feedback Gunplay and Infantry feels too Arcady, ideas to add some depth and grittyness

[welcome to hell 23]

First of all want to say that this aspect of ArmA series has been much improved from previous tittles but is missing the gritty feeling of other Tactical shooters of the genre, SQUAD, Project Reality, Hell Let Loose, Post Scriptum, etc

Feedback Tracker Ticket
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T167121
 
Some Ideas to improve the "feel" of gunplay / infantry

Weapon RECOIL
- Overall recoil feels pretty ok, allthough could be a bit more while standing unsupported
- Add VERY SNAPPY (barely noticable) amount of camera recoil impulse based on ratio of weapon weight to ammo caliber and weapon attachments (ex Squad, Hell Let Loose, Project Reality)
- Impulse has to be very snappy and short and be over before you can think about it (Anyone who fired a gun IRL with cheek rested on the stock will know what I mean)
 

Weapon Resting / Deployment
- This is a must for all weapons not just the ones with bipods
- Resting for all weapons
- Resting of Left / Right sides of the gun on objects such as walls, ex:


Weapon Sway
- Weapon sway is basically not a thing in Reforger
- Increase weapon sway while standing un-supported
- Would accompany proper weapon resting / deployment
- Make it so you actually have to think about instead of just standing up in the open spraying full auto like in COD / Battlefield / PUBG 
- Make stamina actually matter when it comes to weapon sway

Weapon Suppression / Explosives Supression
- This is a must IMO
- Add bullet supression from other games (SQUAD, Hell Let Loose, Project Reality, Post Scriptum, etc) based on the weapon cailber
- Good change to PVP,  eg Conflict
- Should also work on supressing AI
- Makes firefights longer and more enjoyable, encourages team work, instead of current Arcade flow

Weapon Muzzle Effects
- Make muzzle flashes for small arms cast a bit more light on surrounding objects while in a dark shadow, inside of a building during the day based on the Muzzle Device, obviously muzle breaks > flash hiders > supressors
- Flash hiders are good at hiding flash it is true, however they still give off light IRL to nearby objects shooting in an indoor range. Youtube videos do not do it justice
- Muzzle flashes for weapons such as the .50 CAL and KPVT should give off a lot more light to surrounding objects especially the KPVT during the day
- Add physics force emitters and effects to muzzle devices that would kick up dust / dirt / trash / foilage, etc based on the muzzle device and the materials of the objects surrounding the muzzle
- Make the smoke puffs from weapons stay around for A little bit longer

Weapon Ammo Counter
- Get rid of live updating ammo counter on the bottom right
- Add check mag functionallity with something like "Alt+R" or some other key, where the character checks the mag
- The magazine bullet counter icon would update only after checking the mag

Weapon Sounds
- I think overall these are a great
- Shot sounds could maybe have A LITTLE more "POP" to them, and a little more "POP" in the reverb
- Shot sounds could be A LITTLE louder,
- Currently gunfire just does not give you that "Oh Crap"/"Grittyness"/"Danger" feeling that games like SQUAD and Project Reality do
- There is already a sound mod "War Tapes", which makes things louder, it is indescribable how much it changes the feeling / percieved danger of a firefight

Launchers
- Add backblast damage to launchers
- Add a snappy Lighting flash to launchers to light up the surrounding objects from backblast when fired
- Add sizable physics force emitters and effects to launchers that would kick up dust / dirt / foilage from backblast when fired
- More smoke from launchers, make smoke puffs from launchers stay around much longer
- This way you actually have to think when and where you fire from

Grenades
- Grandes are pretty much useless, you can stand 2-3 meters away looking right at it and it will not even leave a scratch
- Increase shrapnel range for thrown and underbarelled Grenades to their realistic values
- Add short and bright flash to grenade explosions lighting up everything nearby
- Add physics emitters throwing up dust and dirt in addition to the current generic effect
- Add a single VERY SHORT AND SNAPPY camera shake impulse and very short ear ringing or sound fading out effect based on proximity to explosion eg Grenade, RPG backblast, etc
 
Bullet impact VFX
- Needs work most of the effects seem the same with different color. I would look at SQUAD as en example, their VFX is pretty good
- Metal impacts / sparks emit light to surround objects

Stamina / Climbing Walls
- This is a great addition to ArmA however right now feels way too arcady
- Climbing animation should be 2-3X longer or even more if the player is carrying a lot of weight
- Should not be allowed to climb if not enough stamina 
- Cost of stamina to climb should increase with weight of carried items
- Add feature from Post Scriptum to drink water from Canteen to rapidly replenish stamina

Character Movement
- Separate Sprinting from Jogging/Running
- Put character in the weapon down Jogging animation on the last "Scroll Wheel Up" setting regardless if the primary weapon is on safety or not
- Separate Animation for Sprinting maybe with the weapon held in 1 hand muzzle up like in "Ground Branch" or just on the side like in "Hell let Loose" or "Red Orchestra 2"
- Separate Animation vs just sped-up JOG/Run would make it obvious that sprinting is "Very Fast movement mode with Limited duration" vs I will just hold down Shift and end up jogging anyway
- Biggest problem is characters are able to JOG Sideways at high speed while firing accuratley down the sights, resulting in circle-jerk Counter-Strike fights
- Couple of solutions:
- Substantially increase weapon sway while side-strafing at high speed
- Do not allow players to look down the sights while strafing at high speed
- Automatically slow down players to a reasonable, much lower side-strafe speed when player looks down the iron sights while side-strafing

Footsteps
- Could be a LITTLE bit louder
- Increase the range of footsteps sound, so they can be heard from further away
- Seems like footstep sounds for some materials are missing?
- Add wet variation to footstep sounds, when the ground mateiral is wet, it would mix in or play different footstep sound

Hills / Mountain Terrain
- Movement in mountain / hill terrain makes no difference to flat or open fields
- Characters are able to run up way too steep of a slope
- Characters Sprint FULL SPEED up incredibly steep grades, this is cheesy
- Movement up hill makes no difference to stamina?
- High ground should be an advantage and difficult to attack requiring you to think about the approach instead of just YOLO sprinting full speed up a cliff

Foilage / Bushes / Tree branches
- Most bushes / Tree branches missing sound when player runs through them, add sounds for moving through all foilage
- Sound of movement through foilage / crop fields / bushes / tree branches needs to be LOUDER, heard from MUCH FURTHER away,
- Add sounds of branches / wood cracking and snapping, and rebounding when walking through bushes and thickets
- Thick Bushes need to be an obstacle, slowing character movement down SIGNIFICANTLY, should not be able to sprint full speed through thick bushes, way too arcady
- Add animations of bushes / branches moving around when disturbed by characters
- Make it so you actually have to think about it sneaking up on players / AI instead of rushing full sprint
- Add sounds and animations of bushes / foilage / thickets / branches disturbed by vehicles "SpinTires Mudrunner" is a great example
- Trees / bushes should not just fall down when hit by vehicles, but should deflect away from the vehicle with sounds "SpinTires Mudrunner" as an example

Wind Effects
- Tree branches / Bush deflection /  Wind sound is too small for moderate winds, needs to be increased
- 7 m/s is around 13.6 knots and foilage is barely moving until turned up to 15m/s or ~30 knots

[ohNeily 2]

On 8/13/2022 at 9:22 AM, welcome to hell said:

Some Ideas to improve the "feel" of gunplay / infantry

Weapon RECOIL
- Overall recoil feels pretty ok, allthough could be a bit more while standing unsupported
- Add VERY SNAPPY (barely noticable) amount of camera recoil impulse based on ratio of weapon weight to ammo caliber and weapon attachments (ex Squad, Hell Let Loose, Project Reality)
- Impulse has to be very snappy and short and be over before you can think about it (Anyone who fired a gun IRL with cheek rested on the stock will know what I mean)
 

Weapon Resting / Deployment
- This is a must for all weapons not just the ones with bipods
- Resting for all weapons
- Resting of Left / Right sides of the gun on objects such as walls, ex:

Character Movement
- Separate Sprinting from Jogging/Running
- Put character in the weapon down Jogging animation on the last "Scroll Wheel Up" setting regardless if the primary weapon is on safety or not
- Separate Animation for Sprinting maybe with the weapon held in 1 hand muzzle up like in "Ground Branch" or just on the side like in "Hell let Loose" or "Red Orchestra 2"
- Separate Animation vs just sped-up JOG/Run would make it obvious that sprinting is "Very Fast movement mode with Limited duration" vs I will just hold down Shift and end up jogging anyway
- Biggest problem is characters are able to JOG Sideways at high speed while firing accuratley down the sights, resulting in circle-jerk Counter-Strike fights
- Couple of solutions:
- Substantially increase weapon sway while side-strafing at high speed
- Do not allow players to look down the sights while strafing at high speed
- Automatically slow down players to a reasonable, much lower side-strafe speed when player looks down the iron sights while side-strafing

Weapon Sway
- Weapon sway is basically not a thing in Reforger
- Increase weapon sway while standing un-supported
- Would accompany proper weapon resting / deployment
- Make it so you actually have to think about instead of just standing up in the open spraying full auto or unloading your semi auto shotgun like in COD / Battlefield / PUBG 
- Make stamina actually matter when it comes to weapon sway

Grenades
- Grandes are pretty much useless, you can stand 2-3 meters away looking right at it and it will not even leave a scratch
- Increase shrapnel range for thrown and underbarelled Grenades to their realistic values
- Add short and bright flash to grenade explosions lighting up everything nearby
- Add physics emitters throwing up dust and dirt in addition to the current generic effect
- Add a single VERY SHORT AND SNAPPY camera shake impulse and very short ear ringing or sound fading out effect based on proximity to explosion eg Grenade, RPG backblast, etc
 
Bullet impact VFX
- Needs work most of the effects seem the same with different color. I would look at SQUAD as en example, their VFX is pretty good
- Metal impacts / sparks emit light to surround objects

Stamina / Climbing Walls
- This is a great addition to ArmA however right now feels way too arcady
- Climbing animation should be 2-3X longer or even more if the player is carrying a lot of weight
- Should not be allowed to climb if not enough stamina 
- Cost of stamina to climb should increase with weight of carried items
- Add feature from Post Scriptum to drink water from Canteen to rapidly replenish stamina

 

Agree on a lot of points, especially recoil while unsupported and addint a bit camera snap while shooting higher calibers. Grenades and stamina are really good suggestions too(especially grenades, it's would be night and day difference).

[Janez 530]

@ohNeily, you don't have to quote all that just to write one sentence, especially if yours is the next post. You can use @ to tag someone or quote relevant parts.

[Joulupukki3000 3]

My small idea for adding immersion to game:

 

[DINHOVV 0]

I play post scriptum and with my experience I can say these changes that you mentioned are perfect, it would greatly increase the level of the game weapon refoger it would be the main war simulator in the world of games today.
the bohoemia team has a knife and cheese in hand to transform this game.

[bugeater36 14]

I think another thing that would be cool is to have optional 'free aim', similar to Rising Storm 2 and Insurgency.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Honestly, all they need to do is bring back the interia from Arma 3 and we're good. They did an excellent job with gunplay, especially after the Marksman DLC, but Arma 3 gunplay always felt the most satisfying.

[kev2go 9]

I think recoil is fine  especially when you consider that interim calibers like 5.56 or 5.45  are supposed to be pretty low recoil and be able to shoot pretty tight groupings in semi auto. Instead of comparing to other games that use "balance" go shoot a AR15 or Ak74 family IRL, and realize why the recoil is as low as has been so far. 

 This has changed in the experimental build, and i noticed a increase in recoil even when stamina is fully rested, as well as additional weapon sway when you have low stamina or have injuries on the arms. So congrats those who wanted more recoil will get it. 

 

[BigAndSloppy 0]

On 5/6/2023 at 1:58 PM, CaptainAzimuth said:

Honestly, all they need to do is bring back the interia from Arma 3 and we're good. They did an excellent job with gunplay, especially after the Marksman DLC, but Arma 3 gunplay always felt the most satisfying.

I agree, furthermore I'd also like to see item/weapon attachments handled similar to arma 3 but thats for another discussion on another day...

[twisted 128]

 

100% the gunplay and the running feel arcadey, janky and about 20 years out of date.

 

 

[stburr91 1002]

This is one of the many big disappointments about reforger, it's the same outdated, clunky gameplay as Arma 3. 

[xKAGEONIx 1]

Yeah, its true and I was hoping for an imersive player controller with a new engine. Maybe its just what BI knows, maybe its some sort of limitation of the engine and inherent to all large scale games

 

If the infantry combat felt like Squad or Tarkov it would make the new gen ARMA games amazing. 

[steffenbk1 10]

With the ICO update in squad the game feels a lot better infantry wise, where you cant just go run and gun easliy. Rally hope they will add a lot of your points and also try to make something like other mil-sim games as mentioned(squad, hll)

[bigshot 64]

It is now mid February 2024 - just curious to know if they have added any of the modifications suggested by the OP six months ago?