Tank drivers interior

[en3x 209]

Tank driver vision relies on periscopes. Periscope is instrument that allows viewing over or around the obstacle
or any condition that prevents direct line of sight. The driver and the TC (tank commander) have both this option.
Important thing to know is that TC will always have better situational observation then driver. Mostly because
of his position in a tank - center turret position allows 360 turret periscope. While driver is based on the
front side of the tank and has front side arc of view.

 

I would classify 2 possible categories

2D and 3D implementation

 

2D

Current implementation of a driver in First person has view with 2D overlay (black borders) that simulates viewport or periscope.

 

 

Using this tehnique it offers few possiblities:

 

2D wider FOV

+More viewing area
+Closer to real world angle of view

-Fixed view (I'm tank syndrome as oppose to person in a tank)
-Look alike between all tanks (no visual distinction)
-too wide FOV produces fish eye effect
-wider FOV produces FOV inconsistency between vehicles

 

2D wider FOV with 3 periscopes 2d overlay

+More viewing area
+Closer to real world angle of view

-Fixed view (I'm tank syndrome as oppose to person in a tank)
-Look alike between all tanks (no visual distinction)

-too wide FOV produces fish eye effect
-wider FOV produces FOV inconsistency between vehicles

 

2D switching views

+More angles

+Simulating 3 periscopes lines of vision

-Fixed view
-Time consuming to switch between
-Look alike between all tanks (no visual distinction)

 

3D

 

(Arma 1 OFP Tank M60 patton)
+Person in a tank immersion (Freedome of head movement)
+Consistency with other vehicles with modeled interiors
+Immersion (interiors differ from tank to tank)

-Work/time/

 

 

On the personal note I think current viewports are too small, too zoomed and not fun to operate. This produces side effects like driving in 3d person,

turning out (when possible and in 1st person). It also leads to believe that modeling interiors is not worth it. In my opinion it brings character of tanks,

gives freedom of head movement and adds immersion like other modeled vehicle driver position have.

 

Different variation of 2d overlay techniques all suffer from the same problems. (all look alike and fixed view). Which brings me to believe that 3D interior

driver position seem like the best option for a DLC dedicated to tanks.

 

Is it doable? Since slammer have modeled interior for passengers I believe that its technically possible. Especially with 3 new tanks that aren't yet in a

pipeline, or are in productions right now (guesstimating). Current tanks may have technical difficulties but given enough time can be solved.

If that option is not possible I would argue that quality over quantity still prevails and enable new DLC vehicle interior driving position, while vannila

one not - or they do but receive one at the later date.

[sammael 366]

If it was happen -only in 2018 with tank DLC

[EDcase 87]

We live in hope....

[andersson 285]

I have not driven tanks since 2006. Can't stand being glued to a view port.

[x3kj 1247]

why didnt you post this in tanks dlc thread?

 

There is option B for 3d interiors - model only the viewports and keep the rest black or very blurred. Gives the gameplaybenefits of 3d interiors without requiring ridiculous amounts of model work. Plus generic interior cupolas could be reused by mods

 

suggestion and proof of concept i posted here

On 21.10.2016 at 8:21 PM, x3kj said:

3D Periscopes on all stations. Modelling the entire Interior of a Tank is extremely time consuming and the small benefit to gameplay vs. the work is prohibitive. Modelling just the Viewports/Periscopes will have the same effect: provide more situational awareness and also immersion, while beeing very easy to do. It was done somewhat comparably for M113 driver and Bradley driver in A2. The idea behind this can be applied to commander and gunner too and can be demonstrated with these concept images: one two. I demonstrated the implementation in one of my WIP videos @2:32 (Commander of a Battletank)  and @6:31 to 7:55 (different tank). These are fantasy vehicles, their periscope designs are pretty terrible (narrow). However, thats still better than current "always glued to the optic" implementation of vanilla A3. There are issues that prevent this method from beeing implemented properly. The Commander View LOD is not functional, so if the Vehicle has Gunner, Driver, Commander and Passengers, not all can be modelled this way. Also, the Shadow LOD for Gunner View, Driver View, Cargo View, Commander View do not appear to be working. I tried everything, but the main default shadow LOD was always used.

 

 

 

 

[en3x 209]

Tank dlc thread was moved in arma 3 general which didn't see appropriate. I consulted to moderator before posting this thread.

[x3kj 1247]

fair enough

[froggyluv 2136]

 

 I dont know - this whole new DLC regiment being given a few models (yes and tons of awesome features) -I expect those few models to be fully fleshed out as that is the definition of Premium content. If they were giving us 20 new units and didnt do interiors i could understand (I guess), but if judging by jets -we're getting just a few -they should be fully modeled inside and out.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I don't play tanks since BI decided to take their interiors away. Too boring.

[x3kj 1247]

i know how much work it is to make a full tank interior, because i made some. You could model 1-2 new tanks for every interior you do. So it's very unrealistic to expect fully modelled interior for tanks plus addition of vanilla interiors to match.

[en3x 209]

Estimate is 3 new tanks correct? Each of faction.

[x3kj 1247]

thats propably the assumption of many of us. But BIS havent said anything about numbers of tanks or anything.

If you have 3 tanks + interiors. Plus retrofitting of Interiors for vanilla tanks and APC, somewhere around the 10-12 mark. In the amount of time you need for those interiors you could model 15 new vehicles instead ...

 

So what are the chances of getting 3+15=18 new vehicles in a DLC.? Extremely unlikey. Therefore you can definitely count on Tank DLC not getting 3 tanks  + complete interiors for all existing tanks.

[twistking 204]

1 hour ago, x3kj said:

i know how much work it is to make a full tank interior, because i made some. You could model 1-2 new tanks for every interior you do. So it's very unrealistic to expect fully modelled interior for tanks plus addition of vanilla interiors to match.

 

Please stop with the argument, that it would be too much work to model interiors. BIS is not a small indi dev anymore and ARMA is not a niche game like it was 15 years ago.

Tank interiors would be possible, if BIS decided, that it is a vital feature. Sure, maybe it would mean more model/texture work than jets dlc, while selling at the same price, but it is easy to see that work/profit calculations on a big franchise like ARMA is more complex than "prize = workhour*x"

 

Also it should be obvious, that in a big company the content creation pipeline is quite different from a modder, who works by himself. x3kj, i am sure, you are aware of that.

Often it is less about pure hours of work, but which rescources (artists of different kinds, programmers etc.) are available for a project. The jets from jets dlc were produced externaly for reasons.

 

However, more importantly, we should not even discuss that!!!

I think it is reasonable to demand modeled interiors for tanks in a 2017 "kind-of-triple-A" title, that  is built upon immersive realism.

[x3kj 1247]

1 minute ago, twistking said:

Often it is less about pure hours of work, but which rescources (artists of different kinds, programmers etc.) are available for a project. The jets from jets dlc were produced externaly for reasons.

hours of work directly translates to the manpower ressource available for the project.

 

4 minutes ago, twistking said:

I think it is reasonable to demand modeled interiors for tanks in a 2017 "kind-of-triple-A" title, that  is built upon immersive realism.

Priorities. Changes that enhance gameplay and variety significantly and require little work from art deparment will always be favored over big tasks that only enhance a very small aspect.

Demand all you want, that doesnt make it more realistic of a wish.

 

Youd be surprised how little difference there is between modding and game developing...  time = money.

[heavygunner 179]

You have to take into consideration that the team of BIS working on Arma is still smaller than it was before. It's also reasonable to throw the idea of interiors away, since they may not give as much gameplay value as other features would. I don't think there is that much to discuss, as BIS is aware of all possibilities and how much they are wanted thus they'll decide on that independently if they do them. 

[x3kj 1247]

4 minutes ago, heavygunner said:

You have to take into consideration that the team of BIS working on Arma is still smaller than it was before.

Exactly. Part of BIS's Arma team will already have to work on the successor or whatever game is next in the pipeline. They can't all develop DLC and addons for 3 years and only then start working on a new one, since it takes around 4 years on its own. Especially now when they have a new engine they have to make functional.

[ProfTournesol 956]

The gameplay argument is weak compared to the immersion one imho, but as women ran away with the furniture, they may have taken the tank interiors off too.

[twistking 204]

14 hours ago, x3kj said:

hours of work directly translates to the manpower ressource available for the project.

 

not, if other projects are in state of development, where certain rescources become available and an be used in side projects / dlc instead of idling aroudn with low workload.

i'm not saying that this is the case here, just wanted to clarify my point.

[joostsidy 685]

On 2-6-2017 at 10:28 PM, froggyluv said:

 

I expect those few models to be fully fleshed out as that is the definition of Premium content.

BI decided a long time ago that a completely finished tank in the game does not have an interior. Even though it made me cry :-)

 

The new tanks will most probably not have interiors. Judging on the other dlc's, it's out of scope for the resouces they made available for this (smaller team, like others have said).

 

All DLCs add a few vehicles similar to what's already in the game plus some smaller objects and free functionality upgrades. BI full tank interiors would be a revolutionary development not seen since OFP times. That's just wishful thinking for a DLC.

 

Isn't there even a technical objection nowadays, in that interiors can't have their own lighting? If you sit in the back of an IFV, you're sitting in the dark, if it's dark outside. The OFP tanks had their own ambient light level for the interiors, I think they scrapped it in the newer engine for performance.

 

One of the 'newer' things that will probably be in this DLC is a big UGV tank.

 

So just like the helo and the jets DLC I predict:

- about 4 vehicles that are variations on what we already have

- some smaller ambient objects

- some new functionality

 

I love full tank interiors, I loved playing with them in OFP, really feeling like you are in the tank. You could even look inside from outside through the open hatches! They felt so real. But I have accepted that they are not part of the official Arma3 experience. I would love to be proven wrong :-)

 

[x3kj 1247]

Quote

Isn't there even a technical objection nowadays, in that interiors can't have their own lighting? If you sit in the back of an IFV, you're sitting in the dark, if it's dark outside. The OFP tanks had their own ambient light level for the interiors, I think they scrapped it in the newer engine for performance.

You can add cargo light in A3, but it shines through the vehicle. Looks very stupid. And since you can potentially open hatches or even have viewports in cargo LOD, you can't just use a totally different "environment light".  Adding lights to interior will only work when light-occlusion feature is added, like dayz got it.

 

[joostsidy 685]

8 minutes ago, x3kj said:

You can add cargo light in A3, but it shines through the vehicle. Looks very stupid. And since you can potentially open hatches or even have viewports in cargo LOD, you can't just use a totally different "environment light".  Adding lights to interior will only work when light-occlusion feature is added, like dayz got it.

 

Thanks for the explanation, I have read about it, but forgot the details. Do you know how OFP did it? Like I said you could look into a tank through an open hatch. The interior had its own lighting and looked ok even if looking at it from outside.

[teabagginpeople 398]

26 minutes ago, joostsidy said:

BI decided a long time ago that a completely finished tank in the game does not have an interior. Even though it made me cry :-)

 

The new tanks will most probably not have interiors. Judging on the other dlc's, it's out of scope for the resouces they made available for this (smaller team, like others have said).

 

All DLCs add a few vehicles similar to what's already in the game plus some smaller objects and free functionality upgrades. BI full tank interiors would be a revolutionary development not seen since OFP times. That's just wishful thinking for a DLC.

 

Isn't there even a technical objection nowadays, in that interiors can't have their own lighting? If you sit in the back of an IFV, you're sitting in the dark, if it's dark outside. The OFP tanks had their own ambient light level for the interiors, I think they scrapped it in the newer engine for performance.

 

One of the 'newer' things that will probably be in this DLC is a big UGV tank.

 

So just like the helo and the jets DLC I predict:

- about 4 vehicles that are variations on what we already have

- some smaller ambient objects

- some new functionality

 

I love full tank interiors, I loved playing with them in OFP, really feeling like you are in the tank. You could even look inside from outside through the open hatches! They felt so real. But I have accepted that they are not part of the official Arma3 experience. I would love to be proven wrong :-)

 

 

I honestly believe you will be proven wrong.

 

I'm well aware they are different projects. It's just how I see it going down. 

 

[froggyluv 2136]

On 6/2/2017 at 6:18 PM, ProfTournesol said:

The gameplay argument is weak compared to the immersion one imho, but as women ran away with the furniture, they may have taken the tank interiors off too.

 

Arma 4 confirmed.

 

 

Edit: @Teabags video -for somethings thats a 'waste of time', BISim sure seems to think different ;) that looks hella fun to operate.

 

 I remember when BISim claimed High Fidelity Graphics were another 'waste of time' and could actually hinder a soldiers training. That didnt last..

 

[dragon01 902]

6 hours ago, joostsidy said:

So just like the helo and the jets DLC I predict:

- about 4 vehicles that are variations on what we already have

- some smaller ambient objects

- some new functionality

Don't forget the friggin' aircraft carrier. Even if it was worked on before and doesn't have much in terms of interiors itself, it's easily just as much work as modeling internal spaces for DLC vehicles.

 

I think that at least DLC tanks will get interiors. Vanilla ones won't, except in the unlikely event that a DLC tank ends up being a variant of a design already featured in vanilla (e.g. the Merkava), thus enabling them to share internal models.

[joostsidy 685]

33 minutes ago, dragon01 said:

friggin' aircraft carrier.

Even though the amount of work might be comparable, interiors don't have the hype of the carrier. At the introduction of Arma3, I was surprised how little people cared on the forums and tracker about interiors or even being against it. The main arguments were: doesn't have functional value, performance cost and BI resources could be better spent elsewhere (even on more tanks, but without interiors). Since then I believe that only a small minority cares about interiors.

 

Wouldn't it be strange to only have the new tanks have interiors? BI usually tries to keep some consistency to the game, making the vanilla assets a little more 'conservative' but more consistent in quality compared to mods. For instance they cancelled working vehicle doors because they couldn't get it working on all vehicles.

 

Of course I dream about interiors. One nice immersive step forward was adding FFV to tanks, that you can pop out the hatch and use your binoculars for instance. That's a step that makes you feel like a real crew member in a tank. Adding interiors would complete this feeling!