Jump to content
sargken

1.54 Fatigue is too Unrealistic

Fatigue System  

152 members have voted

  1. 1. Which setup do you think arma 3 use

    • The Old/Legecy version
      109
    • The New 1.54 Nexus version
      43


Recommended Posts

I actually have to say that I like the system. I feel like there are some things that need to be changed, but here are my reasons from my testing.

- Sprinting punishes the player and should be carefully planned or used in times of emergency

- Jogging for too long in terrain that is too rough punishes the player, while jogging on flat land or roads provides for is less punishing than the old system.

- One man army loadouts are no longer possible

- The bar is nice, and makes things easier to observe

 

Things I don't like

- I feel like the weight system is a bit too restricting and doesn't provide for good gameplay for one man missions (e.g. without a team, be it AI or player)

- I feel like passive resting should be a bit more pronounced in order to combat the new sway

- I feel like holding your breath should steady your aim faster

- I feel like their needs to be specific LMG/MMG holding animations (actual hipfire)

- I feel like deployed weapons with a bipod should completely negate recoil.

- I feel like increased fatigue should reduce the ability to control recoil, not increase sway (although, I'm sure that would be harder to do)

 

I'll do some more testing, but I feel like this system is overall better than the previous one, which I felt was too punishing for everything.

 

In terms of the criticism, I'm noticing on here a distinct lack of what exactly you don't like. I understand that it's not a perfect system, and I'm well aware that there are probably better systems out there. However, I do like this one for arma, because it's different from COD's or BF's sprint system and provides a more enjoyable experience (imo) than the previous system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Haven't tested extensively but did a few hill "sprints" and upon reaching top, held breath and popped 200m targets in 2 shots -not all that hard :rolleyes:

 

 That said, not being hard and being fun are not mutually exclusive. The sway is probably not the most realistic way to keep overprecision down but im not really sure what would actually work better. Perhaps a tougher FOV with more caustics like a CQB shooter aka Insurgency..?? Dunno but it is tough challenge no doubt to find a weakness that doesnt feed moaning -if thats indeed possible.

 

 What I dont understand about the anti-stamina crowd is what do they propose as an alternative besides Difficulty settings (which seems to make the most sense)? Do they really just want to be able to load up anything, sprint anywhere without limit?

 

 Also to the above, YOU are not the only customer nor fanbase -there are older ones...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm gob smacked at your brown nose attitude.

I'm gob smacked by your manners.

You, with your 2 day old account, should know you won't be making many friends around here like that.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many people complaining on this thread bothered to try it out on the Dev branch before jumping on this bandwagon?

 

The new Stamina feature has been available to test for months now. And there are plenty of YouTube videos show the mechanics of how it works. The Stamina changes aren't exactly a surprise. The sudden reaction to it here is a bit laughable.

Notice how the dev branch testers gave it the thumbs up? If you want to voice your opinion on how shite a new feature is, then please do it as constructively as you can. Say what you like and do not like about it, while avoiding phrases like "it blows".

 

There's a lot of hyperbolic moaning in this thread. So, you don't like the new system? Cool. Well, how about you respond properly via here or feedback tracker, rather than "OMG it blows, fu anyone who likes it" attitude that screams from a lot of posts here. In time tweaks will come in future patches and Mods will change it for those who don't like it. 

 

(IMHO, i still think it needs much tweaking, but, overall, I think the new system is better than the old one.)

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many people complaining on this thread bothered to try it out on the Dev branch before jumping on this bandwagon?

 

The new Stamina feature has been available to test for months now. And there are plenty of YouTube videos show the mechanics of how it works. The Stamina changes aren't exactly a surprise. The sudden reaction to it here is a bit laughable.

Notice how the dev branch testers gave it the thumbs up? If you want to voice your opinion on how shite a new feature is, then please do it as constructively as you can. Say what you like and do not like about it, while avoiding phrases like "it blows".

 

There's a lot of hyperbolic moaning in this thread. So, you don't like the new system? Cool. Well, how about you respond properly via here or feedback tracker, rather than "OMG it blows, fu anyone who likes it" attitude that screams from a lot of posts here. In time tweaks will come in future patches and Mods will change it for those who don't like it. 

 

(IMHO, i still think it needs much tweaking, but, overall, I think the new system is better than the old one.)

The reaction here is the same like in the Dev branch thread, A large number uof us did not like it back then Iand I did plead to leave the system as it is weeks ago. Why should my opinion change now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While its early days I'm actually pretty happy with a lot of the new system though it does have a lot of issues. We finally have a system that forces people to limit the amount of kit they carry and to have to choose what equipment they need for their role. Even playing more casual game types like KOTH, I see a lot more people using assault rifles and limiting their kit, I see a lot less ghillied snipers and I see almost no-one hoofing around with MGs and launchers.

 

I will do some proper tests later and post up some more accurate data but as a quick test I went into the editor and measured the distance that you can sprint with my normal mission rifleman loadout (MX, 6 mags, 4 nades, a plate carrier and helmet for PPE, a backpack with a spare 200 round 6.5mm box and some medkits and smokes, all of which fills about 35% of the loadout bar in the inventory).

 

The stamina bar was empty at about 165m and my character kept up at 18kph the whole way, which is roughly a 5:21 minute mile pace. Once the stamina bar was empty my character kept at a consistent 14kph, which is a 6:53 mile pace and is a very fast jogging pace for that amount of kit. He covered 100m in roughly 20 seconds, which is only 10.42 seconds slower than Usain Bolt's world record 9.58 second 100m sprint. That's a good effort, especially in boots and holding your weapon in the low ready the whole way, and it lets you cover a lot of ground at a fast pace. If people think that's an over exagerated system then I'd be keen to see some real life run times in similar kit that can better it.

 

The two things I would fault the system on are the sway and the loss of longer term fatigue. With an empty stamina bar my character can't keep his aim on a man sized target at 50m which does seem pretty over the top and the sway increase when you max out the hold-breath button is just plain overdone. I also think its a bad move to take away longer term fatigue when it could easily have been kept and simply ran down the size of the stamina bar over time.

 

I'm against making it easy to turn off because if you make every new feature added to the game optional people will simply turn off every new addition. These kinds of limits on encumberance are long overdue and coupled with the new damage model the benefits to gameplay are obvious. It would be a real shame to see it all thrown away by custom server settings designed to let people continue ramboing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm gob smacked at your brown nose attitude.  The stamina system blows plain to see.  Your right in that people can vote with their feet but mods will negate this.  Your telling me a trained soldier wouldn't be able to run a few feet & take aim effectively? BS of course they would.  Most are happy to go with what BI has created with arma (I love the game & haven't played anything else in quite a while) but this just seems stupid.  This level of realism ruins the game, I would imagine that 99% of players (me included) want to stick to the realism vibe thats what makes the title stand out among all the other tired shooters but what next?! waiting for a virtual UN security council to vote on whether we should be allowed to start a mission? or how about random drug tests for players to ensure they are capable of operating firearms? Cmon realism yes but also needs to be enjoyable.

If you carry too much shit, put it in a truck. Don't lug a toolbox and equipment equal to 30 bowling balls around with you. Come back to an outpost or mobile vehicle where you can resupply. Call in ammo, get some friends and have them help carry supplies if you need them. It's not the final version. It might take them five times to get something right.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is better, no doubts.

Now please can you (BIS) remove from game the options that allow to disable fatigue and stamina?

In order to make the game equal for everybody.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While its early days I'm actually pretty happy with a lot of the new system though it does have a lot of issues. We finally have a system that forces people to limit the amount of kit they carry and to have to choose what equipment they need for their role. Even playing more casual game types like KOTH, I see a lot more people using assault rifles and limiting their kit, I see a lot less ghillied snipers and I see almost no-one hoofing around with MGs and launchers.

 

The problem with forcing people to limit their loadout, is that there is over 2 million copies of the game sold, and only a small percentage play the game as realism units. There were many game owner that were very happy with the old system, and are now unhappy. These people already paid for the game, and shouldn't have their experience ruined by such radical changes to the core mechanics of the game.

 

I will do some proper tests later and post up some more accurate data but as a quick test I went into the editor and measured the distance that you can sprint with my normal mission rifleman loadout (MX, 6 mags, 4 nades, a plate carrier and helmet for PPE, a backpack with a spare 200 round 6.5mm box and some medkits and smokes, all of which fills about 35% of the loadout bar in the inventory).

 

The stamina bar was empty at about 165m and my character kept up at 18kph the whole way, which is roughly a 5:21 minute mile pace. Once the stamina bar was empty my character kept at a consistent 14kph, which is a 6:53 mile pace and is a very fast jogging pace for that amount of kit. He covered 100m in roughly 20 seconds, which is only 10.42 seconds slower than Usain Bolt's world record 9.58 second 100m sprint. That's a good effort, especially in boots and holding your weapon in the low ready the whole way, and it lets you cover a lot of ground at a fast pace. If people think that's an over exagerated system then I'd be keen to see some real life run times in similar kit that can better it.

 

The two things I would fault the system on are the sway and the loss of longer term fatigue. With an empty stamina bar my character can't keep his aim on a man sized target at 50m which does seem pretty over the top and the sway increase when you max out the hold-breath button is just plain overdone. I also think its a bad move to take away longer term fatigue when it could easily have been kept and simply ran down the size of the stamina bar over time.

 

I'm against making it easy to turn off because if you make every new feature added to the game optional people will simply turn off every new addition. These kinds of limits on encumberance are long overdue and coupled with the new damage model the benefits to gameplay are obvious. It would be a real shame to see it all thrown away by custom server settings designed to let people continue ramboing.

 

I think you should reread your first sentence in the above paragraph. If people are turning of the new "features", then maybe these features should have never been implemented.

 

People shouldn't have to fix their game after an update with mods, if  only a percentage of the overall community wants ultra realism, then make the features an option in the game settings.

 

 

My comments are in red.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a bit torn over the new fatigue system. I myself am currently a US Army Infantryman, and have been for 12 years now. I may not be in the same shape I was when I was 18, but I am still in damn good shape. Mission requirements will always determine load-out, but a fighting load is roughly around 70 lbs for the average rifleman (more, of course, for grenadiers and automatic riflemen) if every single item is taken into account. With my body armor + weapon + misc kit, I can jog for a few kilometers(though it certainly is not comfortable). I can sprint for about 100m in flat, open terrain, but after this I would begin to slow pretty quickly. This being said....

 

The maps are supposed to be in Greece at a pretty low sea level. This isn't the Hindu Kush. My avatar (even with a light load) moves like an 80 year old woman who has emphysema. HOWEVER- Prior to this fatigue system, me and my buddies used to joke by saying things like "Man, I would kill to be able to have this guy's stamina" as the avatar sprints over his second hill top with an AT launcher and full kit. This does not mean that I like the new system though. Weapon sway, as many have already identified, is entirely too much too quick. I cannot think of a time where, after much exertion, I said to myself "Damn, I can't seem to keep my weapon steady". Unless I was freezing my ass off in icy rain of course. The new system is overly punishing, and causes negatives that simply are not there in real life. If realism was what they were going for, they missed the mark. Some sort of stamina system does need to be there (I kind of liked the progressive slow-down of the old system), but this new one defies reality. In fact, I'm not sure who this stamina system is supposed to appease, casuals or realism fans...

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weapon sway, as many have already identified, is entirely too much too quick. I cannot think of a time where, after much exertion, I said to myself "Damn, I can't seem to keep my weapon steady". Unless I was freezing my ass off in icy rain of course. The new system is overly punishing, and causes negatives that simply are not there in real life. If realism was what they were going for, they missed the mark. Some sort of stamina system does need to be there (I kind of liked the progressive slow-down of the old system), but this new one defies reality.

 

Totally agree. The weapon sway has always seemed to be both too strong and too variable in direction in A3 and the new changes are definitely over the top. While heavy breathing will definitely affect your aim, the sway up and down is far faster than the character is breathing and has a lot more lateral movement than I'd expect from breathing alone unless your arms were tired as well. I think reducing this on its own would bring a lot more people around to the new way. Making the sway so extreme when fatigued just seems like a way to give the player an incentive to manage stamina when at the moment there aren't really many other downsides to sprinting everywhere.

 

Playing with the new system some more, I think its a case of one step forward and one step back. The gear limitations are great and do a lot to limit players to a set role and encourage teamwork and more close range fighting, but the sway makes combat too chance based and is annoying while the lack of a progressive stamina drain means there isn't really much reason not to sprint everywhere when you have the stamina to do so. This whole set of mechanics just needs more development and I think the answer is going to involve fudging the 1.54 system with the 1.52 system and trying to find a middle ground.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally like the new fatigue system..it will slow people down and make them adapt and not play like this is COD or Battlefield...adjust your loadout and don't carry the entire ammobox with you..play the role you picked and work as a team.

 

Diesel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is better, no doubts.

Now please can you (BIS) remove from game the options that allow to disable fatigue and stamina?

In order to make the game equal for everybody.

Or even better.

Make it detected by battleye, if someone try join MP with it disabled it will be a goodbye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You goofed up on the stamina update. 

 

Remember, this is still a VIDEO GAME. No one wants to get dropped into the AO only to take 4-5X as long to move to another location. Anytime stamina results in players choosing to camp out where they're at because they can't move to another location in a realistic time period means you goofed. 

 

  • If I'm a sniper and I literally crawl 10 yards I cant use my binoculars because they sway so much for 10-15 seconds. 
  • If I hold a launcher and regular gun I can sprint a little bit but if I carry an MG, I can't move even 1 foot faster than a previous crawl speed.
  • If I want to go solo and destroy tanks, which sit in the back and ping people who can't see them 1200M+ away, I can't carry a launcher and ever expect to get to them without taking the day off in hopes of getting to them at a crawl rate. Didn't consider how the game is played in other areas. Maps of multiplayer KOTH with tanks is now so unbalanced giving the tank lamers even more leverage. 

 

And to be honest, this was a NON ISSUE in the community and you went and "enhanced" something that wasn't requested, thought to improve game play or could be exploited.

 

I'm out until a fix is made.

 

- A paying customer

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have voted for the new one, but I don't like none of them, Arma 3 have a lack of animations to represent the stamina, I liked the way it was in arma 2 almost everything it had a feeling of simulation that arma 3 have in a minor way in general...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really tired of all changes for the worst!! The game is one step forward and two steps back.. I really hope Squad can give us the feeling that Arma 3 never did , at least for my team .
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Fatigue system is just plain SHIT.............................

 

I had 9 mags of Cyrus ammo, Cyrus rifle with scope, .45 hand gun and 3 mags of .45 ammo, standard granade and med kit.

 

I moved from the top floor of a building to the groung floor while crouched ( 2 story building ) My guy was huffing and puffing like he just ran a marathon.

 

Can't cross the street without getting huge fatigue.

 

Are we supposed to believe that a trained soldier can't cross a street or go down a set of stairs whithout being rendered useless. ( I know it's just a game buy they have Fked it with this )

 

Fix it Fix it Fix it.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Fatigue system is just plain SHIT.............................

Very constructive criticism. I'm glad to know that we can keep a civil tone.​

 

I had 9 mags of Cyrus ammo, Cyrus rifle with scope, .45 hand gun and 3 mags of .45 ammo, standard granade and med kit.

I doubt that most missions would require so much main weapon ammo. Keep a PDW handy, and have around 5 mags for it. Save the Cyrus ammo for the necessary moments.​

 

I moved from the top floor of a building to the groung floor while crouched ( 2 story building ) My guy was huffing and puffing like he just ran a marathon.

I did the exact same thing. Plus I had on a heavy plate carrier and helmet. My guy was still able to jog. Unless you were sprinting, in which I can only say it's not a marathon.​

 

Can't cross the street without getting huge fatigue.

Sprinting or jogging? The former I can understand. I tested this system extensively on RC, if you rely on jogging, you'll be fine.​

 

Are we supposed to believe that a trained soldier can't cross a street or go down a set of stairs whithout being rendered useless. ( I know it's just a game buy they have Fked it with this )

Sprinting, probably not. Having trained for and passed the US marines physical fitness test, I can tell you that I still can't sprint very far, and slopes and stairs make it worse. However, I can jog forever.​

 

Fix it Fix it Fix it.

I realize that you feel personally hurt by this update, but I seriously doubt that you truly understand this fatigue system.​

 

As for the other dissenting opinions, I don't speak for BI; however, I can tell you that I like this system more than the last one. Why? because it makes you think. You have to think about your mission and what you need. You can't just be a one man army and I like that. Yes, the fatigue system CAN be disabled by script (not mod) and BI are (if you'd look at the dev-branch changelog) making sure that works properly in the future. I'm not saying that the system is perfect, but if you take a moment to think, you'll be fine. I'm not trying to fanboy here either. It won't take 4x longer to get somewhere just because you have to jog. It might take 1.5 times as long, but, unless you're so loaded that you can't run, you'll be able to keep up with everyone else. There is an advantage to having a lighter load. Yes, the sway sucks. I admit that. But again, if you keep your sprinting down to when you absolutely have to, it will not be a problem.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People forget that arma 3 isn't real life military simulator and the year isn't even 2015. It's fricking 2035! Where is your "realism" now? It is FUTURISTIC game, not realistic. And it is not some virtual reality simulator here. It is a frickin game and it should be enjoyable. If people won't enjoy it, your uber realism fails and this patch proved it. People do not enjoy not being able to carry heavy guns. Why then they are in a game? You say dump gear in a car? Well you have to REACH that car first, and how are you gonna do it slow walking with broken legs for 5 km because your machinegun is too heavy for you to sprint.

 

If people want realism, go outside and play realism, join the army, go shoot people in middle east. Arma 3 is about the game, which is realistic compared to other games and fun and playable at the same time. And people forget this. This new system should at least be possible to turn off and brought back to legacy system (if one wishes so).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New fatigue is awful. And why, why BIS are you wasting so much time on an aspect most people did not want addressed (at current, if at , all).  You are taking paying customers and F'ing up their experience of what they bought. Why not invest all the time and resources on this dump fatigue notion and put it to AI.  How about just fixing the "cant break out of under fire mode" when given the all clear.  How about AI and buildings (more than one member of your unit) working within buildings together.  Why waste time on this?  And now have to rewaste time fixing it (reversing it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not invest all the time and resources on this dump fatigue notion and put it to AI.  How about just fixing the "cant break out of under fire mode" when given the all clear.  How about AI and buildings (more than one member of your unit) working within buildings together.  Why waste time on this?  And now have to rewaste time fixing it (reversing it).

The creator of the A.I, which was superb for it's time, has left the team years ago. Noone dares to touch it since then. A.I. is unchanged since Armed Assault. The only changes in all the time was to take away AI features. (remember, in A2 they would react to you based on player rank and you could ask them things and A.I. made use of support unit calls by it's own initiative.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The creator of the AI, whichs was superb for its time, has left the team yeas ago. Noone dares to touch it since then. AI is unchanged since Armed Assault, the only change in all the time was to take away AI features. (remeber, in A2 they would react to you based on player rank and you could ask them things)

Totally correct.

But who cares about AI when you have the awesome Life

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the other dissenting opinions, I don't speak for BI; however, I can tell you that I like this system more than the last one. Why? because it makes you think. You have to think about your mission and what you need. You can't just be a one man army and I like that. Yes, the fatigue system CAN be disabled by script (not mod) and BI are (if you'd look at the dev-branch changelog) making sure that works properly in the future. I'm not saying that the system is perfect, but if you take a moment to think, you'll be fine. I'm not trying to fanboy here either. It won't take 4x longer to get somewhere just because you have to jog. It might take 1.5 times as long, but, unless you're so loaded that you can't run, you'll be able to keep up with everyone else. There is an advantage to having a lighter load. Yes, the sway sucks. I admit that. But again, if you keep your sprinting down to when you absolutely have to, it will not be a problem.

Thank you mate, pretty much one of the only acceptable replies to this piece of shit thread, just reading through the replies makes me angry. The amount of nonconstructive whine posts lets the community look like it's full of whiney little kids, god damn! As you said, we soldiers can jog forever, sprinting is a whole different issue. Uphill/Stairs are a bitch. Current game mechanic is fine, an improvement compared to the last version game play wise.

 

I like the new feature. We are still playing a game here, it's supposed to be fun and video game fun =/= real life. Game mechanics don't work like this: "take real life and translate it into game code". You can be inspired by real life but 1:1 translations don't work too often. BIS is backward-compatible, if people want the old stuff, they can use it. But all this nonconstructive criticism is just not right for a mature video game forum.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This community is full of whiny little kids, god damn!

 

 

Saying this kind of thing you seems like a troll and ruin you own post.

 

Just comment.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×