Apex Weapon Feedback

[road runner 4344]

Bipod on the AK12 is still buggy.

 

 

 

 

I reported that when Apex was still on dev, but as you can see nothing got changed.

There's another weapon, can't recall it offhand that has a shadow glitch on the Bipod too. Will need to fire up A3 and check it again.

[IndeedPete 1038]

I reported that when Apex was still on dev, but as you can see nothing got changed.

 

Probably some artist thinking it looks super tacticool.^^

[the_educater 0]

After messing around with scuba on Tanoa wasteland it has come to my attention that the rajheme (no idea how to spell it), Opfor's default 7.62x54 marksman rifle  sucks. So I did some testing/research and my findings astonished me:

 

-First of all the 7.62x54 cartridge has (on average) a higher muzzle velocity and holds that higher velocity longer than 7.62nato rounds. So why in the world does the rajheme in game have a higher ballistic arc than the mk1 emr and a longer travel time? Now this could be explained by a shorter barrel, but the rajheme is a bullpup design and has a similar length barrel to the rest of the 7.62 rifles, also this could be explained by a different shaped bullet but again the 7.62x54 bullet is nearly identical to the 7.62nato bullet. what gives Bi????

 

-secondly the rajheme has the same weight as the mx, is less than ~5cm longer than the mx, But the rajheme can not fit in a back pack that the mx only fills up 1/3 of the way, why Bi????

 

If only the second gripe of mine was fixed I would be happy, since then I could bring the rifle with me when I am diving.

[DeltaUMi 4]

In relation to the most recent update 1.64 (at the time I write this), I believe that the changes to the AK-12 were a bit too much. I know that the reductions to its muzzle velocity and ballistics penetration was primarily due to people complaining it is too "OP" in game. I can agree that the muzzle velocity was somewhat too high in the first place for its caliber (somewhere in the ballpark of 880-920 m/second if i remember correctly), it is now about 720 m/second and I noticed that its velocity loss over distance is worse that any of the other 7.62mm or 6.5mm rifles in the game (I found this through a combination of checking the velocity at different distances and using the bullet cam feature to see how far the rounds can actually travel). I believe this makes the AK-12 almost completely obsolete compared to all the other weapons in its class (even considering its burst fire mechanic). I would like to see more of a compromise for this weapon, not as powerful as it was before but not rendered inferior compared to the other 7.62 rifles, something in the middle, say 820 m/second and make its velocity loss over distance more comparable to the other 7.62x39mm rifles as it currently seems to loose its velocity at a much higher rate (after all they are the same caliber of ammunition i.e. the same physical dimensions [same aerodynamics] and similar weight and should therefore lose velocity over distance at a similar rate at their respective starting velocities which are different due to different barrel lengths, quality of the firing chamber fit to the round, etc.) 

 

Concerning the complaints that the AK-12 ballistic penetration of materials was too high prior to the patch, I personally believe this is complete nonsense. I find that in Arma 3 people have a tendency of complaining when they get hit while taking cover behind very flimsy cover. Cover such as tin shacks, two by four planks of wood (which I believe the huts on Tanoa are primary made out of yet people complain when rounds penetrate them), plastic sheets around construction sites, trees, etc. All of these forms of "cover" will provide little to no protection against a FMJ 7.62x39mm round in real life at close range. Observe this simple ballistics test using nothing more than a 9mm pistol (not even using FMJ ammunition as stated in the video)

if a standard 9mm pistol round moving at about 375 m/second (typical velocity for a Glock 17 which I believe is the weapon he is using in the clip) can make it through 3 two by four's and still embed itself in the fourth I ask you with tears in my eyes what do you think a 7.62x39mm (especially if it is a FMJ) moving at about 720 m/second (just under double the speed) will do against a single two by four as the huts on Tanoa seem to consist of? Personally I think people who complained about the penetration prior to the patch simply need to learn to use thicker and harder forms of cover in a firefight as appose to reworking the weapons to make then less realistic to suit their inability do differentiate between hard cover and concealment cover, after all Arma 3 is a sandbox military simulation game, so does it not make sense that the player should have to deal some of the fundamentals of a firefight in real life (such as selecting good cover) as soldiers have to do in real life?

 

Here's hoping my argument is considered by the Bohemia interactive development team.

 

Best regards

Coretex47

 

You are right about the AK series being nerfed due to complaints, but these complaints have substantial evidence in favor of nerfing the AK for realism. There is more to ballistics than just the caliber of the bullet. The AK-12 does not use the same ammunition as the other 7.62mm rifles in game. The AK-12, as you correctly stated, uses the 7.62x39mm, but the other rifles, the marksman and machineguns, use 7.62x51mm NATO and 7.62x54mm CSAT rounds. Notice the second number after "7.62", such as 39mm and 51mm. That number indicates the cartridge size, which is more or less proportional to the amount of propellant used to propel the bullet. As you probably noticed, the AK-12 round is substantial smaller in this department, as a result, these rounds have worst ballistics than the rounds used in the marksman rifles and machineguns. This is alright since the AK-12 is not supposed to be classed with the heavier machinegun and marksman rifles; the AK-12 is an assault rifle, which is the same class as the 5.56 and 6.5 rifles.

 

PS: If you don't like the AK-12 anymore, try using the small caliber assault rifles. The AK-12 is a dated weapon anyway, hence why Russia converted their AKs to the smaller 5.45x39mm caliber and NATO uses the 5.56x45mm. These rounds have better ballistics and offer roughly the same amount of damage. I prefer the 5.8mm rifle myself in game.

[silentghoust 132]

Any chance will see a flashlight attachment for the Protector? It seemed planned since the police equipment box has them in it. Kinda kills the use of the weapon for police action if you can't even have a flashlight on it.

[jarrad96 1940]

Some things I would really like to have on the Apex weapons-

Supressor support for the AKM / AKSU, ideally with a new russian style, PBS type supressor. 

OG-7, or some other HE round for the RPG-7, as it lacks an anti-personell/ structure round compared to the RPG-32, as well as either a visible fixed zero distance if the RPG7 is to remain un-zeroable, or adjustable zeroing. 

Fixes for the Protector/ HK's such as the hand clipping with the iron sights- also the protector looks really unfinished, texture wise- it's noticeably lower quality than the rest of the weapons. 

Faction-

Expand the Syndikate faction to include technicals (including armed techincals) and (opinion) split the Paramilitary forces from 'Infantry' category to 'special forces'.

A few more units for the Gendarme would be nice, as they are a complete joke right now- I get that they are meant to be a police faction, but maybe give them a 4 man team in addition to the 2 man team, and maybe a SWAT type larger group, maybe using some of the existing unused gear such as the Raven Vest and the new skate helmet. Add some of the Tactical Chest Rigs to Syndikate. 

[machineabuse 11]

To echo what some have already said; Having reflex optics closer to the eye is sub-optimal in reality for several more reasons unmentioned;

1. More of the optic is blocking your vision.
2. Optical parallax increases (and yes, with holosights and red dots there IS optical parallax despite the marketing.).
3. Any aberrations in the sight picture whether they be artifacts in the glass due to the reflections in the optic electronics, chromatic shifts, what have you become more noticeable.

What you learn when you start messing with reflex optics is that the further out you can have them without adversely affecting the balance of the rifle or occluding part of the reticule (holo) the better. After all no matter how far the optic is you will still perceive the reticule being the same size.

Added advantage is the further out the optic the more useful it is as a ghost ring in the event the optic dies/you forgot to turn it on/you can't see the reticule or dot because of lighting conditions.

 

[road runner 4344]

To echo what some have already said; Having reflex optics closer to the eye is sub-optimal in reality for several more reasons unmentioned;

1. More of the optic is blocking your vision.

2. Optical parallax increases (and yes, with holosights and red dots there IS optical parallax despite the marketing.).

3. Any aberrations in the sight picture whether they be artifacts in the glass due to the reflections in the optic electronics, chromatic shifts, what have you become more noticeable.

What you learn when you start messing with reflex optics is that the further out you can have them without adversely affecting the balance of the rifle or occluding part of the reticule (holo) the better. After all no matter how far the optic is you will still perceive the reticule being the same size.

Added advantage is the further out the optic the more useful it is as a ghost ring in the event the optic dies/you forgot to turn it on/you can't see the reticule or dot because of lighting conditions.

 

How many Tier 1 guys have you seen use their optics on Ops in this manner? :P  Pretty much all pictorial evidence doesn't support what you've said mate,  99% of the time I've always seen optics mounted and had them mounted midway on the upper receiver on M4 type platforms. I don't believe you would have the likes of Paul Howe, Pat MacNamara,  Kyle Lamb or Larry Vickers endorse the optics position so far forwards ;) :D

Basic marksmanship principles still apply being the sight alignment/sight picture must be correct,  ie correct eye relief.

Whilst I understand what you're saying, and there's an element of truth in there as well,with the military, most red dot/holographic sights tend to be used in conjunction with magnifiers these days,so mounting them so far forwards would make any magnifier moot.  

[machineabuse 11]

How many Tier 1 guys have you seen use their optics on Ops in this manner? :P  Pretty much all pictorial evidence doesn't support what you've said mate,  99% of the time I've always seen optics mounted and had them mounted midway on the upper receiver on M4 type platforms. I don't believe you would have the likes of Paul Howe, Pat MacNamara,  Kyle Lamb or Larry Vickers endorse the optics position so far forwards ;) :D

Basic marksmanship principles still apply being the sight alignment/sight picture must be correct,  ie correct eye relief.

Whilst I understand what you're saying, and there's an element of truth in there as well,with the military, most red dot/holographic sights tend to be used in conjunction with magnifiers these days,so mounting them so far forwards would make any magnifier moot.  

The key to the sentence you highlighted is the middle sentence. The point highlighting weapon balance and reticule occlusion.

In case that was difficult to understand by the way I wrote it the first time; to put it more simply (and state it explicitly) there is a point where putting the optic any further forwards makes the gun too front heavy and the dot/reticule too slow to acquire in the sight picture.

Prior to the adoption of what was once jargoned the "flat top" receiver, they used to sell optic mounts that cantilevered forward of the carry handle, in fact famously this was how the M68 was mounted for a long while. Even after flat-tops (I'm so glad that jargon is dead) became commonplace there still existed cantilevered mounts to push the optic out over the foreend.

Digression aside, my point was that it is still beneficial to push CCOs out to just inside the point of diminishing returns as it gives you the benefits as mentioned in my previous post.

To give you a highlighted term to ponder; I don't know why you would bring eye relief up, since it's irrelevant for unmagnified optics. Not a tit for tat, I just found that conflating ;)

On the same page now I hope.

[machineabuse 11]

This conversation reminded me of this;

https://youtu.be/COL4yjufQL8?t=9m43s

[road runner 4344]

This conversation reminded me of this;

https://youtu.be/COL4yjufQL8?t=9m43s

Travis has some nice toys, I've actually known Travis since 2004, when he was with Blackwater, had several conversations with him on another forum I used to moderate on, not long after the Najaf incident.

[dusieqq 0]

Hello and nice to meet everyone here, this is my first post so pardon me if the subject im going to describe was already talked about but it really makes me confused, i've used search engine and haven't found any clear info that my problem has been already covered so please beware because this is going to be bit longer post.

My problem is rpg-7 grenade launcher.

The ballistics in said weapon are a complete mess in my opinion, that is coming from someone who achieved test shots with alamut rpg on the distance of 960m during the training and accurate hits over 800m during the multiplayer gaming.Why am i saying the ballistics are wrong? Let me explain on the example of alamut.
With alamut the rocket drop is quite big and you have to know the distance to be able to perfectly shot above 500m mark because then the rocket starts dropping down quite hard and you have to tilt up to be able to still deliver the rocket, bit like with under barrel grenade launchers...
With Rpg-7 it's not the case! I've just tested how the velocity of a grenade acts and... there is no bloody drop velocity! Rocket just goes straight, what's more it does not show up... ever!

I've tested it on following distances:

100, 200, 300, 500m there was no velocity drop

600m noticed something fishy but continued

700, 800, 900m definitely something is off with it

1km, 1,2 then finally 1,3 km shots have been successful too!

Then proceeded to test the weapon even further and discovered it's final distance to be +- 1680m! I've had shot at 1.7km which made the grenade explode mid air, just in front of the target.

What's the fishy thing I've smelt about this weapon all this time?

It's mechanics are off! While aiming starting at 600m you have to tilt your weapon a little bit lower! not higher! LOWER

If you enlarge first picture you will notice green and orange stripes.

Green stripe is anything below 600m

Yellow stripe is anything above it up to 1.3km away

Then You are slowly backing off to the green stripe as the distance grows.

 

 

[OlegAckbar 47]

Fix please AK-12 handle animation, it looks very strange and uncomfortable

[mickeymen 324]

On 13.12.2016 at 9:35 PM, OlegAckbar said:

Fix please AK-12 handle animation, it looks very strange and uncomfortable

Yes, In my opinion it looks ugly. 

12 july 2016(a one day after apex release) I have created a report on the feedback about this issue.  https://feedback.bistudio.com/T119297

But still it was not fixed! It seems to me that BIS doesn't care. Probably because it looks "Authentic", as they like to say.

Also, the surface of the AK-12 looks like a mirror.

 

[mickeymen 324]

On 21.08.2016 at 8:23 PM, JackSmithRU said:

At AK-12, have a gap in handle.

 

also this detail! ak-12 in the A3 the game is the worst weapon. Unfortunately, these details give rise to my desire to refuse to use the AK-12 in ARMA, because this weapon is done very badly.

[road runner 4344]

4 hours ago, mickeymen said:

 

also this detail! ak-12 in the A3 the game is the worst weapon. Unfortunately, these details give rise to my desire to refuse to use the AK-12 in ARMA, because this weapon is done very badly.

Hyperbole at its finest mickeyman, at what point in the game are you actually close enough to see the obvious gap? 

I believe this has been reported, and you do know that you're in no way obligated to use it, it's just another AK variant, it's not like it does anything differently from any other AK on the market, or in addons.

A couple of vertices out of place, and you say it's done badly..... I'm interested to see the model of the AK12 you made, it must be pretty top notch.

[mickeymen 324]

On 17.12.2016 at 4:58 AM, road runner said:

On 17.12.2016 at 4:58 AM, road runner said:

Hyperbole at its finest mickeyman, at what point in the game are you actually close enough to see the obvious gap? 

I believe this has been reported, and you do know that you're in no way obligated to use it, it's just another AK variant, it's not like it does anything differently from any other AK on the market, or in addons.

A couple of vertices out of place, and you say it's done badly..... I'm interested to see the model of the AK12 you made, it must be pretty top notch.

 

 

Hi. Why are you asking me to show you the AK-12 which I did alone, not clear for me. 

Yes, if I will have the desire, then I can make this work and it will be much better quality, I am sure.
But I'm not the seller of the this game!  The seller is Bohemia Interactive Studio! 

@BIS - is great studio, which asks money for their work, for this reason, people have reason to express discontent. Personally, I bought the Apex, and I see is a not good work.  Worst of all, there is no hurry to fix this.

 

The AK-12 should have a black and matte surface. This is a must have reflectivity == 0! 

 

 

But what we see in Apex? - mirrored weapon, that looks as if the developers of these weapons, wanted do the AK-12 a noticeable to all enemies from afar.

In addition to problem of surface, we have a more small problems of this weapon.

It's the left hand that not correctly holds the weapon, the handle problem (provided above in the image) and poor modeling of the magazine (to compare the model in the game and in reality) I think it's too much troubles for one of the weapons in the game. 

 

If I'm wrong, then let me know...

PS: For example, you can see HLC AK- Mod, so all the AK (especialy AK-12)  look much better and realistic than in vanilla Arma3. 

 

[{Tambat} 0]

Can the AK-12 have a darker tint? The current color brightness of the ak-12's textures are extremely bad.

 

And for another issue, the AKM, AK-12, and AK-74U all sound like walmart toys. They sound so weak imo. 

 

And another thing, why the hell don't the AKM and AK-74U have suppressors? That's really stupid tbh. PBS suppressors exist do they not?

[joostsidy 685]

On 2-1-2017 at 11:31 PM, mickeymen said:

But what we see in Apex? Mirrored rifle, that looks like as if the developers would like the AK-12 so that it was visible to opponents from afar.

 

 

Yeah, It's so shiny that for some time I thought it was done on purpose, a custom 'bragging' rifle for thugs. But that makes it useless for soldiers to use it. Other rifles are too shiny as well so the shiny-ness is an important issue.

 

On the other hand, a couple of black weapons do look good, the smaller ones (SMG) like the Vermin, look black and matte (not shiny), so that proves it's doable.

[Brisse 78]

Edit: Removed post.

[mickeymen 324]

On 06.01.2017 at 1:57 PM, joostsidy said:

 

 Other rifles are too shiny as well so the shiny-ness is an important issue.

Totally agree. unfortunatelly BIS is abusing the specularity effects in the game. This is also noticeable on the surface of civilian cars. 

It can be tolerated anywhere , but too much shine for weapons - it's all realy nonsense.

The worst thing, that can be a hundred times to write - "Hey @BIS, please fix the problem", but man which wrote it will receive only hundred ignoring. 

 

[Brisse 78]

Quote

Tweaked: The RPG-7 now has zeroing and a correct rocket drop (https://feedback.bistudio.com/T120528)

 

Now it doesn't behave like a rocket propelled grenade at all. You turned it into something more resembling a recoilless rifle, like Carl Gustaf ( Grg m/48 ) or something like that. It wasn't perfect before either, but it was actually closer to reality.

 

The exact ballistics depends on which type of ammunition is being used, but the pg-7vm (which is faster and lighter than earlier variants) we have in the game should have a muzzle velocity of around 140m/s. The sustainer rocket should ignite after the grenade travelled about 11 meters from the launcher. It will then eventually accelerate to 300-350m/s and self destruct around 900m out.

 

Before the update, it was working somewhat, but the velocities were not perfect. Muzzle velocity was 117m/s which would fit older munitions, but not the pg-7vm. Max velocity observed before latest dev-branch update was 400m/s which is too fast so the thrust parameter was probably set too high, or the weight too low (should be 2.0kg).

 

After the update I see 160m/s pretty much immediately after launch and then it drops off. There is no sustainer rocket doing it's thing any more, thus you have turned it into a recoilless rifle.

 

I see that there has been previous complaints in this thread and on the feedback tracker, but I don't consider those complaints valid because the people making those requests obviously aren't familiar with the ballistics of an RPG. They seem to expect the rocket to travel in a parabolic arc like a standard bullet, but that's not how an RPG works. The sustainer rocket will affect the trajectory in ways which first might seem unintuitive. Good thing for them that wind ballistics aren't modelled because then they would have even more trouble hitting things. Again, it's not at first intuitive. It takes a lot of training to understand and become proficient at using these RPG-7's.

 

Sources:

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/rpg-7.pdf

http://gunrf.ru/rg_granatomet_ps-7_PG-7VM_eng.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7

http://www.bulcomersks.com/index.php/military-products/ammunition/54-amunition/ammunitions-for-anti-tank-weapons/631-40mm-round-pg-7vm

http://romarm.ro/product/pg7vm-round-3/

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/rpg_7.htm

[_leech 29]

Inverted WARNING logo on the MQ-12 Falcon

 

[Blackbomber200 11]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:58 PM, Locklear said:

 

We'd like to eventually fix the bullets. In most cases, it really isn't that hard, and we like our guns neat. ;) Actually, even some of our older weapons deserve some love in this matter. However, we decided to leave these lower-priority tweaks for after Apex release to conserve time for more urgent fixes and to avoid any unnecessary tinkering with data shortly before release. It usually destroys the universe and whatnot, you know. :)

Hi I don't know if Developers still check the Forums on a blog as old as this, but I'm pretty sure the SPAR-16 still does not visually have bullets inside of the magazines when you put them into the gun. I just thought I'd like to bring this up again, since its been almost a year since APEX release date, I know you guys are working on the Jets DLC, but Id like for the guns from older DLCs to still get some tender loving care.

[peegee 118]

AK-12 and AK-12GL still have the old hand animation issue. Looks rather painful. AKM for reference.