The Iraq Thread

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 30 April 2003,22:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 30 April 2003,15:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In other news:

War crime charges against Gen. Franks?<span id='postcolor'>

Have Belgian lawyers ever heard the legal term forum non conveniens?<span id='postcolor'>

I had to look it up

True, but that should go for USA as well considering that the military war tribunals are just as outrageous as the Belgian claim. The difference is that Belgium is not going to hunt down suspected war criminals all over the world, while USA is doing that. Belgium is of no conequence. The worst thing that could happen to Franks is that he won't be able to go to Belgium. At most a minor inconvenience since the NATO headquarters are there. Politically it would be embarrassing, but nothing of substance would happen.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 30 April 2003,22:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir,

Regarding the movie,  I never got the impression that they were trying to depict all Muslims or Arabs or whatever as being terrorists.  I think you are doing some projection there methinks. The focus was on Sam Jackson and the horrible consequence of the decision he made.  Naturally, the whole story revolves around who saw what and whether or not he was justified in returning fired.  Since you can't seem to get past the ethnic makeup of the particular groups, perhap they should refilm it in a fantasyland and paint the soldiers turquoise and the protestors magenta so you don't instantly attach biases to the groups in the movie.<span id='postcolor'>

Please, they show a ten year old one-legged girl with an AK-47 shooting at US marines. And you're telling me I'm making projections.

Suppose that the protesters had been Americans protesting.. well, say at the French embassy. Would you picture little ten year old Timmy who plays baseball in the little league shooting at French soldiers with an m16? Or Alice, the suburbian house wife throwing grenades at French embassy personel?

Did you not notice that they did not give any REASON for the protests. They did not explain why those people were there, just that they are Arabs who hate Americans and want to kill them. And that it includes the women and children.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 30 April 2003,16:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Please, they show a ten year old one-legged girl with an AK-47 shooting at US marines. And you're telling me I'm making projections.

Suppose that the protesters had been Americans protesting.. well, say at the French embassy. Would you picture little ten year old Timmy who plays baseball in the little league shooting at French soldiers with an m16? Or Alice, the suburbian house wife throwing grenades at French embassy personel?<span id='postcolor'>

Are you trying to say that children terrorists are not feasible within the human race?  I could disprove that with a number of examples.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did you not notice that they did not give any REASON for the protests.<span id='postcolor'>

There's no reason to have it.  It's not relevant to the case against Jackson.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 30 April 2003,22:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Are you trying to say that children terrorists are not feasible within the human race?  I could disprove that with a number of examples.<span id='postcolor'>

Please do. There are I am sure a few examples, but as a general rule: women and especially children in protests and demonstrations are not terrorists.

What I am afraid of is that some less bright US troops have seen this movie and think that the situation it showed is possible or even plausible and that they will act accordingly.  

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Please, they show a ten year old one-legged girl with an AK-47 shooting at US marines. And you're telling me I'm making projections.

<span id='postcolor'>

to be fair, she was firing what was apparently a large pistol

[Jinef 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 30 April 2003,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There's no reason to have it.  It's not relevant to the case against Jackson.<span id='postcolor'>

Well to go offtopic, this is why i find most American media so bloody boring, the plot development is shit and subtlety is out the window for sure.

To create a believable and immersive enviroment you need to give background history, and also to be fair i have seen women and children playing a combatant role, very rarely but it happens. The teenagers in Northern Ireland were annoying little pricks, even more so than normal teengaers due to their tendencies to throw nailbombs at the squaddies etc. In Iraq you need to make the troops seem like helping the people, shooting them ain't gonna convince them.

Although everyone refers to Northern Ireland as this really bad place etc it was full of real care and passion. There would be the gunmen who passionately threw themselves in front of a patrol and got gunned down for their cause and people who came out and washed the blood of blown up squaddies off their houses and the street, caring about their community. Yeah i was being cynical.

But really though it was not uncommom for the squaddies to have affairs, girls risking their lives in some areas just being seen with the British. There was also people who came out and gave the guys cups of tea and chatted about the weather.

Bloody Sunday was very unfortunate, it was a protest against an agreed deregation of the Human rights act by Britain. The soldiers were in the wrong and they had no excuse.

It did remind me though of when the authorities fired in to crowds of anti war protesters in Ohio, i think.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 30 April 2003,19:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ 30 April 2003,11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Have people been noting thecivilian deaths recently?

This has happened twice now, with one BBC reporter saying US forces returned fire after a convoy was attacked with rocks and shoes!

More restraint is needed,as blowing away the 'liberated' is a bad PR move. As for the 'under fire by 200 armed men', they point to a broken window as evidence of the attack! Reverse that, as we see machine gun riddled Iraqis, cars, walls, houses, and blood over the streets. Does that sound like 'well aimed fire'?

Frankly, if the troops are that nervous and trigger happy, they should get some in with a small amount of disipline. 18yr old Jimmy might loose his cool when people are throwing shoes and rocks at him, but if he goes rock and roll with a SAW, then innocent people die. As for the dozy bastard who called it 'defending the Alamo', I'm sure all those 'Mexicans' looked pretty fierce with their shoes and rocks!

Fucking gung ho hicks.<span id='postcolor'>

<!--emo&

Gotta love armchair soldiers who have the clairvoyance to understand what exactly happened without a hint of investigation before any official sources do.

also nice stereotyping you snaggletoothed brit  <span id='postcolor'>

Eh? I received my data from news programs, who had several reporters there. I also saw footage of pumped up US soldiers, explaining how the had 'kicked some ass'.

As for official sources, incidents like this never get reported in full for at least a year or so. Believe me I know from my time in the airforce that certain 'facts' don't get reported straight away.

No where did I mention I knew the exact facts, I merely commented on the footage and reports I saw.

However, I love the way how you dismiss any accusation against the military, the US, or anything that you don't particulary like. Prove me wrong, please.

[blackdog~ 0]

Sorry, I couldn't help myself... hehe.

Saddam Hussein Raps

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 30 April 2003,22:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Suppose that the protesters had been Americans protesting.. well, say at the French embassy. Would you picture little ten year old Timmy who plays baseball in the little league shooting at French soldiers with an m16? Or Alice, the suburbian house wife throwing grenades at French embassy personel?

Did you not notice that they did not give any REASON for the protests. They did not explain why those people were there, just that they are Arabs who hate Americans and want to kill them. And that it includes the women and children.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, if some of you Euros are right about us Americans being warmongering monsters, then sure I can see housewives and children firing their M16A2's and LAAW's at the French.  Old ladies too.  How about church choirs and puppies?

The reason: T

They refuse to call them freedom fries.  I mean, can't they get with the World Domination program?  There's plenty of oil in it for them.  If they don't, can we really be blamed for shooting them?

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 30 April 2003,22:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir,

Regarding the movie,  I never got the impression that they were trying to depict all Muslims or Arabs or whatever as being terrorists.  I think you are doing some projection there methinks. The focus was on Sam Jackson and the horrible consequence of the decision he made.  Naturally, the whole story revolves around who saw what and whether or not he was justified in returning fired.  Since you can't seem to get past the ethnic makeup of the particular groups, perhap they should refilm it in a fantasyland and paint the soldiers turquoise and the protestors magenta so you don't instantly attach biases to the groups in the movie.<span id='postcolor'>

I remember when this movie opened in Australia, they were actually protestors outside the cinema requesting that people boycott the movie and sign a pertition.

It seems like some people of Arabic extraction found the movie quite racist.

[Jinef 2]

Yeah well, racism takes many forms, Britian has quite a lot, but subtle most of the time.

[IceFire 0]

Hey everyone, I just thought I'd mention to all those who were talking about how the US wouln't have the capability to wage this war without significant casualties.

You know who you are, about 6 months ago you were all talking about how we would take on heavy casualties in Baghdad and it would be very costly to American lives.

Well ha ha, we've won. And with very little casualties. You could count our dead on 2 hands, or maybe 4. But hey, all you talking like you were actually knowledgable about how we would be caught up in all this CQB in the streets.

It's all done and over and it's good time we say "Ha ha, told ya so".

So what do you say to that?

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ 01 May 2003,18:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey everyone, I just thought I'd mention to all those who were talking about how the US wouln't have the capability to wage this war without significant casualties.

You know who you are, about 6 months ago you were all talking about how we would take on heavy casualties in Baghdad and it would be very costly to American lives.

Well ha ha, we've won.  And with very little casualties.  You could count our dead on 2 hands, or maybe 4.  But hey, all you talking like you were actually knowledgable about how we would be caught up in all this CQB in the streets.

It's all done and over and it's good time we say "Ha ha, told ya so".

So what do you say to that?<span id='postcolor'>

What I would say would probably get me banned.

What is point to this post?

You gloat, yet you are not in the military nor part of the conflict. Do you think people wanted Us soldiers to die? Do you think we are disapointed?

I thought you posts on eyesight were crazy....

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ 27 April 2003,22:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Okay, I have not read every single psot here lately but I will post my stuff as it's probably unique.

Do any of you feel suspicious that electricity and especially phone communications are due to be restored in Baghdad only in 4-6 months?  I think that if it was a military objective, power could be restored in 1-2 weeks and most phone service in 1 month.  I'm wondering if this delay is a plan to cut off communications for people in Baghdad who would like to organize anything the coalition does not like.  Such as protests, small governments etc.  <span id='postcolor'>

Cnn news near bottom

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A large gas station exploded in flames Thursday in central Baghdad. Witnesses said the blast was triggered by neighborhood residents firing gunshots into the air celebrating the return of electricity to the area. It was not immediately known whether anyone was killed or injured. <span id='postcolor'>

[haunted 0]

Icefire dont be such a bloody child. "Count them only on 2 hands... or maybe 4." Well I'm glad you have no feeling for loss of human life. Put yourself in the shoes of those soldiers wifes, mothers or children, yer I bet they're glad that less people died for a cause they didnt ask for.

Ignorance is the one thing I have against Americans, granted, the majority of you are brilliant people and I know some brilliant Americans, but when you have to put up with people like Icefire who I bet wouldnt know how to cock an M16, let alone fire one, saying oh we're so great, we could win any war, I would ask, what have you done for your country lately?

Another aspect of American arrogance is the soldiers. Anyone see those shots of an American team firing blindly at a house, then LAWing the door, and screaming success? Or the one with the tank gunner telling the camera ahbout his battle, all the while rounds aare going by until he decided to climb back into the safer confines of his M1. Christ. To be honest it comes as no suprise that the Americans haven't exactly had the best of luck "playing away from home" take Panama or the infamouse setting of BlackHawk Down for example.

And lastly, I support this war becasue I believe saddam hussein a major anti-western person who would kill us all if he had the chance, but, it seems suspect (as my magazine of choice, PC Zone put it) that America is intent on world peace, yet instead of going for a country which HAS nukes and countless troops on its border, like North Korea, it goes for a country it SUSPECTS of DEVELOPING NBC Weapons with a rag tag army.

Start the flaming....

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ ,)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ 27 April 2003,22:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Okay, I have not read every single psot here lately but I will post my stuff as it's probably unique.

Do any of you feel suspicious that electricity and especially phone communications are due to be restored in Baghdad only in 4-6 months? I think that if it was a military objective, power could be restored in 1-2 weeks and most phone service in 1 month. I'm wondering if this delay is a plan to cut off communications for people in Baghdad who would like to organize anything the coalition does not like. Such as protests, small governments etc. <span id='postcolor'>

Cnn news near bottom

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A large gas station exploded in flames Thursday in central Baghdad. Witnesses said the blast was triggered by neighborhood residents firing gunshots into the air celebrating the return of electricity to the area. It was not immediately known whether anyone was killed or injured. <span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Especially phone service... anyway to you

EDIT: You are trying to disprove something I do not claim, something I heard from your lovely USA. The theory is mine for the delay on phone service and power also, it took long as well.

I'm gettign alot of spam mail, Ralph did you give out my e-mail to someone?

[Goeth 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ 01 May 2003,19:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's all done and over and it's good time we say "Ha ha, told ya so".

So what do you say to that?<span id='postcolor'>

I would say "Ha ha, it´s not over yet."

[Frisbee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BaronVonRed @ 04 Dec. 2002,13:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Screw Saddam. He's an idiot, and he's a menace to his own country as well as the rest of the world. Shoot him, bomb him, nuke him, but just KILL him! He and his "soldiers" rape and torture anyone whom they please. He is a complete waste of oxygen and he, and all his children should be terminated before they breed again.

Sure the U.S. gets a lot of flack, but you have to expect that when you are the most powerful nation on the planet. It's so easy to forget the victims of his little vacation in Kuwait. Sick and tired of a bunch a whining faggots who have pity on this slob.

The U.S. this, and the U.S. that - whatever, like we care if you think we're not right; at least we got the nuts to back up our words with actions.

Ooooh, look at me, I'm being such a typical macho male - why don't you Saddam supporters try being men for a change....<span id='postcolor'>

Black and white,yes,of course, people try to offer a somewhat independent view,and they're immediately against you....

[booradley60 0]

I felt that since everyone who has posted to any forum has posted to this one that I would post a response myself.  I do support war not with Iraq (everybody keeps saying that) but I do support war with Saddam Hussein's regime.  Those are not one in the same so I wanted to clarify.  While a lot of my fellow Americans support the war, I do feel a lot of flak coming from the other side of the Atlantic.  I'm from America, so you see me as arrogant.  I'm from Alabama, so you (and a majority of this country) see me as a stupid, wife-beating bigot.  I'm sorry some of you think this so I'm going to try to help myself out and tell all my arrogant countrymen to SHUT THE HELL UP!!  The whole "sh*t happens" approach to civilian casulaties is not really helping this country much!  You rob America of its credibility by making stupid, shallow comments.  That might get you a kind laugh at the Klan rally but nobody else wants to hear it!  And to everyone who bashes supporters of the war, please don't judge us by the worst of our kind!

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

The Fallujah Massacre

Here we see US troops defending themselves robustly as they are set upon by a group of rowdy Iraqis some believed to be using previously concealed firearms.

Two injured demonstrators and three men who live across the street said the participants were unarmed and were complaining only about the U.S. occupation of a school.

Accounts of the Iraqi witnesses differed sharply from those of U.S. soldiers based at the school. But what was clear was that the shooting further poisoned already tense relations between U.S. troops who had recently entered the area and residents of Fallujah, 35 miles west of Baghdad.

As several coffins were carried toward cemeteries Tuesday, thousands of enraged people took to the streets to shout slogans denouncing the United States. Hundreds of others gathered outside the school to scream at the soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division.

Many stopped to gaze at lingering reminders of what was, by everyone's account, a fierce volley of gunfire outside the two-story Leader's School: bullet-pocked walls, pools of congealed blood on the sidewalk, confiscated AK-47 assault rifles, a bullet-riddled taxi, and the discarded shoes of a boy who residents said was shot to death.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Bush is speaking.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Thats one word for it.

[Schoeler 0]

The speech was broadcast on the brand new shiny Iraqi TV network too. Not one of his better speeches though, it seemed a bit hastily written for him, and lack of teleprompters on the deck of a carrier really shows. Perfect propaganda setting though, wouldn't you say? Images of Japan's surrender come to mind, and its always good to get a little face time with the troops right?

[haunted 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm from America, so you see me as arrogant.<span id='postcolor'> reread mny post, I know most great americans, but like the saying goes, the minority spoils it for the majority.

[booradley60 0]

sorry guys for the bad choice of words. I didn't mean to call out everybody. I was just trying to point out a widely accepted stereotype.