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On 2017-6-12 at 0:27 PM, maxjoiner said:

I can't reply at this question for obvious reasons....

Not very obvious to me.

Explain. Is it a secret amongst developers?

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On 2017-6-12 at 11:27 AM, maxjoiner said:

I can't reply at this question for obvious reasons....

Why not? Not all of the mod is your own work, alot of the content started out as BIS content from Arma2. 

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yeah it would be an interesting feature which can be used is various ways.

 

Looks like Im not the only one thats all ears.

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On ‎14‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 3:55 PM, R0adki11 said:

Why not? Not all of the mod is your own work, alot of the content started out as BIS content from Arma2. 

After Years of hard work on modding always polemics, I've explained in more posts my reasons, I'm very tired of these continuous requests,

I'm losing my passion to make modding, and this is one of the reasons.....Please I want not to continue this discussion...Let's finish here...

On ‎13‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 6:36 PM, Brett Staats said:

Really good job dude

Thanks mate.

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1 hour ago, maxjoiner said:

After Years of hard work on modding always polemics, I've explained in more posts my reasons, I'm very tired of these continuous requests,

I'm losing my passion to make modding, and this is one of the reasons.....Please I want not to continue this discussion...Let's finish here...

Thanks mate.

Well that's a shame that you feel that way, i always thought one of the great things of this community was to help others and to share knowledge gained.

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I have read the thread three times now. And your 'rules' for using the mod. But nowhere there is an explanation for it all.

 

I tested this on our own public server. But the text still showed up. While the description says it is not allowed to use on private servers.

The terms of use also contain a positive credit, in order to use it. I got an email from you, saying I am allowed to use it now. But never got any fix for the popping up text.

 

The text implies that it can be removed after a donation is made, so technically you are trying to sell your mod. Gaining money by selling content made using both the base of BIS's own work and the Tools. Since you are no formal reseller and I dont see a formal demo and selling contract anywhere its even doubtfull if a version without the textspawn will be given to the buyer (or socalled donator)

 

According to the EULA of A3tools, under paragraph 2 "The licensor also specifically prohibits the use of the Software for other purpose than designing, developing, testing, and producing non-commercial game content for computer games developed by the Licensor only."

 

Which means these practices are illigal or atleast an effort to circum navigate these rules to make money using BIS content with their tools.

 

No we are not forced to download your mod. But neither I am forced to make a testride with a car. The difference is, I would eventually buy it from someone who is making a fair and legal bussiness.

So not being forced to download doesnt undo the fact that these practices are against the EULA.

 

An EULA you personally agreed to uppon installing. And probably recently again with an update.

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Dear Crielaard, You wrote:

 

"I got an email from you, saying I am allowed to use it now".

 

So I've gave You the permission to use my mod on your server... I don't understand which is your problem....

 

My Women mod works 100% on line without limitations, and my red text appears random, just to remember the enormous 

 

work I've made on this mod to reach these results.

 

Sometime to read my red text I don't think it's a Big sacrifice....

 

Thanks for the EULA explanation but I don't sell my Mod,  In fact It's possible to download it for free,

 

and I repeat: My Women mod works 100% on line without limitations.

 

I accept only free donations, while when somebody asks me a new Mod or a big work

 

I try to find an accord.... take a look here:

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/forum/200-arma-3-find-or-offer-editing/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, maxjoiner said:

my red text appears random, just to remember the enormous 

 

work I've made on this mod to reach these results.

 

but what about ALL the other mods that took equally or bigger amounts of work that don't do this? don't get me wrong. of course you can do whatever you like. but don't act like it objectively makes sense. are you saying you have some special role and your mod took more work than any other mod out there?

 

sorry for continuing the discussion but the one single reason this keeps coming up is because what you did makes ZERO sense. seems more like a desperate attempt at keeping some type of control. believe me, i understand the effort behind these things. been there several times.

but all you are doing is basically wasting all the effort you put in because most people won't use the mod because of a totally 100% unnecessary drawback that you deliberately put in there most likely just to scare of some life communities who will just unpack the mod, remove the message and repack it.

the average user that has no idea how to repack an addon, the person you are not aiming your misguided effort at, is the one that will be affected by this the most while the people your aiming at will just laugh at this.

 

don't hate, go ahead and do as you please. just some food for thought.

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In addition to that the message appear about every 5 minutes.

Which means, it is technically in the middle of your face the whole time. Or atleast that is how it is experienced in any game length.

 

Why not make it a small logo?

which is exactly the reason why I asked HOW you did it. because it is a feature that can be used for the good.

 

As Benson said. You are hitting the audiance that want to use your mod in a fair way. In a way that will give you credit even without asking.

The 'begging' for credit actually puts you on discredit. It's a shame because no one can deny it is some excellent work.

I would have clicked that 'give credit' button the first day I tried this mod, without even noticing the request or begging for credits..until 5 minutes into the game. That was when I decided not to.

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max,  I am ecstatic you took the time and trouble to produce this mod.  I do not have a clue as to how much time and talent this takes.  

Hell I struggle through just making the arma 3 maps and getting this all right.   I'm sure I would have donated but seeing the red letters constantly after struggling to finally building and then using a map is disheartening.  I have no knowledge how to remove them but think the tremendous efforts were cheapened by this add on within your mod.  sorry.   Best of luck. 

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Well, I take act of all your problems, I've decided to abandon my women project...Good Luck to all!

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3 minutes ago, maxjoiner said:

Well, I take act of all your problems, I've decided to abandon my women project...Good Luck to all!

Thats a shame, perhaps you could consider to remove the message in the addon, so the addon can be still used by the community?

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16 hours ago, maxjoiner said:

Well, I take act of all your problems, I've decided to abandon my women project...Good Luck to all!

As a female gamer since forever, I love the Arma brand because I can make my own maps.   I guess I was really excited when I saw your work - finally a guy that gets it.   Then it's basically useless unless I pay a ransom. Well sir. You are a Genius in the modeling realm but maybe you lack a bit in the marketing realm?  You put your great stuff out in the community but then make it  unusable.  Like you paint a masterpiece then paint a smiley face over it with cheap spray paint.   Now you going to take your toys and go home because we didn't like the rules.  In my opinion this doesn't make sense.  You go on and on about all the work you put into it and now you are going to piss away all that work because you got your feeling hurt.   I would have gladly paid a premium for this if you had charged me on the front end.

 

So sorry. I wish you good fortune in your endeavors.   What a waste. 

 

 

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Well, I take act of all your problems, I've decided to abandon my women project...Good Luck to all!

 

If this is the case will you now let people edit and upgrade the mod ?

 

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On 1.7.2017 at 2:43 AM, zonekiller said:

 

If this is the case will you now let people edit and upgrade the mod ?

 


Why should he? I'd rather recommend him to no longer use BI Tools or to sell the original models together with a guide how to make them work in ArmA 3. With both ways he can legally sell his work by "simply" totally avoiding Bohemia. An own server would surely pay out aswell.

 

It's quite frustrating that the content creators get no chance of selling their content in ArmA after putting hours of awesome work in it, while every server/community owner can directly or indirectly make unreasonable amounts of money with your and other peoples work.

 

 

On 29.6.2017 at 4:20 AM, nigheve said:

... You put your great stuff out in the community but then make it  unusable ...  I would have gladly paid a premium for this if you had charged me on the front end.

 

 

Same here, but it's really not that simple. I did put many thoughts and a huge amount of work of about 2 years in how I can continuously reward original creators (including maxjoiner) without getting problems with BI or breaking any community ethics (no pay2win, no shops, no restricted contents, no ads, security, privacy, protection against content/IP theft, etc.). Hopefully I'm soon satisfied enough with my work for it to be released ^^

 

I feel totally sorry for people like maxjoiner who get many problems for creating something awesome (he almost got his account banned because of his mods). It's understandable that not everyone can or wants to pay other peoples work yet something must be done in terms of fairness towards content creators who are a huge factor for ArmAs success to begin with.

 

About the message that does pop up all the time: Content theft is sadly widely spread in this game (just check the SW, Tonics work, EA stuff) if he doesn't want to tell you, it's probably because of the justified fear that someone tries to remove it.

 

((this is my personal opinion))

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4 hours ago, armitxes said:


Why should he? I'd rather recommend him to no longer use BI Tools or to sell the original models together with a guide how to make them work in ArmA 3. With both ways he can legally sell his work by "simply" totally avoiding Bohemia. An own server would surely pay out aswell.

 

It's quite frustrating that the content creators get no chance of selling their content in ArmA after putting hours of awesome work in it, while every server/community owner can directly or indirectly make unreasonable amounts of money with your and other peoples work.

 

Same here, but it's really not that simple. I did put many thoughts and a huge amount of work of about 2 years in how I can continuously reward original creators (including maxjoiner) without getting problems with BI or breaking any community ethics (no pay2win, no shops, no restricted contents, no ads, security, privacy, protection against content/IP theft, etc.). Hopefully I'm soon satisfied enough with my work for it to be released ^^

 

I feel totally sorry for people like maxjoiner who get many problems for creating something awesome (he almost got his account banned because of his mods). It's understandable that not everyone can or wants to pay other peoples work yet something must be done in terms of fairness towards content creators who are a huge factor for ArmAs success to begin with.

 

About the message that does pop up all the time: Content theft is sadly widely spread in this game (just check the SW, Tonics work, EA stuff) if he doesn't want to tell you, it's probably because of the justified fear that someone tries to remove it.

 

((this is my personal opinion))

 

While I'm totally fine with voluntary donations and paid commissions, I also think that mods are the result of hard work and passion for a certain game, it's something you don't do for money. Mods are like a hobby that makes both you and the community happy. Sadly there's no way to stop content stealers for good, they're a huge hydra and for every head you cut off, two more grow back. The same thing goes for life communities, a lot of dishonest owners make money over other people's content and I think they should face harsher punishments. I'm not saying that mod developers should surrender and accept that their content gets stolen, there are means to fight back even if it's a neverending battle. I strongly disagree with the whole "sell the original models" thing, because even if he put a lot of work on them, they're not entirely his doing, he ported and modified bohemia interactive's stuff. Can you explain what you mean by suggesting to avoid Bohemia ? In my book it sounds a lot like misappropriation of someone else's content. Last, but not least, I can perfectly understand max's urge to somehow protect his mod, but in my opinion he missed the point. That red text can easily be removed by people with basic unpacking and repacking knowledge and I bet that his target (life communities and content stealers) had a good laugh while doing it. Putting a drawback to scare off this kind of people had the opposite effect and hit the audience that wanted to use the mod fairly.

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3 hours ago, red_spring said:

 

While I'm totally fine with voluntary donations and paid commissions, mods are the result of hard work and passion for a certain game, it's something you don't do for money. Mods are like a hobby that makes both you and the community happy. Sadly there's no way to stop content stealers for good, they're a huge hydra and for every head you cut off, two more grow back. The same thing goes for life communities, a lot of dishonest owners make money over other people's content and I think they should face harsher punishments. I'm not saying that mod developers should surrender and accept that their content gets stolen, there are means to fight back even if it's a neverending battle. I strongly disagree with the whole "sell the original models" thing because even if he put a lot of work on them, they're not entirely his doing, he ported and modified bohemia interactive's stuff. Can you explain what you mean by suggesting to avoid Bohemia ? In my book it sounds a lot like misappropriation. Last, but not least, I understand max's urge to somehow protect his mod, but in my opinion he missed the point. That red text can easily be removed by people with basic unpacking and repacking knowledge and I bet that his target (life communities and content stealers) had a good laugh while doing it. Putting a drawback to scare off this kind of people had the opposite effect and hit the audience that wanted to use the mod fairly.

 

That should be totally up to the content creator. He invests his free time for free in this game, and only he shall decide what happens with his creation. You are at no time forced to use it. It would be a totally other story if ArmA had strict non-monetization rules but if I'm planning to make money with (the help of) other peoples work then for me it's only natural and an absolute minimum to either pay them once (what isn't possible due BI Rules) or to even give them a fair share of my profits. It's nothing too difficult.

 

I think we're also having a similar opinion, but are focused on a totally different audience. Non-profit servers, singleplayer missions or a bunch of friends who simply want to have some fun together aren't the problem here. Maxjoiner or others probably (of course I can't guarantee) wouldn't have a problem with them having some fun. Yet it's hard and it often costs time you don't have to track down who is using your work for what. So I can totally understand that it's annoying to have messages or watermarks popping up over your screen - maybe some things could have been done better here (min. 5 players, increased minimum time gap between the random messages, etc.), and maybe worse - but It's just how it is and max had his good reasons for it that simply didn't play out that well.

 

3 hours ago, red_spring said:

 

I strongly disagree with the whole "sell the original models" thing because even if he put a lot of work on them, they're not entirely his doing, he ported and modified bohemia interactive's stuff. 


This was not his only mod that he got this problems with, he has many models ported to A3 that for sure don't belong to bohemia. Maybe configs and the via BI Tools converted stuff, but not the original models. What brings me to the next point: Using BI Tools binds you to the BI EULA, not doing so - doesn't. Thereby he can monetize all he wants aslong as he avoids the usage BI products & services.

 

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11 hours ago, armitxes said:

 

That should be totally up to the content creator. He invests his free time for free in this game, and only he shall decide what happens with his creation. You are at no time forced to use it. It would be a totally other story if ArmA had strict non-monetization rules but if I'm planning to make money with (the help of) other peoples work then for me it's only natural and an absolute minimum to either pay them once (what isn't possible due BI Rules) or to even give them a fair share of my profits. It's nothing too difficult.

 

I think we're also having a similar opinion, but are focused on a totally different audience. Non-profit servers, singleplayer missions or a bunch of friends who simply want to have some fun together aren't the problem here. Maxjoiner or others probably (of course I can't guarantee) wouldn't have a problem with them having some fun. Yet it's hard and it often costs time you don't have to track down who is using your work for what. So I can totally understand that it's annoying to have messages or watermarks popping up over your screen - maybe some things could have been done better here (min. 5 players, increased minimum time gap between the random messages, etc.), and maybe worse - but It's just how it is and max had his good reasons for it that simply didn't play out that well.

 


This was not his only mod that he got this problems with, he has many models ported to A3 that for sure don't belong to bohemia. Maybe configs and the via BI Tools converted stuff, but not the original models. What brings me to the next point: Using BI Tools binds you to the BI EULA, not doing so - doesn't. Thereby he can monetize all he wants aslong as he avoids the usage BI products & services.

 


I agree to a certain extent, content creators invest their free time to make mods but I don't think they should charge for them, they were born as free content and it should stay that way. As I said, voluntary donations or paid commissions are more than fine, probably the best ways to go and the most appreciable ones, because you're not forced to pay a "ransom" . Why would I spend money for a mod when I can have a DLC? I'm not forced to buy it, you're right, but bear in mind that it would be like throwing all the hard work in the dust bin. The way I see it, modding is not about money, it never was and it never will. I know a certain game company (can't name it, but you know who they are) that tried to pull this move and it didn't end well for them. In my opinion there's no point in modding for money, if you're in for it then you're in for the wrong motives. If one day I come up and say: "Hey guys, I reskinned aaf and csat uniforms, it's 5,99€ each, but it becomes 3,99€ if you buy them toghether" I think half of the forum would laugh their ass off and the other half would send me to hell. But if I say: "Hey guys, I made this mod, I worked really hard for it and it's really good content, can you please donate something to show your support?" then it would be different. Payment shouldn't be purported, it's an extra. I also think that if I were to put some kind of annoying wall of text in the unpaid version of the mod I would piss off a lot of people to the point where no one would use it anymore. A logo or some kind of smaller watermark would do the trick and still give me some kind of credit, wouldn't it?
In this specific case, he ported BIS content from another BIS game to A3. Why would he be entitled to sell it? I'm not following you there, so if I take, let's say, a ww1 soldier uniform from a certain game from another company, without using their tools then I could sell it? Quite unethical, even if I were to improve it. If he's having (or had) problems with his other mods, then there's something going on. Obviously I don't know what happened and I don't want to make accusations, but I hardly belive that he risked his account for nothing, maybe he broke some rules here and there, without even knowing it.

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On ‎28‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 5:49 AM, maxjoiner said:

Well, I take act of all your problems, I've decided to abandon my women project...Good Luck to all!

Hey @maxjoiner, many people in this community aren't understanding what you're trying to get at here. Please continue this mod, and find a few new goals to achieve with it!

 

We all love what you're doing and the uproar here is because we'd hate to see such a good mod and modder restrict access to such a mod!

 

Please let me know if there's anything you need in terms of help or if you'd like to release this mod to the greater community so we can continue it's greatness!

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No, the upper roar is that great work is in vain because the screen gets filled every 2 minutes with fat red text. And when all has been done to get rid of this (post a review and donate money) there is never a patch send to remove it. While this has been implicated by the modder himself.

 

Thus trying to make money with BIS's free templates and tools, which is against EULA.

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When I said I would gladly pay for it, I wouldn't care if it was direct or as a voluntary donation.   I don't understand all the ins and outs about whose content is who's but I would like to know the mod works before I do.   Talking about time.  I love to build my own sniper maps and I spent many an hour doing that just right.  The problem is I used the mod in this particular map, it won't run without it.   Certainly it takes no where near the time and knowledge if building a mod like this.

 

I was grateful to Max for doing this, of course. Not just the time but the fact that there are very little women icons in military type gaming.   I wish I knew how to build a mod, no matter the time and effort, and give it to the community.  Arma3, over many other military shooters, is more flexible in the fact many can make their own maps and design mods for the fun of it.  I chucked at the miniskirt models, but hey, that's life.  

 

The Mod community is made up of artists and Max is a great one.  There are many contributors to the game that live and die on how good the work is, like any other art form.  Some have 2 downloads some have hundreds.  I have never seen anyone put the pop up like that on any mod but to do so actually gives it a glitch that makes it unusable.  if you used a mod and it had a game altering glitch most wouldn't use it.   I contend he didn't think it through because he actually diminishes the value, on purpose   It is the nature of this community that word gets out and if I knew the pop up was there ahead of time, I wold have avoided it.    He worked so hard on this and destroyed the value.  I bet over time (and from many female gamers) he would have been rewarded more than most.   In fact I know I and at least 5 women games that were ready to build a server around this mod.  

 

We all spend big money on equipment, games and fast internet to play this game.   not to mention time.  No one is without  sacrifice to be able to play.   If you cannot sacrifice you are in it for a business and Arma and BI didn't build this one this way.  In my opinion he made a mistake that can be fixed.  My disappointment is he just quits.   

 

I made a mistake in not reading the forum first.  I should of known because I have run forums as far back as DF1.   I was excited over the mod, so that is on me.  I won't make that mistake again.   

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I think that Max mod is needed in a real military sim like is Arma series.... how many of you would like to use a female avatar? how many would like to see some females among the civilians just for immersion or having some in squad with you? I'd like the author will consider to let us download the mod again!

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On 8/7/2017 at 5:00 AM, nigheve said:

 I have never seen anyone put the pop up like that on any mod but to do so actually gives it a glitch that makes it unusable.  if you used a mod and it had a game altering glitch most wouldn't use it.   I contend he didn't think it through because he actually diminishes the value, on purpose    

It's not unusable like you claim, I didn't had a single one of any of those messages in sp (and this mod is used in 3 of my missions) so at worst you could say it only works for half part of the game.

 And that 0.1 was more like a teaser because he also worked on 2.0 version so you don't know if he removed those messages for mp, but I guess we won't see that version now with a few going ballistic because of that message.

In the end no one forces you to use it yet you keep complaining in this thread, I don't like it either but it's his mod, his decision.

 

There are a lot of us that wanted women in A3 (civ and soldiers) and there was a huge thread here on this matter, but at the end of the day only two people to my knowledge actually did something for us until now.

Those are Max and Zeealex and if this mod caused you such grievance then you could always wait for Zeealex work because her project is also nothing short of amazing.

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