CSLA Iron Curtain Unofficial discussion

[Private Evans 498]

However I've got a dlc and two decent cold war factions for the price of two large beers...do I think the price should be lowered under 10 Euros as long as there is no more content...yes....do I think no dlc should be released without a proper camapaign...yes...but this hate is simply stupid...

I really like the Prairie Fire dlc..it is immersive as fuck and provides a ton of cool new features....but the map is regarding QA a complete desaster as soon as you leave coop fighting in the jungles...a real shame to sell something like this ...the amount of vehicles is also not massive and there is a lot of stuff that is buggy or not matching the otherwise overall high standarts....not to speak about a massive reuse of A2 and A3 assets.....so this is not real fair to the devs from GM and CSLA...in my eyes at least...

 

The biggest mistake was to sell this without a single player campaign..everybody was waiting for somekind of OFP like story....so BI should learn from this lesson when working with the creator dlc teams....

 

Also people probably have a complete wrong vision of the cold war aera...and absolutely no understanding of how the countries really looked like at that time. The border regions in both directions were boring as hell... as shown in both cold war dlc's just forests, fields and plaines..farms, villages and little towns which were not even highly populated because people do not really want to live there, Infrastructure especially in the east was miserable...in Western Germany the area at the border was called Zonenrandgebiet. It was 40 km deep...Military was boring the same way...no fancy camoflage pattern...no shiny spec ops stuff etc...it was all about one side having an massive amount of tanks and armoured vehicles ( a great part not in working condition) and the other side  was all about destroying tanks and armored vehicles.....that's it...until the point Nato would have nuked complete Germany with nuclear mines in case the russians would have managed to breach the Fuld Gap and reach Frankfurt ansd the River Rhine...and again one part of nato strategies was to use highways as airstrips....

 

 

[Private Evans 498]

38 minutes ago, Weisssbrot said:

 

Weferlingen is accurate, i can proof this as a german, but Gabreta is not accurate compared to Weferlingen, there is so much wich was shortened.

 

When I say accurate I am speaking about how the areas have looked like, may it be the North German Plain or the Czech Borderegion to Bavaria. I am not speaking about 1:1 recreations.

[spooky lynx 73]

8 hours ago, zukov said:

in cold war the airports was the primary target for both aviations (if I remember well the "frontal aviations" in URSS called Frontovaya Aviatsiya – FA). It,s also the main reason for the UK to design the Harrier

I'm talking about this thing:

When the highway magically turns into the airfield.

[finnnk 1]

9 minutes ago, spooky lynx said:

I'm talking about this thing:

When the highway magically turns into the airfield.

Check out the video I posted earlier in thread, it’s pretty much exactly as above.

[Private Evans 498]

Again.... it has been part of Nato strategy to use Highways as Airstrips, which includes turning them into something like this....you would not find this in peace time of course ! But in case of a mobilisation civil traffic would have been more or less forbidden, civil trucks etc would have been to handed over to the military especial the reserve units and also highways would have been prepared to be changed into improvised airfields. What you you see here on the map reflects a situation when both side have mobilized and are ready for war.

[Weisssbrot 8]

2 hours ago, Private Evans said:

However I've got a dlc and two decent cold war factions for the price of two large beers...do I think the price should be lowered under 10 Euros as long as there is no more content...yes....do I think no dlc should be released without a proper camapaign...yes...but this hate is simply stupid...

I really like the Prairie Fire dlc..it is immersive as fuck and provides a ton of cool new features....but the map is regarding QA a complete desaster as soon as you leave coop fighting in the jungles...a real shame to sell something like this ...the amount of vehicles is also not massive and there is a lot of stuff that is buggy or not matching the otherwise overall high standarts....not to speak about a massive reuse of A2 and A3 assets.....so this is not real fair to the devs from GM and CSLA...in my eyes at least...

 

The biggest mistake was to sell this without a single player campaign..everybody was waiting for somekind of OFP like story....so BI should learn from this lesson when working with the creator dlc teams....

 

Also people probably have a complete wrong vision of the cold war aera...and absolutely no understanding of how the countries really looked like at that time. The border regions in both directions were boring as hell... as shown in both cold war dlc's just forests, fields and plaines..farms, villages and little towns which were not even highly populated because people do not really want to live there, Infrastructure especially in the east was miserable...in Western Germany the area at the border was called Zonenrandgebiet. It was 40 km deep...Military was boring the same way...no fancy camoflage pattern...no shiny spec ops stuff etc...it was all about one side having an massive amount of tanks and armoured vehicles ( a great part not in working condition) and the other side  was all about destroying tanks and armored vehicles.....that's it...until the point Nato would have nuked complete Germany with nuclear mines in case the russians would have managed to breach the Fuld Gap and reach Frankfurt ansd the River Rhine...and again one part of nato strategies was to use highways as airstrips....

 

 

 

And still the CDLC is a mod sold as CDLC, BI said once they dont want to sell mod projects as CDLCs, now CSLA was announced as mod for Arma 3 in 2013 and still they sold it as CDLC and even with the same quality and less content as the mod for Arma 2 and announced mod for Arma 3 should have, sorry but i cant understand how people seriously can defend this here.

 

GM was unjustified judged as Copy Paste CDLC, but this here is a true Copy Paste CDLC wich never should got a CDLC.

[Weisssbrot 8]

1 hour ago, finnnk said:

Check out the video I posted earlier in thread, it’s pretty much exactly as above.

 

I think this was a easy solution to avoid ai brain fug, a airfield wich can be used by ai dont need a airfield texture, wich means that a possible solution could be to create two diffrent roads next to each other (the highway) and dropping on them the airfield marker as they did it with Altis Airfield where two airfields were placed next to each other, since ai in a ground vehicle (how i believe) ignores airfields the highway airfield could be used by ground ai and by air ai since air ai only need locations mentioned in the config to land and taxi the plane, if you look at GM you have the airfield module wich allows you to create on a meadow a airfield.

[Private Evans 498]

Unsung has been a mod for ages and even the Battle for Hue was announced as a side mod project by them....so you could also argue Savage could have included the new map and the SOG stuff in their existing mod for free....

IFA3 which seems to be also coming out as a creator dl has been not only its own game but a mod for years...beside the fact that there are jillions of WWII mods out there....so what...

If Red Hammer Studios would bring us the Katya terrain and a campaign with it I gladly would pay for it too...even if the factions are avaible as a mod....

 

Most of the guys are around here and modding since OFP so they deserve to earn some money for the thousands of hours of free content...

 

[Private Evans 498]

And to end the discussion about the air strip...this has been even a part of Nato  exercises during the 80 ies...

 

[Weisssbrot 8]

8 hours ago, Private Evans said:

Unsung has been a mod for ages and even the Battle for Hue was announced as a side mod project by them....so you could also argue Savage could have included the new map and the SOG stuff in their existing mod for free....

IFA3 which seems to be also coming out as a creator dl has been not only its own game but a mod for years...beside the fact that there are jillions of WWII mods out there....so what...

If Red Hammer Studios would bring us the Katya terrain and a campaign with it I gladly would pay for it too...even if the factions are avaible as a mod....

 

Most of the guys are around here and modding since OFP so they deserve to earn some money for the thousands of hours of free content...

 

 

Yes and no, thats the flavor i dont like about SOG and CSLA but at least Savage delivered alot own modelled stuff meanwhile we get with CSLA the mod for Arma 3 wich has less content and less quality, in SOG PF except the map and some few units nothing rest on former Arma vanilla stuff meanwhile CSLA was developed as mod and rest alot on edited Arma stuff and the most wich i hate about it are the direct ports, at the end between both SOG PF and CSLA is a big gap and i think its just not acceptable and i think this knows BI too.

[Fanatic72 181]

Just to add to the improvised airfield topic. Here is a link to google maps: https://goo.gl/maps/JuYvyxsRuNQqS1HP7 That is present day Czech Republic.

This cDLC is a little bit of a disaster but the map is very authentic and looks very much like the real life counterpart did.

[Weisssbrot 8]

3 hours ago, Fanatic72 said:

Just to add to the improvised airfield topic. Here is a link to google maps: https://goo.gl/maps/JuYvyxsRuNQqS1HP7 That is present day Czech Republic.

This cDLC is a little bit of a disaster but the map is very authentic and looks very much like the real life counterpart did.

 

This improvised airfield is in West Germany and wonder it never existed (so far to authentic) 🙂

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Haidmühle/@48.8361913,13.6589506,17866m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x4774952300750ba5:0x41d25a40937bcf0!8m2!3d48.8256782!4d13.7767804

 

My navigation source:

3:24

 

All improvised airfields on highways in West Germany:

https://www.mil-airfields.de/aa-welt/autobahn-notlandeplaetze/index.html

 

A video wich shows you that also in the west improvised airfields had no buildings like hangars or atc, it was all wheeled and mobile:

 

[Weisssbrot 8]

3 hours ago, Fanatic72 said:

Here is a link to google maps: https://goo.gl/maps/JuYvyxsRuNQqS1HP7 That is present day Czech Republic.

 

Yep, but thats kind of cheating since the highway wasnt there in 1980, they build the highway over the airfield and used the highway as airstripe so its kind of a exception here.

 

https://www.mil-airfields.de/cz-tschechien/vyskov-flugplatz.htm

[Private Evans 498]

Honestly Weisssbrot...what the fuck  are you trying to tell us...As clearly shown NATO has used this a stragegy during the cold war and OF COURSE they did not build Hangars or Buildings during exercises, so we will never know how it would have looked like in every case and scenario...What we know for sure is that there were detailed plans to use selected and prepared locations to convert them into fully functiong Air strips ! This could and I guess would also have included building Hangars, barracks at some point depending on the situation and location. 

Using this knowledge to provide NATO an functioning Air Strip on this map is in my eyes an absolutely clever and perfect solution even if the location is fictional. 

We should all know by now, that even maps based on real life locations have to be edited and tweaked for gameplay purposes and limitations in scale.

So I can not understand this desperate try to cheapen the good work of the CLSA devs in this regard. 

 

[KB-03 1]

Just dropping in for a few words: Great resources in this thread!

[Fanatic72 181]

 

 

9 hours ago, Weisssbrot said:

 

Yep, but thats kind of cheating since the highway wasnt there in 1980, they build the highway over the airfield and used the highway as airstripe so its kind of a exception here.

 

https://www.mil-airfields.de/cz-tschechien/vyskov-flugplatz.htm

That highway was built at the end of the 80s. Blame communism for that. Ever since the 70s they had a plan to build about 15 of highway airfields but in reality they only managed to build like 3 with only a single one actually used for exercises etc. Not all of them had hangars obviously, but as you can see some were built alongside old airfields that had no paved runways because it was convenient. All of these projects had additional paved areas alongside the highway for planes to park at which are nowadays used mostly for fuel stations.

This is the one that was actually in use back in the day and is still officialy a substitute airfield today.
https://en.mapy.cz/s/refutogoze
 

The next one is the one we already mentioned and then there is this one which was clearly finished but its no longer airfield ready with the vegetation strip in the middle.
https://en.mapy.cz/letecka?x=13.6001221&y=49.7551259&z=16

I know these are in the Czech Republic and not in Germany, but as you already saw this practice was used by both sides. The map in CSLA is obviously not 1:1 and that airfield or maybe even the highway might not be accurate but its not at all far fetched or unrealistic to include them. Also the little detail where the highway ends on the border and becomes a shitty road on the Czechoslovakian side is great. 😄 

[Weisssbrot 8]

2 hours ago, Private Evans said:

Honestly Weisssbrot...what the fuck  are you trying to tell us...As clearly shown NATO has used this a stragegy during the cold war and OF COURSE they did not build Hangars or Buildings during exercises, so we will never know how it would have looked like in every case and scenario...What we know for sure is that there were detailed plans to use selected and prepared locations to convert them into fully functiong Air strips ! This could and I guess would also have included building Hangars, barracks at some point depending on the situation and location. 

Using this knowledge to provide NATO an functioning Air Strip on this map is in my eyes an absolutely clever and perfect solution even if the location is fictional. 

We should all know by now, that even maps based on real life locations have to be edited and tweaked for gameplay purposes and limitations in scale.

So I can not understand this desperate try to cheapen the good work of the CLSA devs in this regard. 

 

 

I am not sure where it was but you said SOG PF has a fictional map but CSLA is much more realistic/authentic, i proven now several times that this is wrong and in comparison the map of SOG PF is stil alot more authentic and realistic since its a shrunken map of Vietnam, Camobodia and Laos wich has nearly no fictional locations, really it sucks that you have in every Arma Forum this fanboays wich try to defend something down to the most stupid reasons and arguments.

 

CSLA map is not authentic and not realistic.

 

2 hours ago, Private Evans said:

So I can not understand this desperate try to cheapen the good work of the CLSA devs in this regard.

 

Cause its not good work like the whole CDLC is not good work, Cam Lao Nam and Weferlingen were good work but Gabreta just isnt in comparison.

[kozzy420 21]

New Creator DLC is really bad, especially compared to PF which was just fantastic.

Other than the new map being cool, everything else is meh, very poor release imo, especially after I loved PF so much.

 

Actually, PF for me was up there with the best of BI's expansions/DLC's such as Arrowhead and Tanoa, thats how good of a job that modding team did. BI needs some more quality control for these creator DLC, because the difference in quality between these last two has been night and day.

[Fanatic72 181]

3 hours ago, Weisssbrot said:

 

I am not sure where it was but you said SOG PF has a fictional map but CSLA is much more realistic/authentic, i proven now several times that this is wrong and in comparison the map of SOG PF is stil alot more authentic and realistic since its a shrunken map of Vietnam, Camobodia and Laos wich has nearly no fictional locations, really it sucks that you have in every Arma Forum this fanboays wich try to defend something down to the most stupid reasons and arguments.

 

CSLA map is not authentic and not realistic.

 

 

Cause its not good work like the whole CDLC is not good work, Cam Lao Nam and Weferlingen were good work but Gabreta just isnt in comparison.

If you want to be taken seriously than you should put more effort into your replies. All your unrealistic and non-authentic claims are based on that one improvised airfield which was already proven to be a fairly realistic possibility so its a very lame argument. The rest of the map uses authentic buildings and objects from the 80s time period and looks very much like its real life counterpart which you can simply look up on google maps. It obviously has some gameplay focused modifications which you might not like. But I prefer that over an ultra-realistic map like Weferlingen which has basically no military installations and you have to build everything yourself.

No map is perfect, there is always something you can dislike about it. But if you wanna act like Weferlingen or Cam Lao Nam are miles above Gabreta in quality or authenticity then you are extremely biased since you probably consider Tanoan buildings on a 60s Vietnam map more authentic than the realistic buildings on Gabreta.

[Private Evans 498]

Btw I played around in the editor..you can easily hide the two hangars and barracks and instantly get an completely improvised Air strip...what I would recommend the devs to do...it is even cooler 🙂 and you avoid obsolete discussions xD

 

 

[Private Evans 498]

The thing I am wondeing about is, why this hasty release...with no anouncement, no advertising and obviously so many short comings. I find this strange...could it be that CLSA was simply forced to release, because of BI is going to release something on their ownsoon which has a similar cold war setting ?????

[zukov 490]

43 minutes ago, Private Evans said:

The thing I am wondeing about is, why this hasty release...with no anouncement, no advertising and obviously so many short comings. I find this strange...could it be that CLSA was simply forced to release, because of BI is going to release something on their ownsoon which has a similar cold war setting ?????

Arma Reforger on enfusion? on 22 june surely somenthing will happen

[W0lle 1052]

Yes. But most probably neither an announcement on A4 nor an Arma Reforger release.

The speculations about the cDLC release are exactly that, speculations. And honestly they lead to nothing. The release is what it is. It will be better.

Bashing the developers on a daily basis, sometimes from people who openly admit that they don't own the cDLC is pointless. Constructive feedback is.

[haleks 8212]

1 hour ago, Private Evans said:

could it be that CLSA was simply forced to release, because of BI is going to release something on their ownsoon which has a similar cold war setting ?????

 

I really doubt that. That kind of setting is a bit overdone for Arma... Besides, I think BIS made it clear that Arma3 is in maintenance mode.

[stburr91 1009]

2 hours ago, Private Evans said:

The thing I am wondeing about is, why this hasty release...with no anouncement, no advertising and obviously so many short comings. I find this strange...could it be that CLSA was simply forced to release, because of BI is going to release something on their ownsoon which has a similar cold war setting ?????

 

There was nothing rushed about this, the CDLC was first under development for years as a mod, then years as a CDLC, and another 6-7 months longer after BI told them to fix it after canceling the release last year. 

 

CLSA had ample time to complete this project, they simply failed to deliver a quality product. BI knew the state of this project, and released it anyway, so they deserve criticism as much as  CLSA does. BI stated there would be strict quality control in place to ensure that the CDLCs would be of a high quality, BI failed in that regard. 

 

BI appeared to just say F it, and released the CDLC, whether it was because they know CLSA was never going to fix the problems, or because they have their own game they will be announcing this year, I don't know, but I guess we'll find out later this year. 

 

 

57 minutes ago, haleks said:

 

I really doubt that. That kind of setting is a bit overdone for Arma... Besides, I think BIS made it clear that Arma3 is in maintenance mode.

 

BI themselves have provided screenshots of a eastern European terrain that looks to be set in the cold war era. BI has also confirmed that they do have a game that is in development that is on the new Enfusion engine. A leak earlier this year showed pictures of cold war era military assets, and an eastern European terrain that looks identical to the pics of the terrain BI posted themselves. It seems almost certain that BI does have a cold war era game in development that will be on the Enfusion engine.