled to get the cheapest or world's best companies to fix their infrastructure since only coalition countries are allowed to sign deals. (oh great, Some folks from some TukaTaka islands are realy skilled in fixing oil-pipelines and pharmaceutical factories. They probably try to build compressors out of coconut shells! Okay well I am exaggerating.. but in the end there are not realy many countries to choose from). I dont realy like the french either   (just kiddin) but they are with no doubt by FAR the most experienced in the field of investing into simillar countries like Iraq. May it be oil, may it be diamonds...or may it be building roads and factories, keeping the french away is not only arrogant from the US but silly and irresponsible behaviour considering what is at stake!

Sincerely,

Prime Minister of foreign investments of the Republic of TukaTaka Island

HEY YOU...YES YOU YOU HAVE READ ONLY A FEW LINES OF MY POST AND SKIPPED THE REST. HOW RUDE!!! SHAME ON YOU..NOW SCROLL UP AND READ THE REST...AND NEVER EVER DARE NOT TO READ MY COMMENTS AGAIN .. OR YOU WILL BE SEND TO IRAQ TO PAINT PIPELINES!!

[bn880 5]

ROFLMAO!

bn880, if you remember, Indymedia is the one that first came up with 'Pictures of palestinians cheering on streets are replays of CNN's footage from first gulf war'.

I'd give Indymedia credit that is only slightly better than that of Bush's claim.

For example,

1)when was the film taken,

2)was the situation exactly described without any prejudice?

I think given that it's form Indymedia, i say it's most likely that they are not willing to be objective and is just sending messages that are only depicted in one manner.

This is no joke buddy! What are you saying, those testimonies are false?? I have seen a lot more on French TV here, sorry I don't have everything linked to some site, since it was never recorded in computerized formats.

What I say stands, and I stand by it, and you even have a member of the USMC confirming, the orders are to shoot anything that moves, especially vehicles, no matter what they are if they are not coalition.

I have set up my proof, if you wish to counter it, provide proof the people in the hospitals lied.

Remember, the dead ones don't talk. Brains scattered on the roadway won't tell you that they gave up and were laying on the ground when a US soldier blew their head off. What you have to do is listen to what witnesses tell you, and note the position of vehicle passengers on the ground, with heads missing.

EDIT: The simple fact is, soldiers don't want to take in wounded prisonners, they don't let it get there, they just kill them as the battle ends.

Umm, yeah, people who had their families slaughtered and limbs shot off DO report in a one way fashion, so what's your point, they should describe another units professionalism? That they don't even know of...

CYA

[HOBOMAN 0]

Listen, I think the we are doing a great job in iraq, (along with the britrish, Australians, ect.) but if other countries are complaining about our great work, they should get their military in iraq to help out. So far the UN has done nothing to liberate Iraq and rebuild the economy.

The UN has done nothing because your government doesn't want them there in the first place

Forgotten history already? How Bush stated that they will go in, irregardless of any further UN resolutions?

How Bush crawled back to the UN a few weeks ago, begging for help and money - and was greeted with a piss-taking handout of 200M euros, and was told to expect military help only if total control is handed over to the UN?

Have you forget 6 months prewar we begged the UN to help?

I think we wanted the UNs help

[denoir 0]

I very much agree with the theory!  But in practice  

How many soldiers alltogether would you need to prevent Baathists from finding unprotected targets? doubling the amount of troops would be unaffordable and still not even 10% of all potential  and sensitive targets could be protected.

If you want numbers, I posted them a while ago:

More than half the active US army personel are now in Iraq. That's about 133,000 soldiers. However only 56,000 are units capable of combat/peace keeping. The rest are support units. To give an example, the 101:st airborne has 270 choppers that require over 1,000 technicians to keep them in the air.

And other units have whole sets of heavy artillery, advanced anti-aircraft systems, air power etc - things that have no purpose in post-war Iraq. As a matter of fact at most 28,000 servicemen are available for the keeping of order and security in Iraq. And that's pathetic. For comparison in New York there are 39,000 police officers who also have the advantage of speaking the language and being on their home turf - something the soldiers in Iraq don't. So having any form of security in the six-million city of Baghdad is impossible with those small numbers - and much more so in the country as a whole.

Quote[/b] ]

My point remains. The Army cant fix or administer things! They are not trained for it. Now you need specialists.

You need peace keepers yes. The US Army is gaining experience at that right now, but it's still doing all the wrong things (barb-wires around villages, etc). As I said the only solution for Iraq as I see it is to get European troops on the ground that have many years of peace keeping experience. And frankly, France, Germany and Russia are actually the only ones that can give the necessary amount of troops needed for the job.

And unless the whole Iraq administration isn't put under direct UN command, that won't happen. For obvious reasons they will not support a war now that they were against in the first place. And while it might seem unfair to the Iraqi people, the trend of USA bombs, Europe cleans the mess has to stop. Or it will be repeated over and over again.

But neither EU nor Russia will set a foot in Iraq unless

[HOBOMAN 0]

Walker did you see the video of the US soldiers cheering when they killed the Iraq's?  

Did you see the 100's of videos of iraqis cheering when they kill us soldiers

[Scorpio 0]

Just thought you guys might want to read a somewhat interesting article.

Behind the scenes of the Iraq war.

[EiZei 0]

Walker did you see the video of the US soldiers cheering when they killed the Iraq's?

Did you see the 100's of videos of iraqis cheering when they kill us soldiers

I think they have right to when they are the ones being assaulted.

[Acecombat 0]

HEy scorpio isnt that site i just posted about in the other thread

Very nice article though gives a different perspective to things.

[Acecombat 0]

Walker did you see the video of the US soldiers cheering when they killed the Iraq's?  

Did you see the 100's of videos of iraqis cheering when they kill us soldiers

I think they have right to when they are the ones being assaulted.

Eizei you are better of banging your head against the wall man

[EiZei 0]

Walker did you see the video of the US soldiers cheering when they killed the Iraq's?

Did you see the 100's of videos of iraqis cheering when they kill us soldiers

I think they have right to when they are the ones being assaulted.

Eizei you are better of banging your head against the wall man

True, but I consider myself a masochist to a certain degree.

[Scorpio 0]

HEy scorpio isnt that site i just posted about in the other thread  

Very nice article though gives a different perspective to things.

Yep, different section though.

[denoir 0]

Just thought you guys might want to read a somewhat interesting article.

Behind the scenes of the Iraq war.

LOL. Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel....

Arabs really need to get over Israel. It's not very credible when you accuse them of everything.

[Scorpio 0]

I figured you'd say that.

I find it hard to believe aswell, but it's not just the arabs that accuse Israel.

[HOBOMAN 0]

Walker did you see the video of the US soldiers cheering when they killed the Iraq's?  

Did you see the 100's of videos of iraqis cheering when they kill us soldiers

I think they have right to when they are the ones being assaulted.

They have the right to cheer about killing us soldiers? You tell these guys that.l

[ralphwiggum 6]

Have you forget 6 months prewar we begged the UN to help?

I think we wanted the UNs help

have you forgotten that

1)Republicans stopped every chance to pay unpaid UN fees during Clinton administration

2)the UN resolution 1441 was enforced,

3)just before march, there were other alternative resolutions that would broaden the search, which US promptly rejected.

This is no joke buddy! What are you saying, those testimonies are false??

maybe not completely true? it's always easy to manipulate one sided story to fit one's agenda. Indymedia has little or no credibility as a media. for instance, say I want to promote SUVs.(*cringes*) then i can get testiminials of how good it is and never get the otherside of story like mileage and etc.

Quote[/b] ]What I say stands, and I stand by it, and you even have a member of the USMC confirming, the orders are to shoot anything that moves, especially vehicles, no matter what they are if they are not coalition.

what guarantees you that those emails are actually from Marines officer?

Quote[/b] ]

From: George Tenet <gTenet@cia.gov>

To: RalphWiggum <drunken_bastard@gluegun.com>

Title: bn880's status confirmation

Dear Mr, Wiggum,

Bn880 is actually hired by Pentagon to arouse strong resentment against the liberal sympathizers, and bring more support in for the current administration, through his posting of crafted, utterly nonsensical posts.

George Tenet

Director of CIA

now no one in right mind would beleive that lame joke, but it is a great possibility that someone can make up a fake identity/person and claim they are from such and such.

Quote[/b] ]Remember, the dead ones don't talk. Brains scattered on the roadway won't tell you that they gave up and were laying on the ground when a US soldier blew their head off. What you have to do is listen to what witnesses tell you, and note the position of vehicle passengers on the ground, with heads missing.

nope, it could tell the most likely story, but not the story. for exampl, you see a dead man on the ground with a gun shot wound to back og his head. is it a homicide or murder? most likely homicide, but can't rule out suicide either.

Quote[/b] ]Umm, yeah, people who had their families slaughtered and limbs shot off DO report in a one way fashion, so what's your point, they should describe another units professionalism? That they don't even know of...

its upto media to find objective story. for example, here in US(Ciniccinati?), police officers were accused of killing a blackman. if it weren't for the hoodcam on patrol units, it would not have shown that the suspect was charging at officers and was a threat to the officers on the scene.

[Acecombat 0]

LOL is that letter by Tenet for real?

@Hoboman what about those guys?

Your saying because they are Marines we shouldnt shoot at them

[quicksand 0]

Walker did you see the video of the US soldiers cheering when they killed the Iraq's?  

Did you see the 100's of videos of iraqis cheering when they kill us soldiers

I think they have right to when they are the ones being assaulted.

They have the right to cheer about killing us soldiers? You tell these guys that.l

-yeah and you tell the famillies of the 55,000 iraq civilians killed by the americans that they had that right

-maybe you could also tell the future suffering iraq generations that americans had the right to use depleted uranium

Use common sense and think for a second..It means nothing that civilians cheer on millitary deaths only that they resent their occupation..

But US soldiers cheering on iraqs deaths   ..Now that comes as further evidence that your army is filled with sadistic trigger happy soldiers..

[Scorpio 0]

The US soldiers cheer for their opponent's killings.

The Iraqi guerrilas and civilians cheer for their opponent's killings.

Both cheer for their opposition's deaths.

Who gives a flying f***? It's war. They have the right to be happy that their enemy is being attacked.