Why arma 3 is less realistic than other games on some points ?

[plutoto74 2]

Hi, am a fan since OFPF and I wondering why arma 3 for a milsim or a game which simulate military stuff is less realistic on some points than other games.

 

For exemple I take Insurgency, it's not an open world like Arma 3 but it's enough realistic on many points.

 

3D scopes : a big problem in Arma 3 since the beginning of this, there's no realistic zoom, I know the limitation of the engine caused with the big open world but it's a big deal like in Insurgency to match more the reality, other games do better than Arma and it's a good way to follow.

 

Grenades : in Arma 3 just press G and a you throw a grenade magically very quickly without take off the pin, in Insurgency like some games you've got the animation with a realistic delay to take off the pin and throw the grenade.

 

There's other points to check with other games but for a realistic game like Arma 3 for the use of weapons it's not enough good.

[Wiki 1558]

The most annoying thing IMO is the damage system.

It doesn't feel as realistic as it was in ArmA 2 for example... I regret that

[plutoto74 2]

I know that, and limtation with a realistic visual damage (gore) but it's another complicated subject.

[war_lord 934]

Hi, am a fan since OFPF and I wondering why arma 3 for a milsim or a game which simulate military stuff is less realistic on some points than other games.

 

For exemple I take Insurgency, it's not an open world like Arma 3 but it's enough realistic on many points.

 

3D scopes : a big problem in Arma 3 since the beginning of this, there's no realistic zoom, I know the limitation of the engine caused with the big open world but it's a big deal like in Insurgency to match more the reality, other games do better than Arma and it's a good way to follow.

 

Grenades : in Arma 3 just press G and a you throw a grenade magically very quickly without take off the pin, in Insurgency like some games you've got the animation with a realistic delay to take off the pin and throw the grenade.

 

There's other points to check with other games but for a realistic game like Arma 3 for the use of weapons it's not enough good.

The only way to do "realistic" (if you've ever looked through a scope in real life, you'll quickly realize that games can't really ever replicate the feeling properly) right now is with PiP. The problem with that is that PiP is a huge resource hog on any PC, particularly at the definition needed to us it for anything precise. That's fine for 16 vs 16 players on a small map in the source engine, not really viable for Arma, which is on a much larger scale.

As for the grenade thing, grenades in the older games had an elaborate wind up and throw animation, consequently they sucked and no one used them outside of roleplaying.   

[subs17 9]

I know that, and limtation with a realistic visual damage (gore) but it's another complicated subject.

 

Gore is not a problem as you can have different settings and have more gore for those that want it.

 

The problem with realism is the lack of actual weapons that exist IRL and this is where BIs Arma has become unrealistic. You compare it to the earlier versions Arma1/Arma2 and OFP had modern day weapons that actually exist so those sims are regarded as more realistic. Maybe BI should do an addon for A3 which brings that sort of content back to arma3 so then people would say what is the most realistic FPS Arma3. So the OFP/Arma1/Arma2 approach with basic training had that sort of approach with the big plus mods like ACE. The marksman DLC should be extremely realistic but do any of those weaposn exist IRL? So how can it be regarded as realistic when such a weapon does not exist the addon has some cool stuff like to be able to lean on a vehicle for stability but how about the ballistics of the weapon being modeled how can you model it realistically is it based off another weapon that exists IRL? How about weight of the weapon and that effect on the players stamina? So there is areas here that could improve Arma3 and get back on that pedestal.

[lexx 1363]

I want to throw a duckling into a puddle of water every time I read someone write that ArmA3 is less realistic because it doesn't use the same weapons as any other shooter game on the market.

[roshnak 41]

The marksman DLC should be extremely realistic but do any of those weaposn exist IRL?

 

Yeah, a bunch of them do.

[ivan keska 45]

Only thing that gets me is the damage system in arma, which is 100% garbage. Where if you have no armor you die way to easily, which is not how it works in real life. People very rarely die to single bullet hits and often only go down after multiple hits, even with 7.62. Also how you can shot a guy in the foot and he dies, which is just retarded. Many people have had land mines blow off chunks of their feet to almost their entire legs and very often survive. Most shots to limbs are flesh wounds even with large caliber bullets, because either there is to little flesh to stop the bullet thus have damage occur or damage that occur at best just disables your arm or leg.

Plus we have extremely poorly done body armor, which does not match realistic performance in any way. After all lvl 4 body armor in real life is designed to stop armor piercing 7.62 and quite a few hits, well in game 7.62 can drop a guy with lvl 4 armor with ease.

 

Now granted this stuff isn't easy to do, because it's a lot of programming and research you have to do and for what is well really a small detail. So I do understand why it's not in game, though would like it in game.

 

But something they could and should add is a better ballistics system. After all ACE and other mods before it have shown it's a system that can be improved and be done very well. Plus it does enhance gameplay by making long range shooting more skill based and requiring more time need to set up and range your shots.

[subs17 9]

I want to throw a duckling into a puddle of water every time I read someone write that ArmA3 is less realistic because it doesn't use the same weapons as any other shooter game on the market.

 

With the older Arma versions the ballistics could be modeled accurately based off real weapons and sights and later mods such as ACE allowed more realistic application of real world computations for accurate weapons use. For example the bullets trajectory with factors such as wind, tgt movement, beaten zone, rotation of the Earth could be modeled pretty close to the real thing. So modeling of weapons that don't exist IRL sort of moves away from Arma being considered the most realistic FPS, so its not that other games have different weapons its the modeling of weapons that exist IRL that are not fictional that would be a nice addon for A3 or future versions of Arma. For ACE2 there was the Kestrel and also range tables etc for certain weapons I recall and that's where the content of the sim becomes a lot better and the realism is the best thing about Arma.

[subs17 9]

Yeah, a bunch of them do.

 

Regarding the Marksman DLC it mentioned 7 sniper weapons but none of them show up anywhere except on wiki as an A3 weapon.

[roshnak 41]

Regarding the Marksman DLC it mentioned 7 sniper weapons but none of them show up anywhere except on wiki as an A3 weapon.

 

The Mk14 is an M14, the Navid is an HK121, the SPMG is a General Dynamics LWMMG, the Mk1 EMR is a Sig 556 DMR chambered in 7.62 NATO.

 

With the older Arma versions the ballistics could be modeled accurately based off real weapons and sights and later mods such as ACE allowed more realistic application of real world computations for accurate weapons use. For example the bullets trajectory with factors such as wind, tgt movement, beaten zone, rotation of the Earth could be modeled pretty close to the real thing. So modeling of weapons that don't exist IRL sort of moves away from Arma being considered the most realistic FPS, so its not that other games have different weapons its the modeling of weapons that exist IRL that are not fictional that would be a nice addon for A3 or future versions of Arma. For ACE2 there was the Kestrel and also range tables etc for certain weapons I recall and that's where the content of the sim becomes a lot better and the realism is the best thing about Arma.

 

First of all, I am almost positive that previous versions of ACE did not factor the rotation of the earth into ballistics calculations. Everything else is still in Arma 3 and ACE 3. 

[dmarkwick 261]

It's perfectly normal for some games to model some gameplay/features better/different than others. One game cannot possibly be everyone's answer.

 

I might answer with why don't other games do what ArmA does well. But that would compel me to making a list, but that would be huge and that I just don't have the time :)

 

But in the first instance I might direct you to the video in my signature.

[war_lord 934]

The only actually fictional small arm in standard Arma III is the MX rifles. You can't put exact copies of commercial or military firearms in games without the rights anymore. 

[foffy 58]

I imagine compromises are made because of the scope of the game. Because it's trying to cover all aspects of military combat while still being a consumer product, it will obviously have omissions.

 

The plus side is if anybody seems to have desires dealing with omissions regarding the game, one can try to mod them in. This is how we've gotten AI enhancement mods, sound enhancement mods, damage system mods, etc.

[subs17 9]

The Mk14 is an M14, the Navid is an HK121, the SPMG is a General Dynamics LWMMG, the Mk1 EMR is a Sig 556 DMR chambered in 7.62 NATO.

 

 

First of all, I am almost positive that previous versions of ACE did not factor the rotation of the earth into ballistics calculations. Everything else is still in Arma 3 and ACE 3. 

 

 

Thanks I had no idea they approached it like that its a pity that the devs have to approach it like that because of companies and their lawyers a similar situation has happened with DCS although some devs have got permission from companies to make the aircraft as realistic as possible. I wonder if someone could mod the A3 to add a 2nd list of weapons with those same weapons and kit with their RL weaposn names?

[subs17 9]

It's perfectly normal for some games to model some gameplay/features better/different than others. One game cannot possibly be everyone's answer.

 

I might answer with why don't other games do what ArmA does well. But that would compel me to making a list, but that would be huge and that I just don't have the time :)

 

But in the first instance I might direct you to the video in my signature.

If you look at previous versions of Arma in comparison the devs have added features over time and the sim has evolved so new ideas/wish lists are not a bad idea as the devs can add features to the sim and that's the good thing about Arma. One thing that has always been a feature though is Arma being the most realistic FPS along with VBS.

[Root-Access 2]

I haven't found Insurgency to be "realistic" for a very long time. It has gone down the drain very quickly, sadly.

 

I don't see how the lack of a minor animation makes ArmA 3 less realistic, either.

[germanske_norge 43]

The grenade throwing in Arma 3 isn't realistic at all, it's a lot more intuitive and useable than Arma 2, but it's just a random chuck that both magically pulls the pin off the grenade, and chucks said grenade at a velocity and distance that would make Nolan Ryan blush, not to mention you can spam grenades at a ridiculous rate. 

 

The damage system isn't realistic, people shouldn't be able to take 5-6 5.56 rounds to the chest and still be able to survive and return fire just because they're wearing body armor. 

 

The rag doll system isn't realistic, after watching hundreds of hours of syrian footage and dozens of deaths displayed clearly on camera due to both small arms fire and some larger caliber vehicle mounted weapons, I can make the determination that the way people die in Arma 3 is NOTHING like they do in real life, the rag doll system is downright horrible, still it's better than the crap 2 death animations we had for Arma 2.

 

The flinching system isn't realistic, looking at people get hit in Arma and bounce their limbs around like it's Garry's Mod is just ridiculous. 

 

The vehicle damage system isn't realistic, it's incredibly oversimplified and doesn't take into account ammo storage positions, angle of attack, etc. 

 

And many more things that I honestly don't feel like listing because it's 2:30 in the morning. 

 

I generally don't view Arma, especially 3, as a simulator anymore. But more of a sandbox military shooter that has some very realistic/tactical elements. 

[lexx 1363]

 But more of a sandbox military shooter that has some very realistic/tactical elements. 

 

Isn't this exactly how BIS advertises the game?

 

PS: Going by your points above, no arma game was realistic yet. In fact, out of the top of my head, I know no game that would fit all these criteria.

[Wiki 1558]

Isn't this exactly how BIS advertises the game?

 

PS: Going by your points above, no arma game was realistic yet. In fact, out of the top of my head, I know no game that would fit all these criteria.

Yes, but the damage system on A2 was much better than it is on A3

[subs17 9]

Yes, but the damage system on A2 was much better than it is on A3

 

Arma1 ACE was the best balance of the two for damage modeling as you could still be healed using bandages and Morphine and the first aid tent. Ideally a balance needs to be struck where the player can take a hit and be able to be healed completely while still behaving realistically to the type of wound inflicted to a degree. ACE did quite well with complaints and groans by the player when he was injured and screams but at the same time you have wounded AI in ACE1 for Arma 1 that still posed a threat after being shot.

[silentghoust 132]

Yes, but the damage system on A2 was much better than it is on A3

Explain to me exactly how? 

[DamnRelentless 2]

I agree that the damage system is a huge problem. Do you know the moment if the enemy is wobbling while shooting him. I mean you now that you hit him but that looks kinda ugly and it's not that realistic as it should be.

[evil koala 6]

 

3D scopes : a big problem in Arma 3 since the beginning of this, there's no realistic zoom, I know the limitation of the engine caused with the big open world but it's a big deal like in Insurgency to match more the reality, other games do better than Arma and it's a good way to follow.

 

 

I would agree that ArmA's 3D scopes are certainly less realistic than other games that do 3D scopes, but I also find 3D scopes to be less realistic than 2D scopes in general. 3D scopes usually limit field of view and resolution far more than a 2D representation. Also, 3D scopes with free aim just make no sense at all.. The view should be fixed through the scope.. and if its fixed, why bother with a 3D scope at all?

[lugiahua 26]

Only thing that gets me is the damage system in arma, which is 100% garbage. Where if you have no armor you die way to easily, which is not how it works in real life. People very rarely die to single bullet hits and often only go down after multiple hits, even with 7.62. Also how you can shot a guy in the foot and he dies, which is just retarded. Many people have had land mines blow off chunks of their feet to almost their entire legs and very often survive. Most shots to limbs are flesh wounds even with large caliber bullets, because either there is to little flesh to stop the bullet thus have damage occur or damage that occur at best just disables your arm or leg.

Plus we have extremely poorly done body armor, which does not match realistic performance in any way. After all lvl 4 body armor in real life is designed to stop armor piercing 7.62 and quite a few hits, well in game 7.62 can drop a guy with lvl 4 armor with ease.

 

View it as incapacitated then it would make sense.

True, many people survive multiple gunshots, but they are also usually incapacitated very soon following that and require surgical intervention and months of rehabilitation, which is beyond the scope of this game.

In fact, your argument can be applied to "any" games on the market, even VBS. Characters always going down faster than real life counter parts.