The Iraq Thread

[haunted 0]

its NP obviously, Im sure you're like 90% of every other american I know online, a decent enough guy, but like I said, almost every day that I play online games I get confronted by some stupid american pre teen.

Eg. this is from a game of Raven Shield I was playing earlier.

LGS_Carlo[CMR] Haunted you know your mum can take 5 dicks up her ass

LGS_larco[CPT] Whats UKA stand for? UK Assholes?

[uKA]Haunted Where are you guys from?

LGS_Larco[CPT] America of course

[uKA]Haunted Of course.....

Then the films dont do you any favours.

Eg. U571. The Americans stealing the enigma code machine? Christ... everyone knows it was the Brits that did it, so why did someone write a film blatantly wrote off the bravery and hardwork of those that died getting machine that helped turn the tide of the war.

And more from WWII... Average American Know Nothing thinking it was only the Americans that won the war, when truth is they had so little supplies after Pearl Harbour, the Brits had to send the Americans aircraft, weapons and supplies to stop it crumbling like France and its counterparts did.

Thats why people have the stereotypes...

[booradley60 0]

I beg to differ. America had a constant train of supplies to Britain before direct American involvement in WWII. Also, not all of our supplies we're destroyed at Pearl Harbor (just most of the planes and Pacific fleet that we had, thanks for the help guys) not to blow America up out of proportion...hell, the Soviets alone fought half of the war. Stalin still toasted to America's industrial might, which is to the extent of my knowledge the backbone of the Allied efforts of WWII I will never concede, however, that Americans saved anybodys ass from total assured defeat (especially after reading about British determination during the Blitz)

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (haunted @ 02 May 2003,04:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... when truth is they had so little supplies after Pearl Harbour, the Brits had to send the Americans aircraft, weapons and supplies to stop it crumbling like France and its counterparts did.<span id='postcolor'>

Umm...what book did you get that from?

Lend-Lease anyone?? Anyone got my back here??

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ 01 May 2003,21:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The speech was broadcast on the brand new shiny Iraqi TV network too. Not one of his better speeches though, it seemed a bit hastily written for him, and lack of teleprompters on the deck of a carrier really shows. Perfect propaganda setting though, wouldn't you say? Images of Japan's surrender come to mind, and its always good to get a little face time with the troops right?<span id='postcolor'>

Is it not amazing, Ralph mentioned power was also just restored at least in parts of Baghdad. Good timing if you ask me.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ 01 May 2003,22:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ ,)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ 27 April 2003,22:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Okay, I have not read every single psot here lately but I will post my stuff as it's probably unique.

Do any of you feel suspicious that electricity and especially phone communications are due to be restored in Baghdad only in 4-6 months?  I think that if it was a military objective, power could be restored in 1-2 weeks and most phone service in 1 month.  I'm wondering if this delay is a plan to cut off communications for people in Baghdad who would like to organize anything the coalition does not like.  Such as protests, small governments etc.  <span id='postcolor'>

Cnn news near bottom

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A large gas station exploded in flames Thursday in central Baghdad. Witnesses said the blast was triggered by neighborhood residents firing gunshots into the air celebrating the return of electricity to the area. It was not immediately known whether anyone was killed or injured. <span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Especially phone service...  anyway    to you  <span id='postcolor'>

you are getting ot the point where everything you hear is getting abit closer to conspiracy theory. maybe you need to open your minds up?

but then again,

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">EDIT: You are trying to disprove something I do not claim, something I heard from your lovely USA.  The theory is mine for the delay on phone service and power also, it took long as well.<span id='postcolor'>

you pretty much said you think reason why power and phones are not in is because of opposition crowd control. you explicitly said,

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think that if it was a military objective, power could be restored in 1-2 weeks and most phone service in 1 month<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm gettign alot of spam mail, Ralph did you give out my e-mail to someone?<span id='postcolor'>

fuck no. you dare to question my professionalism?

[PitViper 0]

I don't agree with Icefire's attitude but he brings up a good point. Alot of the self-described "experts" here and in the media were miles off with their various predictions like being "bogged down in the desert" or a "baghdad as stalingrad" situation.  Two days before Baghdad fell, Denoir was posting Fisk's "Baghdad is impenetrable" article as gospel.  I have yet to hear any professionals who made such statements address how they were so far off with them in an objective manner. I'm waiting in anticipation for old Fisky to address his "impenetrable" bit. As soon as Baghdad fell, the egg was running heavily down these people's faces, so they were grasping desperately for bad news. they latched disproportionately onto the inevitable looting (mountain out of molehill) and the museum bit (which appears to have been done professionally by insiders rather than the mob) in hopes of averting criticism from themselves.

Now.. the job of getting Iraq back on its feet after 25 years of dictatorship will not happen overnight and will need strict attention.  There are several parties at work who may attempt to monkeywrench post-war Iraq because of the severe implications it will mean to them politically. A failure in stabilizing Iraq will be necessary in order to save political face. These parties may likely include France, Germany, Russia, Syria, Iran and lastly, the minority of Islamists in Iraq (and of the region in general).

[FSPilot 0]

I think it's pretty common place to have people try to predict whats going to happen before a war starts, usually to fit their personal political agenda. We saw a lot of that here from both sides.

[PitViper 0]

new museum info...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003....sition=

[Acecombat 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LGS_Carlo[CMR] Haunted you know your mum can take 5 dicks up her ass

LGS_larco[CPT] Whats UKA stand for? UK Assholes?

[uKA]Haunted Where are you guys from?

LGS_Larco[CPT] America of course

[uKA]Haunted Of course.....<span id='postcolor'>

Ah typical ignorant of them

Just the way they think theres no world beyond their shores

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ 02 May 2003,04:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bush is speaking.<span id='postcolor'>

Money talks.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Acecombat @ 02 May 2003,03:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ah typical ignorant of them  

Just the way they think theres no world beyond their shores <span id='postcolor'>

heh.. speaking of ignorant... when is Saudi Arabia's society going to begin progressing out of the middle ages?

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ 02 May 2003,09:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hit_Sqd_Maximus @ 02 May 2003,04<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bush is speaking.<span id='postcolor'>

Money talks.<span id='postcolor'>

That Rocks!  I hope that site prints some just for noveltie's sake. I want some just for the kitzsch value of it!  Imagine having that 50 years from now when perspectives changed about this war.  It might realy be worth something however history ends up interpreting this action.

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 02 May 2003,09:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Acecombat @ 02 May 2003,03:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ah typical ignorant of them  

Just the way they think theres no world beyond their shores <span id='postcolor'>

heh.. speaking of ignorant... when is Saudi Arabia's society going to begin progressing out of the middle ages?<span id='postcolor'>

Well, we've already started pulling the plug on them just as I had predicted. I had a feeling that post 9-11, the bitter taste left by Saudi participation, and if not outright support for Al-Qaeda, then at least aquiescence would lead to a quieting of U.S.-Saudi relations. Part of the reason I felt we went to war with Iraq, was to establish new oil sources so we could distance ourselves from the Saudis and force them into the modern era. The military withdrawal from Saudi Arabia signifies that this might be exactly whats happening.

[PitViper 0]

Schoeler: I agree with you completely.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 02 May 2003,07:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Alot of the self-described "experts" here and in the media were miles off with their various predictions like being "bogged down in the desert" or a "baghdad as stalingrad" situation.  Two days before Baghdad fell, Denoir was posting Fisk's "Baghdad is impenetrable" article as gospel.  I have yet to hear any professionals who made such statements address how they were so far off with them in an objective manner. I'm waiting in anticipation for old Fisky to address his "impenetrable" bit. <span id='postcolor'>

Indeed most predictions were totally off. Very few expected the Iraqi to be such pushovers. They obviously had the weapons, the number of troops and the tactical situation to properly defend themselves but they lacked the will to fight. Take Baghdad for example. A huge city. Saddam had months to prepare the defences. Modern military doctrine states that urban combat requires a force of 6:1 to be successful. Instead US troops entered heavily outnumbered - something like 1:60 and yet managed to take it with a minimum of force.

So why wasn't Baghdad a Stalingrad?

1) Lack of will to fight for what people saw as Saddam's regime. Apparently the national pride was inconsequential. This I think works very much in the favour of the US now who can shoot anti-US protesters, set up the governement of their choice and the Iraqis won't do shit about it.

2) Military incompetence. Saddam had months to prepare for this war and yet they were very unprepared. They didn't blow the bridges in time. The Saddam International was completely intact, with functioning control towers and runways in good shape. Baghdad was not mined etc etc etc

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As soon as Baghdad fell, the egg was running heavily down these people's faces, so they were grasping desperately for bad news. they latched disproportionately onto the inevitable looting (mountain out of molehill) and the museum bit (which appears to have been done professionally by insiders rather than the mob) in hopes of averting criticism from themselves.<span id='postcolor'>

You still don't seem to get it. The museum was the biggest disaster in the war. It does not matter who did it. The fact is that it happened. And you could destroy every museum in USA and you would not come close to the damage that was done when the Baghdad museum was ransacked.

But hey, the Ministry of Oil building was well protected and survived the looting. That's the important thing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now.. the job of getting Iraq back on its feet after 25 years of dictatorship will not happen overnight and will need strict attention. There are several parties at work who may attempt to monkeywrench post-war Iraq because of the severe implications it will mean to them politically. A failure in stabilizing Iraq will be necessary in order to save political face. These parties may likely include France, Germany, Russia, Syria, Iran and lastly, the minority of Islamists in Iraq (and of the region in general).<span id='postcolor'>

You forget about USA who is in place and activly screwing the Iraqis over. As an Iraqi doctor at the Baghdad hospital put it :"The Americans will help us? Ha! The only help we will be getting will be paid for by our oil. Thank you very much but we can help ourselves"

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 02 May 2003,11:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You forget about USA who is in place and activly screwing the Iraqis over. As an Iraqi doctor at the Baghdad hospital put it :"The Americans will help us? Ha! The only help we will be getting will be paid for by our oil. Thank you very much but we can help ourselves"<span id='postcolor'>

You and the good doctor forgot about the almost 2 million Iraqis who died from war, execution, persecution, torture, hunger and disease while Sadam was building his castles in the sand for the last few decades.

[Guest]

Not at all. Those are two completely separate things. The relative improvement is of course significant. US exploatation of Iraq is of course still much better than Saddam's rule. I don't dispute that, but the Iraqis would be happier if they got to decide their future for themselves now that they are "free".

The concensus in Iraq is (not surprisingly): "Thank you for removing Saddam. Now get lost and leave our country alone.".

The fact that both they and USA did not like Saddam does not mean that they like a US occupation..

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ 02 May 2003,11:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 02 May 2003,11:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You forget about USA who is in place and activly screwing the Iraqis over. As an Iraqi doctor at the Baghdad hospital put it :"The Americans will help us? Ha! The only help we will be getting will be paid for by our oil. Thank you very much but we can help ourselves"<span id='postcolor'>

You and the good doctor forgot about the almost 2 million Iraqis who died from war, execution, persecution, torture, hunger and disease while Sadam was building his castles in the sand for the last few decades.<span id='postcolor'>

Wow, that figure has shot up by 500,000 from the last guesstimate I heard...

[Acecombat 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 02 May 2003,09:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Acecombat @ 02 May 2003,03:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ah typical ignorant of them  

Just the way they think theres no world beyond their shores <span id='postcolor'>

heh.. speaking of ignorant... when is Saudi Arabia's society going to begin progressing out of the middle ages?<span id='postcolor'>

Haha grow up kid as i said there are worlds to explore beyond your shore and your internet connection plus the FOX network

[Acecombat 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ 02 May 2003,11:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 02 May 2003,11:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You forget about USA who is in place and activly screwing the Iraqis over. As an Iraqi doctor at the Baghdad hospital put it :"The Americans will help us? Ha! The only help we will be getting will be paid for by our oil. Thank you very much but we can help ourselves"<span id='postcolor'>

You and the good doctor forgot about the almost 2 million Iraqis who died from war, execution, persecution, torture, hunger and disease while Sadam was building his castles in the sand for the last few decades.<span id='postcolor'>

Two small addons to the guy who guesses who was aiding Saddam and giving him this money to build 'his castles'

Yes sir youve guessed it it is our own US of A who supplied him those same ever famous and still to be found NBC and 'anthrax' and other assorted 'freaky named' wepons that US gave to him to squash Iran

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 02 May 2003,12:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">US exploatation of Iraq<span id='postcolor'>

Besides being a moderator, I see you're still trying your luck at fortune telling.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ 02 May 2003,12:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, that figure has shot up by 500,000 from the last guesstimate I heard... <span id='postcolor'>

You must have great faith in FSPilot's sig.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ 02 May 2003,11:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 02 May 2003,12:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">US exploatation of Iraq<span id='postcolor'>

Besides being a moderator, I see you're still trying your luck at fortune telling.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, I have the magical ability to predict.... *the present*

If it isn't about exploatation:

[*]Why have American companies been exclusivly contracted to rebuild Iraq and to handle the oil extraction?

[*]Why is USA so opposed to a UN administration of Iraq?

They're not trying to hide it - they're saying in public that "we freed Iraq so why should we share the spoils with you?"

If it was all a fair deal with the only purpose of helping the Iraqis why are France et al excluded from any rebuilding investments? If it was all a fair deal, rebuilding a country would cost money, you would not be making money off it.

[Acecombat 0]

Well i heard Dick Cheney has some shares in a company which just struck a multi-million $ deal in Iraq.

No surprises there if America wanted Iraq freed there were many other ways but its so clear that they wanted oil and thats their main objective that whoever doesnt see's it is virtually blind

*cough* protecting the Oil ministry and letting the crowds loot the museum and everything but nothing should happen to their precious oil*

[haunted 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (haunted @ 02 May 2003,04:33)

... when truth is they had so little supplies after Pearl Harbour, the Brits had to send the Americans aircraft, weapons and supplies to stop it crumbling like France and its counterparts did.

Umm...what book did you get that from?

Lend-Lease anyone?? Anyone got my back here?? <span id='postcolor'>

A little thing called THE HISTORY CHANNEL