1.78: Odd changes to commanding vehicular movement

[OMAC 254]

As a vehicle commander, it used to be that a keypress of W or S would make driver move forward/backward until another movement key is pressed.  With 1.78 stable branch, that is no longer true.  W or S keys must be held down by commander for driver to keep moving forward/backward.  When W or S keys are released, driver will stop.   If A or S keys are pressed, commander says, " Left > STOP" or "Right > STOP."   The "STOPs" are odd and appear to be unnecessary, and are not obeyed by driver anyway.

 

Are these changes by design, and/or do they have something to do with the new HoldKey functionality?  I looked around in Controls and couldn't find anything related to HoldKey.  I haven't changed any keybinds lately or otherwise messed around with the control settings.

[Strike_NOR 898]

Hey OMAC. In the changelog you can see they changed the way a player commands the driver on purpose.

 

It's been like this for a while on devbranch now and it makes the tank handle as if you are in the driver's seat yourself. The voice commands are technically only there for sound effects now.

 

I believe part of the reason for this was to improve the single-player experience as a tank-commander for the upcoming tanks DLC. Also, devs have stated it is now possible to have tanks that do not have a driver at all, where the commander or gunner may control the vehicle. This is of course so that you can have a tank where the crew consists of gunner and commander, where the commander or gunner takes on the extra role of driver (think modern tanks with remote auto-loading turret systems).

 

I find the tank a lot easier to control now and the tank gameplay much more enjoyable. Bear in mind, if your tank has 3 crew and the driver's seat is empty (no AI), you can't steer the tank. There must be AI crew in drivers seat in order to control it, just like before.

[OMAC 254]

Ah ha, yes:

 

Quote

 

ENGINE:

Added: Vehicle commanders can now control their vehicles directly by the WASD keys without AI responsibility delays (there should be no difference between driving from driver or commander positions, though AI crew still needs to be present)

 

 

Thanks. Those STOP voice commands seemed odd, but I guess they're meant to convey the commander telling the driver to stop turning the tank.  Makes sense.  You'd think that there would be another "STOP" verbal command when the commander lets up on the W or S keys also.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

As of now it seems the devs are a wee bit confused concerning in which direction to take this game.

On one hand they tweak artillery turret rotation speed to be more authentic, on the other hand they allow players in an arcade-ish way to drive and operate tank turrets at the same time.

I for one preferred the single command for move and stop instead of having to press the keys all the time.

After all I'm using AI for not having to drive myself in the first place.

 

Cheers

[chops 111]

As commander, you don't have to hold the forward button down the entire time, just until a few seconds after the tank starts moving, then the AI driver will continue on.

 

From the limited amount of time I've played with the new changes, I find the new way far more rsponsive and therefore far less frustrating.

 

1 hour ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

...they allow players in an arcade-ish way to drive and operate tank turrets at the same time.

 As far as I know, that's now an option, rather than being mandatory. Probably helps a lot for modders trying to build all kinds of weird and wonderful things. :)

 

That said, a couple of things are bugging me about the new changes.

• There doesn't seem to be a 'forward fast' command any more
• You can't go from normal speed forward, then to slow, you have to come to a complete halt first

 

[silentghoust 132]

Just did some further testing. When they refer to the commander, they refer to the unit who is in charge of that squad(highest rank in the tank). So yes, you can switch to the gunner and control the same manner. Why I have gotten very good at commanding a tank with AI, I feel it was ultimately a necessary thing. The delay between commands, particularly when he is blabbing away on reports could make you miss your stop mark by 500m+. I assume or at least hope that BI will allow us to go to legacy or disable it based on mission. 

[da12thMonkey 1943]

2 hours ago, chops said:

That said, a couple of things are bugging me about the new changes.

• There doesn't seem to be a 'forward fast' command any more
• You can't go from normal speed forward, then to slow, you have to come to a complete halt first

I added the additional inverted ctrl/shift+w keypress order to the keybinds, and it seemed to get those to work

[OMAC 254]

I agree with @Grumpy Old Man on this.  Having to hold W/S down as commander to move is a setback.  One command should do the job like it did before.  If you let up on those keys, vehicle will come to a stop every time (as is normal for human driver), without the verbal stop command present for A/D keys.  Even handbrake works for commander - this doesn't make sense to me, unless handbrake is accompanied by a verbal "STOP" command.  This major change needs tweaking for sure, and should be made optional.  

 

My Fast Drive key (E) works for commander as it does for driver - no change there that I can see.

 

There should be a penalty regarding fluidity and responsiveness of movement if you are commander.  This penalty was reasonably handled before.  The commander has many things to do other than drive the vehicle, and he/she should concentrate on those.  For example, commander needs to press another key to laze targets for his MG or GMG, and having to hold down W/S keys for movement makes lazing more difficult.

 

Seems clear to me that the change was made to mitigate issues with AI driving, especially in tanks.  Like AI drivers "refusing" to back up when ordered if obstacles are nearby... 

[kremator 1065]

Unfortunately as the AI are complete morons when it comes to driving I'm glad that they have put this feature in.  I can still issue an order and watch in horror as the AI drives into a 'insert any object here' and refuses to reverse.  Now at least I can take over and get the moron our of trouble.

On 01/12/2017 at 3:09 PM, OMAC said:

Seems clear to me that the change was made to mitigate issues with AI driving, especially in tanks.  Like AI drivers "refusing" to back up when ordered if obstacles are nearby... 

Yup.

[Beagle 684]

You dont have to hold a button,you can assign an axis. I can use rudder pedals for driving and steering and use the mouse for aiming. This isa real help since the old AI driver system was no help at all, it made thigs worse.

The funny thing is... now I can finally control a tank in the way I used to do it in DID "Wargasm"...btw. the old way of switchign driver, gunner commander position all the time was not better in terms of "authenticity".

 

I still think a lot of "player problems" in ArmA III are not about AI or routines or Physics, but root in nt enough setup options for controls, especially the separation of tracked, Wheeled and Boat types. You may have one setup (HOTAS) thats works good for Vehicles, but does not work at all for tracked, and is bad for Helicopters and vice versa. A complete separation for control of those classes that don't conflict each other would help a lot more then tinkring with Physics.

[[EC] Slawek 11]

On 1.12.2017 at 12:33 AM, OMAC said:

W or S keys must be held down by commander for driver to keep moving forward/backward.  When W or S keys are released, driver will stop.

Press 2xW or 2xS for the driver to drive alone.

 

For 16 years I was driving vehicles with a mouse. With the new settings I had to turn off the mouse from driving.
Is not it going backwards? Does anyone remember T80 AI in OFP?
Question: with free look around on the commander's or gunner's slot the tank moves sideways?

[Beagle 684]

1 hour ago, [EC] Slawek said:

Question: with free look around on the commander's or gunner's slot the tank moves sideways?

all movement is relative to the hull front direction...everything else woudl be really disorienting. For longer leaps over terrain is is anyhow better to use the map and give a position for the driver there.

[FoxFort 341]

This system is now much better compared to previous ones, since AI is a bad driver. But voice commands are now annyoing AF and clogging the radio chatter so I can't give orders when I drive from commander/gunner seat.

[oukej 2911]

On 12/4/2017 at 1:38 AM, [EC] Slawek said:

Does anyone remember T80 AI in OFP?

;)

[lex__1 422]

On 04.12.2017 at 2:38 AM, [EC] Slawek said:

Press 2xW or 2xS for the driver to drive alone.

 

For 16 years I was driving vehicles with a mouse. With the new settings I had to turn off the mouse from driving.
Is not it going backwards? Does anyone remember T80 AI in OFP?
Question: with free look around on the commander's or gunner's slot the tank moves sideways?

Since OFP, I liked using the "free review" key. Now for me this also works well, I did not disconnect the mouse from the control.

In the new control system, the AI driver, I do not like the work of the keys "A and D". The operation of these commands stops the active command "fast forward".