Removal of the 2D editor - why - options are good, workflow slowdown for modders

[cosmic10r 2331]

edit = I probably shouldnt be like that ... sigh...

 

are you having a specific problem importing your missions? will the import function not work? 

[R3vo 2654]

why do they have to take it away, cant they just leave it in place, doesn't need any,more updating.

 

Check out the last update, there was a fixed applied to the 2d editor. That means in the future, it still needs updateing since some parts of it will eventually be broken.

 

 

On a side note, it would be great if people who post here would actually go through the tutorials and work with 3den a little bit more before complaining, I see alot of things reported here which are clearly explained in the turtorials, like empty vehicles.

[dnl04 76]

On a side note, it would be great if people who post here would actually go through the tutorials and work with 3den a little bit more before complaining, I see alot of things reported here which are clearly explained in the turtorials, like empty vehicles.

Eden isn't bad at all, it's actually a wonderful, improved editor that adds a lot of interesting functions and fastens the making of certain scenarios but, as I said before, it can't replace the classic 2D editor because whenever you just need to throw some units in a terrain to test something, the 2D editor is unbeatable.

Even though I'm using both 2D and 3D editor I don't understand why BI should delete the first one that's maybe more user friendly to some mission makers in order to achieve a particular task.

That's why I think they should, at least, keep it available to all those who feel more comfortable with it.

The two editors have their respective pros and cons but they're both necessary in ArmA.

[tortuosit 486]

it can't replace the classic 2D editor because whenever you just need to throw some units in a terrain to test something, the 2D editor is unbeatable.

Did you measure map/mission startup times already? I haven't, but I feel there is not much difference between both. And since you can have it start with 2D map mode, there should be no real problem...?

[Guest]

Check out the last update, there was a fixed applied to the 2d editor. That means in the future, it still needs updateing since some parts of it will eventually be broken.

 

 

On a side note, it would be great if people who post here would actually go through the tutorials and work with 3den a little bit more before complaining, I see alot of things reported here which are clearly explained in the turtorials, like empty vehicles.

 

"That means in the future, it still needs updateing since some parts of it will eventually be broken"

 

Is that official or speculation?

 

 

"On a side note, it would be great if people who post here would actually go through the tutorials and work with 3den a little bit more before complaining, I see alot of things reported here which are clearly explained in the turtorials, like empty vehicles."

 

 

Here is what I posted:

 

"Empty vehicles are now accessed in the 3d editor by accessing the normal 'side' vehicles and then setting them to be empty - I sure hope they then fixed the issue with pre-set sided vehicles that are empty showing as enemy objects to opposing forces, as before this would cause enemy units to fire on those empty side-set vehicles. I actually liked just putting down purely empty vehicles, and assigning units to them if I wanted non-empty vehicles, this both avoided the vehicle ever becoming considered an enemy when empty and encouraged putting unique units in the vehicles as well."

 

 

That is not a "complaint", that is questioning the possibility of a previous bug having bigger impacts if it had not yet been addressed.

We are allowed to post both questions *and* complaints about anything in game without having to first go through tutorials and spend x amount of time becoming well versed in specific areas in the game content thank you. And we are also allowed to be wrong about something posted about as well. Isn't that part of what the forums here are for, so people can post questions so that others that know the answer can respond and help out - or maybe everyone should just be required to figure it all out themselves and restrict any questions on the forums to only questions that cannot be answered by one discovering the issue themselves either in game or in web searching - therefore only questions allowed are questions that simply cannot be answered period.

[dnl04 76]

Did you measure map/mission startup times already? I haven't, but I feel there is not much difference between both. And since you can have it start with 2D map mode, there should be no real problem...?

Did you measure map/mission startup times already? I haven't, but I feel there is not much difference between both. And since you can have it start with 2D map mode, there should be no real problem...?

Yes, I've measured the startup times of the 3D editor and witnessed that it's just a bit slower than the other one, but that's not the main issue.

The old editor is more simple, quick and clear when it comes to make simple test missions and its classic layout makes it easier to manage for some people.

[R3vo 2654]

To make everyone happy, why not simply remove the 2D editor and put it in the Workshop and Arma 3 tool samples, so people who still want to use it can mod it into their game again, just like with the old fatigue?

[tortuosit 486]

The old editor is more simple, quick and clear when it comes to make simple test missions and its classic layout makes it easier to manage for some people.

Even if you start it up in 2D map view always? You do not even realize then, that it also is a 3D editor.

So you mean the Eden UI is not as easy to manage?

I ask because I am thinking you have not recognized that you can always have it start in 2D view.

[dnl04 76]

Even if you start it up in 2D map view always? You do not even realize then, that it also is a 3D editor.

So you mean the Eden UI is not as easy to manage?

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Doing things such as changing units' "attributes", mission's Intel and similar stuff is way faster in the 2D editor.

Even though I know how to start Eden in 2D, it's not capable of giving me the same compact, classic, nostalgic, clear, solid feeling of its predecessor...but I'm not saying that BI should change the 3D editor though, because it's extremely good right now.

I just think that BI made an exceptional brand new tool... But I consider it as a welcomed addiction, not as a replacement.

[chortles 263]

Unfortunately, as per the SITREP the stated motivation for removal is "because we'd want to focus on one tool and not support two full code-bases"... emphasis on that last part.

[=242= CPT. Helios 18]

why do they have to take it away, cant they just leave it in place, doesn't need any,more updating. have a think about all the poor bastards like myself who have spent hundreds of hours on custom missions to now be forced to start all over again. I really couldn't care for this new editor. I have the missions I want but soon they will be useless.. please, please if possible make the mission SQM files Compatible. how would you guys at BIS like it if I just came a long after hundreds of hours work and just deleted it on you... don't think you'd be too happy..please just keep it available to those who prefer it and have poured blood and stressful sweat into their missions.. I mean im happy to slowly try the 3D out when I feel. but don't take away something that is not broken and that so many still use and enjoy... after all we are the ONES who keep you in a job.. buying your forever annoyingly changing GAME... and ps if I have mentioned something that has been before or in the wrong topic area I don't give a shit,, don't bother with your replies. =  0  shits given...  

None of what you've said here is true. You're overreacting and are being really inflammatory and derisive for no real reason. No one is deleting your shit, and if you don't want to be replied to, then don't bother shit posting to people. Please remember that BIS are actual human beings, and not robots who you can complain at as if they're not real.

The least you could do is actually look at how the thing works before you go writing nonsense like this.

[raynor_d 339]

Eden is awesome, and a beautiful tool for building missions. However when developing an addon, you have no choice but to restart the entire game every time you want to test. So having the 2d editor available for quickly loading up test scenarios is a big time saver. Leaving the 2d editor hidden but available would be very valuable to me, even if it has extremely limited functionality.

[Behnzon 51]

My only issue on this, is that no more object id's, i'm modding an altis server, and it's made my server alot better clearing stuff and replacing it .... and now it's all going to have to go ... Or stay how it is now ....

[spyderblack723 407]

seriously ? how fast do you want the 3d editor to reload? I could see your point if it was taking 3 -4 minutes, but literally it takes what? 20-40 seconds to reopen? and that's a show stopper for some of you?

 

does 30-40 seconds have all that much of an impact on your scripting stuff? Sounds more like me at first, it's a change in the way things were done, and nobody likes change, once their in a routine.

If you're on a low spec machine, yes the 3D editor kind of blows chunks, so is it worth upgrading to Apex and getting Tanhoa?

I hated the 3D editor at first, but now it's good fun, you can see things in perspective now, in the real world (figure of speech)

 

Well, yes. 30-40 seconds is massive considering you may be loading/exiting very frequently. Sometimes, when I need to test minor changes, I can exit a mission over a hundred times in a single scripting session. Waiting for the mission to load and exit tends to take more time than testing the script itself. Tack this on with increased mission load times due to other scripts/addons and it becomes a valid point of concern.

 

 

With that being said, I do understand why they are moving to a single editor. It's much easier to maintain and will allow them to focus all resources on improving the 3D editor instead of maintaining the old one. Right now the extra load times is a nuisance, but I would be very surprised if this is not reduced going forward.

[Sanchez Milsim 70]

Please dont remove 2d editor. Is one of constant features on all arma or opf games during his story. Eden dont do nothing special that i can do by scripts or by mods like xcam. Eden is focused for amateur editors and its better for they. I think the way its to implement eden features on 2d editor no remove 2d editor. Please think in large amount of years, in my case ten years editing on same platform and now you are going to remove it.

Thanks

[chortles 263]

I think the way its to implement eden features on 2d editor

From all indications I've seen they never planned to do this... a lot easier just to start from scratch (Eden) and remove the old tool than try to 'fix' the old tool.

[Sanchez Milsim 70]

From all indications I've seen they never planned to do this... a lot easier just to start from scratch (Eden) and remove the old tool than try to 'fix' the old tool.

I think there isnt nothing to fix, all new features are to add but 2d now its perfect.

[tortuosit 486]

However when developing an addon, you have no choice but to restart the entire game every time you want to test. So having the 2d editor available for quickly loading up test scenarios is a big time saver. Leaving the 2d editor hidden but available would be very valuable to me, even if it has extremely limited functionality.

 

Hmmm, I do not see this. I'm coming from Eden, started the preview, added a quick "hint 'blah';" to a mods file, restarted the preview mission, the hint appeared.

[raynor_d 339]

Hmmm, I do not see this. I'm coming from Eden, started the preview, added a quick "hint 'blah';" to a mods file, restarted the preview mission, the hint appeared.

 

I'm not sure how you're building your pbos, but using the addon builder in the Arma 3 tools, if I try to update a mod pbo while the game is running it, the build will fail, even with -filePatching. If there is a development setup that I missed in which you're able to rebuild pbos, including configs, without restarting the game, that would definitely change the editor situation in my view.

[Flash-Ranger 195]

I agree. Eden is nice but very slow.

[M4na 11]

There should be an option to startup in 2D view for scripters without preloading 3d mode.

[zapat 56]

We're still evaluating what to do with the 2D editor. We'd prefer to offer only one tool which is officially supported, but I understand that many advanced users like you would want to retain access to the 2D editor. One of the options is to have it still available from the main menu, but only using some keyboard shortcut (similar to hove the old 3D editor prototype was accessed). A mod could even map it back to a button. What do you think about such approach?

 

So now after Tanoa hit beta and the 2d editor got removed, what is the official word on keeping the 2D/fast editor as a hidden/power feature?

[Greenfist 1863]

So now after Tanoa hit beta and the 2d editor got removed, what is the official word on keeping the 2D/fast editor as a hidden/power feature?

It is a hidden feature currently; press ctrl+o in the map selections screen.

I assume it'll stay that way, unless it completely breaks one day.

[zapat 56]

Thanks man, I missed this info somehow. 

[whatsupdoc_1_27 20]

If they are going to just use 3d editor they best ADD a PLACEMENT TOOL for walls and such or a better way so walls and other objects can LOCKS to each other. It would make life easier whenever a person builds a base.