Game physics

[gandalf the white 0]

Clothes simulation is possible (if they implement this it also means we can have realistic rapple ropes, and maybe boats that stir up waves)

[Colossus 2]

Ops, forgot to say that this camo should be for tanks and cars.

Like this

You see the camo hang down, if it was possible in some way to make a layer that makes this, and you can delete sections of the layer, it would be easier to make tanks with camo.

[gandalf the white 0]

TOO much "clothing" will make the game lag

it's ok for small things like two rappel ropes ( kinda falls under advanced ragdoll I believe?) or a single sniper unit, but a convoy with simulated sheets on trucks will be a bit too much

[Colossus 2]

It's kind of a ragdoll mode on the sheet, but it will stay on it's place (locked pos)

As mention before it can be like the curtains on Splinter Cell, but then again that could require more capacity on the PC.

I do not beleive that this will make more lag, it's up to the game makers to make it less laggy somehow (look at HL2! )

[Franz_Schall -SWAF- 0]

Something very promising is on its way for game developers and gamers - the physics processing unit (PPU)!

For what I have read so far about this kind of technology it can greatly improve our gameplay experience in future games even though we have yet to buy another piece of hardware.

Quote[/b] ] The company behind this marchitecture is called AGEIA and is a "Fabless Company" with lots of investors around, including mighty Taiwanese giant TSMC and the almost almighty Bank'o'America. Here in San Francisco's Games Developer Conference the firm revealed its chip called symbolically PhysX.

Quote[/b] ] Such cards can give some life to collision detection and can for example make a character go through grass and move every single grass while walking, adding a higher lever of realism into the scene than ever before. Looks cool I have to say. What need for grass?

We also saw some liquid simulations, where you could see blood spilled more realistically than ever before. It's especially good when you blow up a house into the smallest infinitesimal pieces, or bricks and mortar as the INQ calls them. It actually looks out of this world. I cannot imagine this in a war game. It will blow your minds. It almost looks like Bosnia and Herzegovina 12 years back.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21648

For those who need some additional information regarding this chip and how it compliments with CPU's and GPU's, I recommend to read through thishttp://www.ageia.com/pdf/wp_2005_3_physics_gameplay.pdf whitepaper which describes the technology in more detail.

Just one mandatory question left to answer - is there a chance to see this technology used in OFP2?

[Franz_Schall -SWAF- 0]

Some additional technical features:

- 128 MB GDDR3-RAM

- PCIe or PCI interface

- 125 million transistors

- 25 W power usage

- ETA: End of 2005

Considering that EPIC, Ubisoft and other game vendors already work with them closely I expect to see some videos of in-game-footage soon.

[PriMo_ 0]

more to read here http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/08/news_6119895.html

it would be a dream come true for every OFP fan to blow up every wall, house, object in to pieces. oooh yeahhh... ahhh.ahahhh....*homer*

[Colossus 2]

Wasn't it the game Söldner that had this effect?

THAT would be boosting the realism very high, it would be a dream come true.

Quote[/b] ]Such cards can give some life to collision detection and can for example make a character go through grass and move every single grass while walking

The grass effect isn't that new, but then again it can be improved.

EDIT: If all those effect will be added to OFP2 it would take a good CPU, RAM and graphic card to play this

(luckly I'm one of them who has ok CPU and RAM.. not graphic yet.)

[ixnay 1]

If all those effect will be added to OFP2 it would take a good CPU, RAM and graphic card to play this

(luckly I'm one of them who has ok CPU and RAM.. not graphic yet.)

But that's the point of this PPU; All physics properties and handling are deferred to the seperate processor. With this kind of hardware, you could literally have everything in the game down to the branches on the trees.... be deformable/modifiable. Your CPU/RAM/Graphics card wouldn't be a large factor (with regards to physics) anymore.

My hope is that BIS isn't too far along in their development to give this product and its physics engine, a realistic consideration.

[FHA.Dynamo 0]

I dont think it would be too hard to impliment this new technology into OFP2.. like common.. the new Unreal engine is comming out this April, and it already has this in it. thoe you wont see anything untill you buy the new PhyX card come Xmas 2005, i think most hardcore PC gamers will have their own PhyX card befor the releas of OFP2. ... i know i will.

as i see it.. BIS has plenty of time to make it work for OFP2, and this PhyX card can greatly improve the look of OFP2 with out impacting the proformance of the game (which is still a big issue with OFPR). It would make sence to impliment this into OFP2 since it's releas date is for sometime in 2006. by then you can bet that most games that will be released will have this technology incorperated into it.

one thing that i keep thinking about, is that this new card can be updated to keep the new games of 2006 looking great for longer than any game befor them.

[Hidden 0]

I have read a little bit on the PPU, and it seems very interesting so far.

[CJE 0]

What would be cool is to allow the user to define how he/she wants the game physics to be. Realistic or arcade etc.

[ixnay 1]

What would be cool is to allow the user to define how he/she wants the game physics to be. Realistic or arcade etc.

While I will agree that such a toggle would allow "attractions" of a wider populace, why would you personally want to use arcade physics?

The reason that I ask, is that the OFP community stands out as a sim-lovin crowd, down to the last red blood cell. If one wanted arcade physics/options, wouldn't one simply fire up Battlefield and derivatives?

Not trying to fire upon your comment... simply trying to understand the reasons for your feature wish, as I might be misunderstanding.

[Colossus 2]

I defently only want it to be more realistic other then looking like arcade. Thats what OFP is about.

[sa8gecko 0]

I agree that some advanced physics effects could be enabled only if there's this

PPU (or sort of) present, so to enhance visual effects (and maybe

gameplay), otherwise they're turned off. This way the CPU power

can be used more enhancing AI: I'm not a big expert, but I'd like

the AI to react more smartly, and if this cannot be obtained

without sacrificing effects like clothing, wind and the like, I'd

better like to have these effects as a 'bonus', but better AI by

default. Anyway I'd like this technology to be supported, cause

it will give a new dimension to games.

[ryankaplan 1]

i'm sure they can always implement that on a patch to the game when this ppu comes out. It sounds very interesting, hopefully not very expensive though (i'd probably pay about Å60-100 pounds for it, not something like Å200 though)

[FHA.Dynamo 0]

AGEIA PhysX PPU

take some time and read over the site.

if BIS doesnt impliment this into OFP2, it wount last too long in the market.

most if not all games to be released in and after 2006 will have this technology.

they are probily going to show a demenstration of what the PPU can do in this years E3.

the fact is that this new technology will not only make OFP2 have incredible physics but also dramatically improve the overall engine proformance, since this PhysX PPU will free up alot or resouces off the CPU and GPU, i expect that OFP2 would run far batter than OFPR or VBS1

just having these things in OFP2 would be a huge leap from OFPR

PhysX Processor Architecture has been designed to enable radical acceleration of:

Rigid body dynamics

Universal collision detection

Finite element analysis

Soft body dynamics

Fluid dynamics

Hair simulation

Clothing simulation

Key features:

Stable, high-performance solver

First and only multiprocessing physics API

PC and console support

Works alongside other game engines

Supports vehicles, rag dolls, and character controllers

Integrates with any renderer

Full complement of code samples and tutorials

World-class developer support and custom solutions

pdf on all you need to know

[shinRaiden 0]

First announced 12 posts above, and about 20 days ago.

There's two parts to the system, the physics SDK, and the hardware accelerator chip. You can get a good portion of the functionality in the software, the chip provides scalability and performance.

AFAIK, OFP already uses some licensed phyiscs libs in the Immersion Foundation Classes. Ageia's Novodex SDK likely offers much of the same functionality, but also has the hooks to offload the processing to the PPU if present.

The flip side to this is that the systems are not exactly interchangable, for programming and licensing reasons. You can't just pull out one linked DLL and drop in a different one without all sorts of complications. The plus side though is that the SDK does not require the hardware, so that gives some flexibility there.

[WhoCares 0]

I know that realistic penetration has been requested multiple times, but has somebody also provided some formulae, tables and even applications doing all the calculation?

Don't think so, so here you are:

WWII penetration tables

Guns'n Armor (combinedfleet.com)

Formulae

The first link provides tables of naval guns and their (potential) effectiveness versus various the armor of the major competing navys of the time.

The second is a main page providing links to various other pages on the topic (incl. link three). Furthermore you can download some small (DOS-)applications which were used for the tables of the first link.

Note also this:

Quote[/b] ]Incidentally, I have the source code for these programs, if anybody wants them.

(the me references to the author of the article, not me the 'author' of this post )

Last but not least, link three provides some more or less compex formulae on the topic.

Obviously, all these links are related to naval weapons and armor on WWII warships. But in the end, this is not much different than shooting on a plane/chopper or tank (w/o reactive armor).

No, I do not suggest to implement exactly those equations, but they might serve as a good (educated) start  

With some simplifications it might even be possible to use similar formulae for the penetration of wood (tree tunks) or stone (walls).

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Good post.

I think there are similar tables out there for tanks and so on as well; combat mission uses some extremely complex maths to calculate such things which they calibrated with real data.

[ebns72 0]

I think we definately need a penetration model in ofp2. Down with the health bar.

[simba 0]

Hi ,all

I' ve had some ideas about ofp2 i wanted to say before it gets too late.

I think many people would like ofp2 to be more urban , this could be definitively be achieved with better physics and some of the requirements that follows.

sorry if things have been already asked .

about o2

----------

- the engine should allow much bigger objects , I would say big as the biggest aircraft carriers , or even skyscrapers ( 200m , 300m, 1000m ?) , what a waste of time having to make multiparts buildings.

- the possibility to make animation inside o2 , and being able to make complex animations , we should virtually be able to animate a bicycle mechanism (it means translation, rotation, several anim for the same selection , acceleration not only linear movement ,... for all classes)

- better 3d vieuwer

- everythings have to be at the correct size , corresponding to reality , since everthings are based on human size they must have correct size.

- about sharp and smooth edges , if you still plan to use this functionnality wish is very usefull , please give us the possibility

to define all pairs of vetrices as sharp or smooth ( a human will be entirely smooth , a building almost entirely sharp), then you manually sharpen or smoothen the exceptions.

- all vehicles should be able to drive as fast on a building than on a road , and of course without too many collisions .

- raised roads , ...

- less demanding geo and fire geo lod , by allowing more compex shapes , it would decrease the number of points used and would be easier to achieve.

- roadway lod

- a res lod wish doesn't depends on the distance you are from the object , but if you are in the object or not .

for ex : I model a house and a cube wish contains the house , as soon as i enter this invisible cube all the internal infrastucture ( and even all the internal geo and fire lods) appears .

this could help reduce lag a maximum.

- this is more a graphical issue , but it should be possible to make all the horizontal surfaces facing upwards get darker when it rains , and eventually a little reflective to spotlights ...

- every weapons shoud have it's proper anims ( reload ,aim , carry ,...) you don't reload a m16 like a p90.

- please true rockets , with better ballistic .

about maps

---------

- smaller grid size not only to apply higher res text , but also to make more accurate contours .

- the possibily to make tunnels without having to place an object , it shoud be "digged " into the map.

- the possibily of creating on the map totally vertical ground height differences ( very usefull for channels , tunnels , bridge placing , trenches ,mountains , towns , ...)

- a good vieuwer , where you are actually on your map and what you see reflects exactly what you see in game (with textures ).

- possibilty to determine the height , size , angle ( around X,Y,Z) of objects in the map editor .

The best would be to merge in one program , modelling and making maps , you wouldn't have to pack each time your model ,text , config. To test your last fixes , just alt tab the game and everythings appears with the last modifications .

what about a ofp2 official editing manual , gathering all your internal notes or something.

Less questions would asked to bis team , and addonmakers will not have to open models to understand how it works even if it is an excellent way to learn .

I 'd definitively would pay for this .

simba.

[Jimpy 0]

Removed due to irrelevance.

[Garcia 0]

I thought this was suggestions to the physics in OFP2, not thing about AI and islands...

[Pyronick 21]

AGEIA PhysX PPU

take some time and read over the site.

if BIS doesnt impliment this into OFP2, it wount last too long in the market.

most if not all games to be released in and after 2006 will have this technology.

they are probily going to show a demenstration of what the PPU can do in this years E3.

the fact is that this new technology will not only make OFP2 have incredible physics but also dramatically improve the overall engine proformance, since this PhysX PPU will free up alot or resouces off the CPU and GPU, i expect that OFP2 would run far batter than OFPR or VBS1

just having these things in OFP2 would be a huge leap from OFPR

PhysX Processor Architecture has been designed to enable radical acceleration of:

Rigid body dynamics

Universal collision detection

Finite element analysis

Soft body dynamics

Fluid dynamics

Hair simulation

Clothing simulation

Key features:

Stable, high-performance solver

First and only multiprocessing physics API

PC and console support

Works alongside other game engines

Supports vehicles, rag dolls, and character controllers

Integrates with any renderer

Full complement of code samples and tutorials

World-class developer support and custom solutions

pdf on all you need to know

Yes I totally agree, if this game is a 2006 game without NovodeX support, it ain't gonna last long enough...

Only the diehard Flashpoint fans who have extreme overclocked super dual-processor 2+GB RAM computers would buy this.

Because the PPU calculates all the physical events in the game, the CPU will be more focused on AI.

Thus being able to deliver more power for AI, which means AI will be much better.

Take an example like Call of Duty 2, Their producer Infinity Ward decided to add no physics at all, this however is a very bad choice.

Over 8000 people who follow(ed) this game all decided not to buy it.

Infinity Ward says: We don't want players to play with exploding barrels but just to play with guns.

OMFG?!?! What happend to these people? Can't they see HL2 is the bestselled game just because of these so-called physics?!?!

Eitherway, OFP2 would be a flop if it won't have reasonable physics or NovodeX support.