Visual Upgrade – Feedback

[Fireball 16]

Sorry, I just had to chime in now; I saw those screenshots and downloaded dev immediately:

 

 

versus new:

 

 

 

And my first impression was: Who turned off the sun? Second thought was: This can't be the same weather condition! But yes, it is. :(

 

So I checked now in dev build and really: The warmth of the sun is completely gone. There is no "warm summer day" mood anymore, it's all cold and gray, even though the weather is supposedly clear at a Mediterranean noon!

 

This needs remediation before thinking about release.

[grumpy808 21]

Who turned off the sun?

 

The clouds? ;)

[2nd ranger 282]

There is no "warm summer day" mood anymore, it's all cold and gray, even though the weather is supposedly clear at a Mediterranean noon!

 

 

Exactly.  There's too much green/yellow in the palette (and blue in the morning), which takes all the warmth away. There was probably too much red in the old lighting, but it's been toned down too much now. It's not just the colours either - it's like the sun isn't bright enough. 12 noon just seems very dull. The weak shadows don't help either (googlava says he's going to remedy that part at least).

[nikiforos 450]

The clouds?

Guess you can have clouds but sun can still be visible and strong at times! I prefer the first picture not the dev.

[grumpy808 21]

Guess you can have clouds but sun can still be visible and strong at times! I prefer the first picture not the dev.

 

I get that the sun can shine through clouds, but as far as I know the engine doesn't have clouds that cast shadows. To me those pics look like they're taken on mostly overcast days near sundown. The engine probably says it's 90% cloudy so we'll light accordingly. The sunset images I've seen from Dev when it isn't cloudy look amazing!

 

To me the new lighting seems much more artist friendly. If you want a white building you use a white texture and it'll look correct under all conditions. With the old lighting model everything has a warm tint to it, even in the middle of the day. That's probably why there are so many complaints about it being too cool. It'll take some time for eyes to adjust. Like taking off tinted sunglasses.

[googlava 57]

OK, today's HDR and sky settings are way better. Toned down contrast really helps, however nights are still hurt rather badly at some settings (too much contrast still).

In fact daytime contrast should be increased as the image looks flatter now, but the solution has to be found for the night contrast to be decreased instead to pre 1.59 values or something along those lines.

 

Latest update's HDR and sky setting are also more universal now, fitting non-mediterranean maps much more

Hi, metalcraze

 

Thanks for an interesting feedback. Can you tell me what addon do you use for playing the cernarus? I will look at this map. 

I have wip config of light by your feedback, I am testing it. There will be a version with more darker shadows and pronounced self shading.

 

I will announce when the polished config will be ready for check.

 

Thanks to all for very good targeting feedback, I have to watching for thousend thing of the game and your feedback is very usefull for me.

[fabio_chavez 103]

guys wont you want to wait a few iterations of this before you make drastic conclusions?
initially there was too much ambientlight/too few direct light (by the way googlava, why is the "sunlight" called "diffuse light" in the configs, i allways wondered that :P),
but it was allready mentioned it will be further tweaked.

[googlava 57]

I get that the sun can shine through clouds, but as far as I know the engine doesn't have clouds that cast shadows. To me those pics look like they're taken on mostly overcast days near sundown. The engine probably says it's 90% cloudy so we'll light accordingly. The sunset images I've seen from Dev when it isn't cloudy look amazing!

 

To me the new lighting seems much more artist friendly. If you want a white building you use a white texture and it'll look correct under all conditions. With the old lighting model everything has a warm tint to it, even in the middle of the day. That's probably why there are so many complaints about it being too cool. It'll take some time for eyes to adjust. Like taking off tinted sunglasses.

Hi grumpy808,

 

you did hit the main idea why we made this change. I would like set the environment, which will allow to you make really realistic scenes. I am not happy hear of troubles which you have. How I said I listen to your opinions and if I can, I will improve the new light.

[googlava 57]

Sorry, I just had to chime in now; I saw those screenshots and downloaded dev immediately:

 

 

versus new:

 

 

 

And my first impression was: Who turned off the sun? Second thought was: This can't be the same weather condition! But yes, it is. :(

 

So I checked now in dev build and really: The warmth of the sun is completely gone. There is no "warm summer day" mood anymore, it's all cold and gray, even though the weather is supposedly clear at a Mediterranean noon!

 

This needs remediation before thinking about release.

Hi fireball,

 

In the config of light are three sets, one is for clear weather (overcast 0), next one for overcast 0.6 and 0.85 and higher. There is a blend between each other by the the value of overcast.

 

I see the very cloudy sky on your screen, well is not the reason why the sun is hidden? 

 

I could check it when you give me the time, overcast and date value.

[googlava 57]

I would like to see lightnings quality improved, right now does not look good.

 

Hi bratwurste,

 

thanks for a new direction of my attention. I've never really seen this situation in the game. It is look very unnaturally. I will ask our lead programmer for take attention for this.

[Fushko 59]

The sea doesn't reflect sky color and clouds at all.

 

Bug/known limitation?

[R3vo 2654]

Hey googlava,

 

is there any chance to make clouds darker once overcast is 1 and lightning is > 0.7 ? In the current version, the clouds are way too bright even when there is a thunderstorm going on. Additionally, the sky has no detail at all, it looks washed out.

 

Ingame: (overcast 1, lightning > 0.9, 12.05 pm)

 

RL (Hopefully not too much PS)

[googlava 57]

The sea doesn't reflect sky color and clouds at all.

 

Bug/known limitation?

Hi Fushko,

there is limitation in the our technology for now. I miss this effect too, so when we will develop this technology a I will ask for this effect.

[googlava 57]

Hey googlava,

 

is there any chance to make clouds darker once overcast is 1 and lightning is > 0.7 ? In the current version, the clouds are way too bright even when there is a thunderstorm going on. Additionally, the sky has no detail at all, it looks washed out.

 

Ingame: (overcast 1, lightning > 0.9, 12.05 pm)

 

RL (Hopefully not too much PS)

Hi R3vo,

 

I understand what you mean. I made the overcast for the general situation, when the clouds cover all the sky. But now I am thinking about this and there is actually a possibility for reach this effect. I have to create a new set for a overcast value very close to 1, which make the clouds and the light very dark. I am going to try it. Thanks for your idea.

[FoxFort 341]

Sorry, I just had to chime in now; I saw those screenshots and downloaded dev immediately:

 

 

versus new:

 

 

The 2nd image reminds me of BF 2142 settings which is good, but Altis/Stratis is not in a new ice age. :D

I do also feel that warmth of sun is missing sometimes, maybe we just needs some time to adjust to new settings, after all we played for what 1+ year with old settings.

 

[Roach_ 52]

-pics-

 

 

And my first impression was: Who turned off the sun? Second thought was: This can't be the same weather condition! But yes, it is. :(

 

So I checked now in dev build and really: The warmth of the sun is completely gone. There is no "warm summer day" mood anymore, it's all cold and gray, even though the weather is supposedly clear at a Mediterranean noon!

 

This needs remediation before thinking about release.

 

To be honest the second picture looks a lot more realistic and convincing, considering the overcast value and how cloudy that scenario is. I live in a Mediterranean climate zone and there isn't always a warm summer day with an overly red tint here. In fact, It's never red. When it's that cloudy, the day does look cold and grey. Mediterranean noons aren't always clear at noon. And answering your question: the sun is probably behind the clouds.

[R3vo 2654]

The 2nd image reminds me of BF 2142 settings which is good, but Altis/Stratis is not in a new ice age. :D

I do also feel that warmth of sun is missing sometimes, maybe we just needs some time to adjust to new settings, after all we played for what 1+ year with old settings.

 

 

Everyone is looking at the colours and I am looking at the trees and wonder if they lost some leaves during the pp process.

 

 

Hi R3vo,

 

I understand what you mean. I made the overcast for the general situation, when the clouds cover all the sky. But now I am thinking about this and there is actually a possibility for reach this effect. I have to create a new set for a overcast value very close to 1, which make the clouds and the light very dark. I am going to try it. Thanks for your idea.

 

You are awesome, sir. If you find the time, share some screenshots ;)

[road runner 4344]

I don't see the sun in the first (Old ) picture either ;)

[fabio_chavez 103]

Hi Fushko,

there is limitation in the our technology for now. I miss this effect too, so when we will develop this technology a I will ask for this effect.

wouldnt it be enough if you could define the envionmental reflection textures (sky_veryclear_lco.paa etc) per sunangle?

that would also add endless possibilitys to the skybox and horizont texture in general when you could set the textures per overcast value AND per sunangle value.

would it be that effortfull to make such engine changes?

and googlava, please explain if there where changes made to obloha.p3d and horizont.p3d in the visual upgrade, since the sky and horizont textures are changed too in dev1.59

[googlava 57]

wouldnt it be enough if you could define the envionmental reflection textures (sky_veryclear_lco.paa etc) per sunangle?

that would also add endless possibilitys to the skybox and horizont texture in general when you could set the textures per overcast value AND per sunangle value.

would it be that effortfull to make such engine changes?

and googlava, please explain if there where changes made to obloha.p3d and horizont.p3d in the visual upgrade, since the sky and horizont textures are changed too in dev1.59

Hi fabio_chavez

 

for now, we can define env. textures by overcast only. When we would enable the option set the env. textures by angle of the Sun it will be help to effect of the dusk, but there are alot of new textures which I have to keep still actual. I see the option in the future, to enable render skybox to the texture used for reflection. 

 

The skybox model was changed for the better gradient around the sun. Textures for the sky is white and color of the sky is defined by config only.

[fabio_chavez 103]

 

 

Hi fabio_chavez

 

for now, we can define env. textures by overcast only. When we would enable the option set the env. textures by angle of the Sun it will be help to effect of the dusk, but there are alot of new textures which I have to keep still actual. I see the option in the future, to enable render skybox to the texture used for reflection. 

 

 

 i understand it would require a bunch of new env textures to be made! looking forward to what might come in the future :)
 

 

 

The skybox model was changed for the better gradient around the sun. Textures for the sky is white and color of the sky is defined by config only.

 

im trying to get my head around it right now!
besides, this also means that in order to use old configs and sky textures, one would have to use the old obloha.p3d and horizont.p3d?
anyway i assume you will elaborate on those changes in a sitrep at one point in the future?



 

[CaptainObvious 95]

There will be a version with more darker shadows and pronounced self shading.

 

Great, currently it's not very convincing to see for example a lot of bushes in bright sunlight because of the lack of shadow intensity.

But my main concern is the lack of golden hour in the evening and morning, I have to rely on Photoshop to make the morning photos really look warm and "golden", as they are now blueish and cold.

But nevertheless, super job you're doing, can't wait to see what you can do with the tweaks! :ok:

[St. Jimmy 272]

BIS now that you're doing this visual improvement could we finally get an option to toggle the vignette effect off? I know there's a keyboard shortcut but I don't want to press it every time mission changes.

 

 

[CaptainObvious 95]

BIS now that you're doing this visual improvement could we finally get an option to toggle the vignette effect off? I know there's a keyboard shortcut but I don't want to press it every time mission changes.

 

Do you really notice the vignette ingame in a situation like that? For me those pics are almost pitch black all around, I can see only the horizon and the two trees  :huh:

[googlava 57]

 

 

 

 i understand it would require a bunch of new env textures to be made! looking forward to what might come in the future :)

 

im trying to get my head around it right now!

besides, this also means that in order to use old configs and sky textures, one would have to use the old obloha.p3d and horizont.p3d?

anyway i assume you will elaborate on those changes in a sitrep at one point in the future?

 

 

Yes for an old light config you need all old textures and the model of the sky.

I will make the tutorial about the what is new in the lighting, haze, and water sea. I hope it will be helpful for you. But before I would like finish the current lighting with your feedback. 

Thank you for asking about  this interesting parts of our game.