Tanks - Fire-control system

[The Man Without Qualities 110]

Am I wrong when I say that there are many FCS with different methods available in RL? Some required a manual trigger for lasing and updating the FCS fire solution, others have a mode with constant/cyclic automatic update of the fire solution (its rather real tracking). But in A3 we have just one single FCS with 1 mode? for all weapons?

[scavenjer 112]

20 minutes ago, The Man Without Qualities said:

Am I wrong when I say that there are many FCS with different methods available in RL? Some required a manual trigger for lasing and updating the FCS fire solution, others have a mode with constant/cyclic automatic update of the fire solution (its rather real tracking). But in A3 we have just one single FCS with 1 mode? for all weapons?

For tanks we have 1 most commonly used mode, which is lasing a target to get it's current velocity and distance.

 

There's other FCS in game that we use, CCIP and such.

[Wiki 1558]

On 15/04/2018 at 8:38 PM, 1911shields said:

I'm having some trouble with the controls. I have binded "Y" to lase target and "LSHIFT+T" to lock target.

However, when i lase the target to get the distance by pressing "Y", it automatically calculates the movement of the target and causes me to miss my shot.

AFAIK LSHIFT+T aka "Lock Target" function is supposed to do that. As i would much more prefer to just lase the target to get its distance and lead the shot myself.

Is there something i'm doing wrong here??

 

That's what I said, but some people seem to think that we're just moron saying that...

 

On 16/04/2018 at 8:28 AM, Beagle said:

What some players seem to miss is that you have to use "Lase" just right before fire to get the best fire solution. The slightes change of speed or direction of the target will make the FCS miss otherwise. More so if youre moving yourself. Thats a nice touch to reflect the real life issues and inaccuracies that happen when comparing stationary vs. moving gunnery. The farther away the less is the hit probability.

Problem is, with FCS, that we have to spam the Laser key to have a good shot at the target.

 

For example:

 

I stay still.

I lase a moving target.

Right after, the target stops.

We both are still.

If I don't refresh the FCS, even with the visor right in the middle of the target, the shot will miss because the FCS will still consider the target as moving - and overshoot.

 

[Variable 322]

I stay still.
I lase a moving target.
Right after, the target stops.
We both are still.
If I don't refresh the FCS, even with the visor right in the middle of the target, the shot will miss because the FCS will still consider the target as moving - and overshoot.

That’s how it suppose to work, same as in a real life FCS. How else did you expect it to work?

[Wiki 1558]

Just now, Variable said:

That’s how it suppose to work, same as in a real life FCS. How else did you expect it to work?

2 differents functions:

1 to lase and have the range to target

1 to engage the FCS

 

in the hint, it's how they say it should work

"lase" then use the "lock" function to engage FCS.

But in game, both lasing and FCS are mixed up.

[scavenjer 112]

3 hours ago, Wiki said:

2 differents functions:

1 to lase and have the range to target

1 to engage the FCS

 

in the hint, it's how they say it should work

"lase" then use the "lock" function to engage FCS.

But in game, both lasing and FCS are mixed up.

They're for different systems actually, all you have to do to properly lase a target without engaging FCS is lasing an object or  the ground near them.

Maybe not as in-depth as something yo'ud see in Steel beasts, but more than complicated enough for arma 3.

[Alwarren 2767]

On 27.4.2018 at 5:48 PM, Wiki said:

But in game, both lasing and FCS are mixed up.

 

Real-life FCS work exactly like the one in game, however, there is one crucial function missing IMO, and that is "dump lead". Normal FCS has a button that, when pressed, drops the lead calculation from the targeting solution (sometimes it also resets zeroing, for example on the Leopard 2 is drops lead and zeros to 1200)

[Wiki 1558]

2 hours ago, Alwarren said:

 

Real-life FCS work exactly like the one in game, however, there is one crucial function missing IMO, and that is "dump lead". Normal FCS has a button that, when pressed, drops the lead calculation from the targeting solution (sometimes it also resets zeroing, for example on the Leopard 2 is drops lead and zeros to 1200)

Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

[oukej 2910]

If you adjust zeroing (PgUp/PgDown) you also dump the lead. The only loss is max. 50m imprecision in the zeroing range, but that has been considered an acceptable casualty for saving the controls from one new separate action :)

[Alwarren 2767]

7 minutes ago, oukej said:

... acceptable ...

 

I respectfully disagree. Especially if time is of the essence, dumping lead and having to compensate may be too much time. An extra key would not really be an issue IMO, since you either a) don't need it (which leaves you at the current solution) or b) bind it because you aren't overwhelmed by an extra key.

[oukej 2910]

Generally we've tried to avoid adding any extra action to controls if it could've been avoided. Maybe we weren't always 100% consistent in that, but we tried. Many players were - understandably - getting scared by just opening the controls options :) Ofc, there would be options how to solve that on the menu UX side itself (from search, to hiding of "advanced" actions...), in some form of contextual availability, etc... But here I'm already taking this outside of what was possible in Arma in the given time.
The need for separate actions is perfectly understandable, especially with various controllers. Nevertheless, I'm sorry, no further development is planned for the feature.

[jukk 4]

Wouldn't it be possible to do it like it is but instead when pressing pgdn/pgup you still keep the zeroing (and only dump the lead) until you press the keys again?

[Alwarren 2767]

12 hours ago, jukk said:

Wouldn't it be possible to do it like it is but instead when pressing pgdn/pgup you still keep the zeroing (and only dump the lead) until you press the keys again?

 

No, bad idea. That makes the zeroing up/down behave context-dependent, and there is no good indication it will. An extra button would have been the only "good" solution.

[teabagginpeople 398]

On 28/04/2018 at 10:10 PM, Alwarren said:

 

I respectfully disagree. Especially if time is of the essence, dumping lead and having to compensate may be too much time. An extra key would not really be an issue IMO, since you either a) don't need it (which leaves you at the current solution) or b) bind it because you aren't overwhelmed by an extra key.

This seems pretty reasonable in fairness. 

 

As for being overwhelmed by keys. Welcome to arma3. I try select squad member number 12 and I get a screen shot in steam :D.

 

[jukk 4]

3 hours ago, Alwarren said:

 

No, bad idea. That makes the zeroing up/down behave context-dependent, and there is no good indication it will. An extra button would have been the only "good" solution.

Is there something inherently wrong with context dependence? The indication is the visual you cue you see on the screen when a solution is ready, which will disappear when you use pgdn/pgup.

[scavenjer 112]

The way it's currently done is actually quite good and easy, if you've bound zero up and down to something like ctrl+mwheel up/down it's very fast and simple.

[Alwarren 2767]

6 hours ago, jukk said:

Is there something inherently wrong with context dependence? The indication is the visual you cue you see on the screen when a solution is ready, which will disappear when you use pgdn/pgup.

 

The zeroing keys are for zeroing. They do not relate at all to the lead. Having them dump lead and then zero doesn't make sense (all IMO) since they aren't meant this way, and frankly, I don't see how this is any better than a single extra key that not everybody will even need.

 

If we're talking key overload, just look at how many targetting keys we already have, and I am quite sure that a lot of these are also not mapped for people.

[Alwarren 2767]

2 hours ago, scavenjer said:

The way it's currently done is actually quite good and easy, if you've bound zero up and down to something like ctrl+mwheel up/down it's very fast and simple.

 

And if you don't, it might be an issue. The zero keys are for adjusting zeroing. Really, I do not see how a single extra key out of (goes off to count) a whopping 317 controls would have been an issue.

 

Just look at this

keyVoiceOverNet[]={};
keyPushToTalk[]={};
keyPushToTalkAll[]={};
keyPushToTalkSide[]={};
keyPushToTalkCommand[]={};
keyPushToTalkGroup[]={};
keyPushToTalkVehicle[]={};
keyPushToTalkDirect[]={};

8 keys just for talking... how a single "Dump Lead" key would scare away/overload an Arma player is beyond me, seriously.

[jukk 4]

I personally don't see adding a key for it as difficult to use but it's probably easier to implement the functionality I suggested. I mean, like oukej said, it's kind of already there: if you have a solution from the FCS, using ranging buttons drops the lead and rounds to the nearest range from the solution (within 50 m).

[SzepyCZ 24]

17 hours ago, Alwarren said:

 

And if you don't, it might be an issue. The zero keys are for adjusting zeroing. Really, I do not see how a single extra key out of (goes off to count) a whopping 317 controls would have been an issue.

 

Just look at this

8 keys just for talking... how a single "Dump Lead" key would scare away/overload an Arma player is beyond me, seriously.

RHS FCS actually have a key for dumping the lead