Game physics

[Xenios 0]

I agree with what you're saying about body armor, and I hope it will present in OFP2. Unfortunately, I imagine a lot more people will be scoffing at the idea, with the assumption that it's worthless against anything other than pistol rounds.

As has been noted by the previous poster, if ballistics are modelled correctly, even rifle and heavy MG rounds lose their energy at range. At extreme range, a kevlar helmet or vest will stop a rifle round. And if shrapnel damage is modelled correctly, body armor should provide some (certainly not total) protection, even at close range. Jagged metal and debris has poor penetration ability. Body armor would be less effective, however, against deadly concusion forces close to a large explosion.

Another reason why so many armed forces around the world use body armor as standard equipment is because modern weapons will shoot through most cover on the battlefield. Hiding behind a car or a house may slow a MG bullet but will not stop it, but kevlar can often finish the job of stopping a slowed down round.

My dad served in the 101 Airborne in Vietnam, and while there he got ahold of some ceramic armor which could stop a AK round point blank. It was heavy and was usually only worn by Huey gunners, but he wore it whenever he didn't have to walk too far. Typically his duties were patrolling the perimeter of the firebase, which was under nightly attack by Viet Cong. I wouldn't be here if my dad hadn't been wearing that armor.

[Jinef 2]

Yeah body armour for us pilots!

And make holes appear in the canopy when bullets come at you.

Also making the AI fire their rifles at helicopters would be good.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ 09 May 2003,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also making the AI fire their rifles at helicopters would be good.<span id='postcolor'>

I second that, it's really really odd flying an Mi24 in this game... oops, simulator.

[ntstlkr 0]

Cheers Gents,

101st? I was assigned to the 2-17th Cav, 101st ABN (AASLT) from early '93 to the end of '94. We had a bunch of the old "chicken plate" ceramic armor in storage for the pilots. Was in a kinda back/front with a wrap around velcroized strap that went around the torso. Man that crap was heavy!!!

Your Dad musta had a helluva time humpin that shit around. Give me my Kevlar anyday!!!

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

what Ntstlkr was fine, I was more sort of trying to stop the 'flak jackets make you able to absorb 2 or 3 bullets before you start getting hurt' brigade. I'd like to see flak jackets providing limited protection from shrapnel but none from small arms (unless the medical side is more detailed, then the person with a flak jacket could survive longer without dieing without medical attention.)

The details about the new US helmet is irrelevant though because the game won't be contemporary, so the soldiers will have the old 'rounds go straight through' style helmets.

And I assume there will be more than one side in the game, so the US having a super new bulletproof helmet isn't that relevant.

Although maybe there isn't two sides! Maybe its going to be US vs US, blue on blue simulator

[ntstlkr 0]

Cheers All,

Yeah, the scripting for wounds to individual body parts. Probably a limit to that since most games go with the general one wound is as good as another, although IGI2 makes a differentiation for head shots.

Here's one for you I haven't seen before but came to me playing AA the other night. Climbable trees. Not all of them but some might be made climbable. Tons of possibilities for the sniper crowd <EG>.

Also, probably more along the lines of scripting than in-game physics, is being able to adjust threat priorities against specific threat types as opposed to just general catagories (i.e. air, ground, etc.). A F4G Wild Weasal would target AAA and SAM, leaving the rest alone unless he was carrying other ordnance (like some snakes).

Even true direct fire modeling, since the indirect fire has been addressed ad naseum, would be nice. A 105mm main gun on a M60A3 had a workable range (depending on target type) of 1500-2500 m. Since the game is era specific, lets say the 106mm recoiless (jeep and Ontos mounted) could range out to 1500 m+ target dependent. O'course that'll be more of a function of setting the viewdistance incorporated into the game graphics abilities and CPU ability.

Speaking of trees, curious to see the implementation of triple canopy jungle.

NSDQ!!

[Jinef 2]

Actually i think you'll find that Russian optics are of a fairly (i've used latest RAF and old russian) good standard at 1/10 of the price.

The Russians are really the best when it comes to good optical sights for a very cheap deal.

True you can have your Niko japanese stuff for a couple of thousand quid but on an infantry scale it's a waste of money.

[ofpchaos 0]

TERRAFORMING PLZ

crumbling Walls

[Batukhan 0]

i think, that they should make the collusions more like in (god, forgive me for saying this) Battlefield 1942. I hate this game, but i love it's collusions: when u go aboard a moving boat or a plane or a car/tank then u wont slip off, but u stay on it... i know, "who am i to say how to make collusions" and no-one's gonna read this reply anyway, but if u do, then u should seriously consider making collusions, which was the BIGGEST "bug" in the OFP1

[Col. Kurtz 0]

i think, that they should make the collusions more like in (god, forgive me for saying this) Battlefield 1942. I hate this game, but i love it's collusions: when u go aboard a moving boat or a plane or a car/tank then u wont slip off, but u stay on it... i know, "who am i to say how to make collusions" and no-one's gonna read this reply anyway, but if u do, then u should seriously consider making collusions, which was the BIGGEST "bug" in the OFP1

That is a feature that many people want so I think BIS will include it to make us all happy

[frankie2spankie 0]

Physics need improvement , yes

But not only for the vehicles , for the unit itself too

How many time when playing OFP i had the impression of "driving" my soldier and not "being" it

The physics for the OFP soldier are nearly similar to Wargasm soldier (it was worse in Wargasm, but if you know this game, you will understand)

Please, improve the immersive factor by improving player physics and smoothness

NO!! Dont do that, thats one of the things i love about ofp, i hate the way you "glide" over the surface in other games. In ofp it feels like a real person you are controlling.

I agree, DO NOT CHANGE PLAYER MOVEMENT!

Ben

Is it a joke ? i cant believe people like actual player movement system , it is not smooth and intuitive.

Just walk forward, then press left or right strafe key and you will have the impression your unit is a tank , never like a real person

The game atmosphere and the multiple situations you encounter actually give OFP a lot of immersive factor, but not the player control.

If the player controls was smooth and naturals , the immersive factor will be increased exponentially .

Actually guyz, i just changed my PC to a 2.3Ghz or summot like that with loads of RAM etc and the player movement is incredibly quicker and smoother. However, it makes the game to easy as you make unrealistic reaction times.

The old, sluggish way was much better. The strafing is fine too!!!!! sure you cant hit naf all when you strafe and run but hey!

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Actually frankie, the game doesn't get any faster with a faster PC, it just is more likely to run at the speed its supposed to. If you tweak it right you can get a 500mhz to run OFP at the same speed as a 2.4 (will look absolute donkey ba's tho)

How can you have unrealistic reaction times if the whole game is speeded up? The ai would react faster too.

[Batukhan 0]

speaking of AI... they had a very intelligent AI in OFP1, for the formations and tactics/strategies... but when it came to a serious face-to-face dogfight, then that AI was a piece of s***. They had absolutely no reaction, they aimed WAY TOO slow... i mean, if i saw a russian, then i could step 3 times on him before, he started shooting... that way you could do 1vs12 fights(if attacking from behind).. that aint really cool :P

[bonko the sane 2]

I've posted this in some other thread but what the hell...

The game phisics for the engine in OFP2 needs to be improved regarding clipping:buildings+large vehicles...if not well never have a decent ship or aircraft carriers,well all go through structure as usual ...that is the worse thing in OFP for me

[Acecube 0]

I hope you guys from BIS read this ;-)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sugestion for OFP2:

Make even more different surface properties for the Maps (Ground properties).

This is:

- of course realistic physics, so ground vehicles can NOT go up hills steper than 45°. (usually much lesser)

- Make vehicles with high center of balance tumble/flip over when they reach a critical angle.

- Different ground/surface properties which make vehicles/soldiers move differently or not at all! (Like mudd, very rough terrain,) Wet grass will embarras even the fancyest off road car driver!!!

- Make ditches/channels/drains along roads where cars and trucks can get stuck. Only then you can simulate good convoy ambushing.

- Even soldiers walking speed should be influenced by different grounds

This will give the landscape a much bigger tactical/strategic meaning. For now Mountains are only a bigger cover as they can be climbed by most any vehicle. Wheeled vehicles are not forced to stay on the roads/pathways most of the time in OFP now.

All in all this could balance the game very much and give more realism at the same time.

Greetz

[BronzeEagle 2]

I think it'd be neat to shoot a gun out the enemy's hands and attach a satchel charge onto the side of something rather than just on the ground. For instance, on the side of a tank or on the side of a wall to blow a nice hole through it.

[drewb99 0]

Something like UT2003's ragdoll physics would be an interesting touch for OFP2 as a performance option.

It'd be quite cool to shoot someone off a building and watch them tumble all the way to the ground

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Please dont suggest things that have already been suggested in the same thread.

[Vladmir 0]

Sorry to bring up the ragdoll again, but I completely agree.....It would personalize each death and further immerse the player, an also would support hitting someone in a car and having thier lifeless body obstruct your view, or carrying bodys to a different locations to hide them........Again sorry but also walking in or on moving vehicles is one of my major things, also the multiple water levels......sorry for bringing all these up again, but i would love to see these implemented for immersions sake.......

Cheers

[Necromancer- 0]

ah... correct topic.. sorry about that, moderators.

..

Anyone remember Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear?

Last time i threw a flashbang too near, I got stunned, blinded and deaf for a few seconds.

About getting deaf... You'd hear your ears ring after you have continiously fired a M249 SAW. Would be nice if this was implemented in the game.

[BronzeEagle 2]

Make it so the gun is only up in the aim position when you zoom in using the right click. That way when the gun is in normal position its around your waste, good for if you're doing a patrol or something. Then patrols look cooler. Honestly, who keeps the gun up in aim position the entire time their standing. It should be down at the waste until you see an enemy. Then you might be saying what happens if you fire and its down at your waste. Easy, it shoots someone to the left! I just think that having the gun come up when you hit zoom is more realistic. Even in the crawl position the gun would be at a 45 degree angle and laying on its side not up in front in the aim during the crawl. Then when you zoom in you'd bring the gun up for aiming. If the animations were done like this it'd be entirely realistic and fights would last longer.

[Gollum1 0]

It'd be quite cool to shoot someone off a building and watch them tumble all the way to the ground

As opposed to you standing in the air and turning all red when you touch the ground like you do now?

[Vladmir 0]

Picking up objects such as bottles and being able to throw them would be cool. Imagine, you are an unarmed escaped pow, you pick up a rock and chuck it at a guards head, knocking him out and allowing you to steal his weapon.

[BronzeEagle 2]

Make it so that when you eject out of a moving vehicle the vehicle keeps moving and you roll along on the ground. That way you can pull a Chuck Norris and plant an explosive on the vehicle and send it rolling into a camp. Or you can call it a little house on the prairie, whatever. But I have this script to put an explosive on a truck then detonate it whenever. It's pretty nice.

Also you should give explosive meter properties to all objects so that if they are shot or damaged to a certain point they blow up. I guess I could do that with scripts but I'd rather just have a little meter like everything else.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Quote[/b] ]I know it was a flight sim, but IL2 had the GREATEST physics....my god, crash landing as hard and spectacular as you could, while still managing to walk away from it was almost a game in itself...

I agree.  Skidding a plane across the ground without landing gear is a lot of fun.

Quote[/b] ]also try and make the tank tracks moreflexible without clipping into the terrain, so you get a nice view of tracks rolling over hills.

Tanks are heavy things.  You've got to realize that heavy armor often leaves deep trenches on dirt roads.

Quote[/b] ]The only thing that would bug me sometimes is when you ram another car, and your car would pass right through.

Agreed.

Quote[/b] ]NO!! Dont do that, thats one of the things i love about ofp, i hate the way you "glide" over the surface in other games. In ofp it feels like a real person you are controlling.

Agreed.  Running across an open field when you're under fire (even from MILES) and loaded down with even a little gear is quite a clumsy-feeling thing.  Often your body will want to go one way and your gear will want to go another.

Quote[/b] ]Change the water physics dammit!!

I want to be able to swim and dive.

Yes, I really miss this from Delta Force 2.  (Did Land Warrior have it?)  Swimming with a Battle Dress Uniform Coat and Trousers is not easy, by the way.  Doing so with boots, kevlar, web gear, and weapon would be incredibly dangerous, I  should think.

Rivers and streams should have current, and I think that there should be an ocean current that encircles the map, especially if it is an island.

Quote[/b] ]Armor facing values.  Tanks have thicker armor in the front than in the back.  There should be a motivation to hit tanks from the side and rear, instead of the arcade set number of shots to kill from any angle.  Even the general public is probably aware of this after hearing about the M1's rear-end vulnerability in Iraq.

Definitely, and though Marek has said that deflection probably won't be in OFP2, I think some sort of deflection should be there...  It's going to be a lot easier to punch a hole in a Sherman tank than through a Merkava, simply because of the angles on the vehicles (not even considering armor quality).  To see an RPG glance off of one of the surfaces of a vehicle would be awesome.

Add in at least a sort of cosmetic ricocheting effect of bullets, as seen in the Knob Creek videos at Bigger Hammer .  Ghost Recon had something like this, I believe.  Ricocheting tracers looping through the air is quite a sight.  (There is video out there of Iraqi troops executing people with AK-47's... tracers are coming BACK at the troops feet!  The wall is maybe 100 feet away.)

Quote[/b] ]More realism on the AFVs and IFVs... in fact, everything..... would be great IMO

Absolute faithfulness to the real-life thing is essential.  Weapons like the HK G3 and FN FAL should shoot the same round as the M60 and the M21... not something weaker, for the sake of "balance".  Realism balances out the weapons, just fine.

Add to that jamming and malfunctions.  The weapons should have realistic jamming and malfunction ratios.  That is one way to balance weapons realistically.

Quote[/b] ]I'v played paintball, and I can run with my gun almost on target not like in ofp where you can shoot a guy running along side you when your runing becuase the guns is swinging all over the place. there is a difference between moving fast and sprinting. Look at AA 3 differnt movement modes slow normal and fast.

Yeah, to some extent this is true, but troops in the 80's weren't trained so much about having a stable firing platform while moving at any speed faster than a run.

Quote[/b] ]How about dynamic wind physics

Yep.

Quote[/b] ]Let's talk about ...

How about some constructive criticism, Peanuckle?  I find your endless lists of nothing but negatives somewhat off-putting.  Can you at least give us examples in other games where these things were implemented well?

Quote[/b] ]I just want some semi realistic water effects, like having water at multiple altitudes. I mean, who wouldn't have fun blowing a dam and running from the ensuing 100 foot wall of water suddenly rushing downstream...

That would be wild!

Quote[/b] ]terrain damage would also be good, it wouldn't have to be too realistic, just show some minor craters and stuff.

I agree.

Quote[/b] ]If you blow a mobile object with about 24 satchel charges, such as a Jeep, it should not turn into a wreckage and fly high into the sky

This is because wind resistance isn't implemented.  Objects behave as if they are in a vacuum.  Large flat polygons should have a horrendous drag coefficient.

Quote[/b] ]If a body dies the weapon they were holding should immediately be dropped.

No, in some cases someone should have to "pry it from [his] cold, dead fingers".  Sometimes a shot soldier should "run away" his weapon, if it is on full-auto.

Quote[/b] ]Kind of OT, but I would also like to see a ragdoll implemented.

I agree.

Quote[/b] ]Being able to "carry" objects in a rucksack (extra ammunition, etc).

I'd also like to seek an increased inventory for soldiers who opt for a rucksack or mountain pack (at the expense of movement speed when carrying it, though).

Quote[/b] ]Ability to increase soldier armor value through body armor (flak jackets in VN).

Yep.  

Quote[/b] ]Differing quality of night vision equipment (i.e. a AN/PVS-4 is not the same as a later model PVS-7, and generally speaking, compared to Western equivalents, Eastbloc NV equipment stank).

Thermal observation equipment mode. The biggest difference between West and Eastbloc armor (in reality) lay not just in armor value but targeting aquisition and fire control. The West had moved to thermal viewers more than a decade before the East even began experimenting with it. They are still woefully behind today. The East didn't lack for using passive NV for target aquisition, but it runs a very distant 2nd place when compared to what thermal viewers can do.

I realise, though for reasons of balanced play, they may have purposely left this off.

Oh, and how about true "indirect" fire ability. A 155mm HE/DPICM, when fired at a target 25 K's away should be hit by that 155mm.

All good points.

Quote[/b] ]Flak jackets do not provide any protection from small arms fire, they just hold you together a bit better till you can see a medic.

They're good for catching shrapnel from grenades and RPG's.

Quote[/b] ]Quote (Jinef @ 09 May 2003,18:15)

Also making the AI fire their rifles at helicopters would be good.

I second that, it's really really odd flying an Mi24 in this game... oops, simulator.

Skilled troops will know better than to shoot at a Hind with small arms.  That's suicide.  An Mi-17 is another matter... Squads are trained to lead helos by 1 football field and jets by 2 football fields, even with assault rifles.

Quote[/b] ]- of course realistic physics, so ground vehicles can NOT go up hills steper than 45°. (usually much lesser)

I've seen a dirt bike go up 4 or 5 stories of an almost vertical incline.  Looked like suicide, to me.  A Hummer can also go up a very steep incline.  Wheelbase and low center of gravity make a difference, as does the number of tires and the tire footprint size.

Quote[/b] ]- Even soldiers walking speed should be influenced by different grounds

Yeah, movement through the woods needs to be slowed.

'Nade explosions need to go off at any altitude.

Quote[/b] ]You'd hear your ears ring after you have continiously fired a M249 SAW. Would be nice if this was implemented in the game.

Yeah, I burned through full magazines of blanks with an M16A1 and my ears were ringing for 2 days.

Quote[/b] ]Picking up objects such as bottles and being able to throw them would be cool. Imagine, you are an unarmed escaped pow, you pick up a rock and chuck it at a guards head, knocking him out and allowing you to steal his weapon.

Yep.  Rocks should be readily available for pick-up from the ground and available for throwing.

--Uziyahu-IDF

http://www.idfsquad.com/