1.54 Fatigue is too Unrealistic

[imager6 40]

I am a member of a group of 8 to 10 people who play missions at least 1 or 2 times a week. We were suppose to play last night, but due to the new stamina limits we were unable to play as we like. I realize there are many thoughts on this and many play styles, so everyone will never be happy. Why can there not be a function of the game where it would be easy to set the stamina effect you want. I believe this would be a very easy solution.

[imager6 40]

I am a member of a group of 8 to 10 people who play missions at least 1 or 2 times a week. We were suppose to play last night, but due to the new stamina limits we were unable to play as we like. I realize there are many thoughts on this and many play styles, so everyone will never be happy. Why can there not be a function of the game where it would be easy to set the stamina effect you want. I believe this would be a very easy solution.

[Kryptongame 14]

The system is brutal now is brutal. It's COMPLETELY arcadish and is obviously trying to cater to the casual audience. It goes against everything that arma is about thats for sure. How the hell is it realistic to be able to run forever, even worse it doesn't take your stance into account at all now really. If your crouched fatigue decreases the same amount as standing up sprinting. Having your weapon raised all the time doesn't hurt fatigue at all. They tried to fix something that was not broken and they have botched it completely.

 

Just another thing I need to make a script for to achieve similar functionality to the old system because BIS has obviously chosen which side of the fence they want to be on to empty as many wallets as possible.

I mean the sway from fatigue now is about 3x too penalizing and large to me

[maquez 141]

dear BI developers

 

Could we please have a game configuration option to disable this ridiculous fatigue and weapon sway !

 

I do gaming for fun and not to get nerved up by something stupid like this.

 

thanks in advance !

 

Other question, has anyone already found out how to disable this crap completely script wise?

 

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=26762

 

please vote up!

[St. Jimmy 272]

Well I can quote myself from the dev-branch:

 

Things that were wrong in the fatigue system:
    - It was too short term. Lowering the stamina gain and recovery would've been better. ACE and other mods made at least that gain part. The vanilla was bit too harsh and I don't know any hardcore player that didn't think like that.
    - Unarmed and binocular running was less fatigueing. Actually that was the rate fatigue gain rate for normal armed movement I would've liked to see.
    - You couldn't load up yourself full because there wasn't anything negative like forced walking to balance it.
    - AI had some problems because they like to move gun up and do constant movements.

    Stamina fixed two of those issues. Two other things it didn't fix because it only removed the animation slowdown feature and feature removing isn't improvement or fix. BRING THE ANIMATION SLOWDOWN IN THE STAMINA. Otherwise BIS you failed with the stamina. There's only one week I believe before Nexus update is released and that's a freaking short time to get feedback for the animation slowdown and overall stamina. It took long time to make the fatigue like it is currently.

    If you're going to release Nexus update this month I'd say you need to postpone the stamina to the next unless you're very fast with the animation slowdown feature. Or postpone the whole update. Or you can make yourself look stupid and bring half assed feature over a working one... Too bad it looks like that right now but it's still not too late.

    There's no option for bringing stamina without animation slowdown as it was in fatigue. I think I don't need to say what kind of a turning point that patch will remembered if you do that.

 

It wouldn't had required much to make stamina better and improved fatigue trhough the fixes but BIS ignored the animation slowdown and now it's worse than the fatigue.

 

Weapon sway is another thing.I haven't tested how it now feels but it has been very weird in the recent dev-branches when i can have less sway on crouched than on prone and there's nothing to explain why because I had even less stamina when I was crouched. The hold breath was nerfed which was the thing that you used in the old system to fight against the sway. I've never liked that the sway is still more horizontal than vertical, when it should be the very opposite.

[Rich_R 1087]

Haven't seen it posted yet.....

 

Just type the following in the players init line

this enableStamina false;

No Stamina system :)

[five_seven5-7 56]

every change-log about stamina was implemented or it was a primitive stamina version? Dev-branch stamina now feels better than the earlier stages of the new one.

[sargken 286]

Do they have an updated version on the dev branch? Is that what you are saying. Or referring to the update Nexus.

[tacticalsheltie 13]

My problem with weapon sway is that it's far too smooth. In real life when aiming a weapon you don't move in a near perfectly smooth "figure 8" motion, what I call CoD sway. A real human moves in relatively fast and short, jittery like movements.

[sargken 286]

Well im more or less fine with the weapon sway aspect. What i don't understand is how you can just go from sprinting to just walking fast. Before it was a Decrease of speed over time which I think better represents fatigue over time.

[five_seven5-7 56]

Do they have an updated version on the dev branch? Is that what you are saying. Or referring to the update Nexus.

 

There is a lot more tweaks after 10-Nov.

 

 

Posted 10 November 2015 - 19:09

 

RC testing for update 1.54 (Nexus Update) has started concluded.

[bigshot 64]

Haven't seen it posted yet.....

 

Just type the following in the players init line

this enableStamina false;

No Stamina system :)

 

nope...still forces you to slow walk when your inventory is full. No running, sprinting or jogging. This also needs a way to be disabled please.

 

There are lots of missions out here with heavy tank use and taking 1 rocket just breaks missions like this. We need backward compatibility here, BIS...I mean for crying out loud this game has been a retail release (not alpha any longer) for what 2 or 3 years now? New things added need to be optional only...you can't just keep making major gameplay mechanical changes like this 2 years after retail release and not be called sadistic, sorry....too many bad decisions for too long here.

[stburr91 1002]

nope...still forces you to slow walk when your inventory is full. No running, sprinting or jogging. This also needs a way to be disabled please.

 

There are lots of missions out here with heavy tank use and taking 1 rocket just breaks missions like this. We need backward compatibility here, BIS...I mean for crying out loud this game has been a retail release (not alpha any longer) for what 2 or 3 years now? New things added need to be optional only...you can't just keep making major gameplay mechanical changes like this 2 years after retail release and not be called sadistic, sorry....too many bad decisions for too long here.

 

There's no doubt that radical changes in the game play mechanics like this are not only problematic for the reasons you mentioned, but also frustrating for people that have already purchased the game.

 

There is also the fact that almost all of the guns in the marksman DLC now have such a high penalty while using them, I wonder why I purchased them that this point.  I kind of feel like I wasted my money buying them, because I'm no longer going to be using them.

[maquez 141]

hi all

 

solution for all who dislike the new introduced exaggerated stamina effects !

 

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/186348-q-net-nostamina/

[_AngusBeef 0]

Where to start here. Well i have nearly 2000 hours into arma 3, and i help run a community which hosts one of the most popular altis life servers going. Since the release of this patch our population has fallen from a constant 90/90 most hours of the day, to our pop hitting a max of 75 only during the peak hour of the day. This update has everyone in our community up in arms, and even myself having zero motivation to come play. The fatigue system is downright ridiculous, especially for servers like altis life. Also the idea that a person can die in a car going 60kph from hitting a road sine, like seriously bohemia......wtf. 

 

At this point BI, you are literally breaking the parts of the game we all like, while still avoiding the true issues your game/engine has. Perhaps rather than making peoples characters waive their guns around like they are in a cartoon after running 20 feet. Work on getting the game to run at 60fps on something other than the most substantial rigs. perhaps try fixing the odd physics issues. Literally the last two major updates you have pushed have broken basic game mechanics. Its time to revert back this update, and lets forget it ever happened. Or just keep it because its "your vision" not the paying customers, and we will just watch our community which we have spent thousands of dollars on dwindle because of poor decisions pushed upon us by the developers. 

[dasweetdude 11]

I would prefer to just turn it off l can see there are functions to do so but they seem bugged l have noticed someone has made a mod that stops the turtle walking so the rest of it can be turned off but this is something that should have been made optional. Not everyone wants staminia enabled esp the servers we are currently running.

[breech99 47]

I enjoy this new Stamina system. It may not be the final version but it's sad to see people complain about how it should be and just enjoy it, play it or don't play it. When gamers are in a world they take on an entitled attitude, the game should do what I want it to do.  This is why I guess people get upset when a game has ambiguous endings and they get upset if it's not exactly what they expect. As this game or any artform, you can have your own interpretation of it, but what you are going to get is what the artist gives you. You can like or dislike it just fine, but you can't expect the artist to change it because of what you want because you might be dissapointed..  Now to go change mass effect, Scorsese movie endings and put some eyebrows on the Mona Lisa.  pfft.  Risk of the consumer people. It might not work out the way you want it too.    -  The game industry is in such a weird state of mind where it wants to be taken seriously. There's a little bit of something for everybody.  Enjoy.

[rob1 4]

I enjoy this new Stamina system. It may not be the final version but it's sad to see people complain about how it should be and just enjoy it, play it or don't play it. When gamers are in a world they take on an entitled attitude, the game should do what I want it to do.  This is why I guess people get upset when a game has ambiguous endings and they get upset if it's not exactly what they expect. As this game or any artform, you can have your own interpretation of it, but what you are going to get is what the artist gives you. You can like or dislike it just fine, but you can't expect the artist to change it because of what you want because you might be dissapointed..  Now to go change mass effect, Scorsese movie endings and put some eyebrows on the Mona Lisa.  pfft.  Risk of the consumer people. It might not work out the way you want it too.    -  The game industry is in such a weird state of mind where it wants to be taken seriously. There's a little bit of something for everybody.  Enjoy.

I'm gob smacked at your brown nose attitude.  The stamina system blows plain to see.  Your right in that people can vote with their feet but mods will negate this.  Your telling me a trained soldier wouldn't be able to run a few feet & take aim effectively? BS of course they would.  Most are happy to go with what BI has created with arma (I love the game & haven't played anything else in quite a while) but this just seems stupid.  This level of realism ruins the game, I would imagine that 99% of players (me included) want to stick to the realism vibe thats what makes the title stand out among all the other tired shooters but what next?! waiting for a virtual UN security council to vote on whether we should be allowed to start a mission? or how about random drug tests for players to ensure they are capable of operating firearms? Cmon realism yes but also needs to be enjoyable.

[tacticalsheltie 13]

I enjoy this new Stamina system. It may not be the final version but it's sad to see people complain about how it should be and just enjoy it, play it or don't play it. When gamers are in a world they take on an entitled attitude, the game should do what I want it to do.  This is why I guess people get upset when a game has ambiguous endings and they get upset if it's not exactly what they expect. As this game or any artform, you can have your own interpretation of it, but what you are going to get is what the artist gives you. You can like or dislike it just fine, but you can't expect the artist to change it because of what you want because you might be dissapointed..  Now to go change mass effect, Scorsese movie endings and put some eyebrows on the Mona Lisa.  pfft.  Risk of the consumer people. It might not work out the way you want it too.    -  The game industry is in such a weird state of mind where it wants to be taken seriously. There's a little bit of something for everybody.  Enjoy.

If the devs decided to make it so every unit was invincible and nobody complained they may keep it that way. Getting our voice out is how the community can change development for a game, and it's in the developer's best interests to listen to their community. Especially in a game like Arma where it isn't a AAA mainstream title and a relatively small and loyal community keeps it alive.

[jone_kone 158]

I'm gob smacked at your brown nose attitude.  The stamina system blows plain to see.  Your right in that people can vote with their feet but mods will negate this.  Your telling me a trained soldier wouldn't be able to run a few feet & take aim effectively? BS of course they would.  Most are happy to go with what BI has created with arma (I love the game & haven't played anything else in quite a while) but this just seems stupid.  This level of realism ruins the game, I would imagine that 99% of players (me included) want to stick to the realism vibe thats what makes the title stand out among all the other tired shooters but what next?! waiting for a virtual UN security council to vote on whether we should be allowed to start a mission? or how about random drug tests for players to ensure they are capable of operating firearms? Cmon realism yes but also needs to be enjoyable.

 

Pretty unconstructive manners...  Everyone is entitled to their opinion here? right? 

 

It´s obvious that very few people here have had the chance to try out a real plate carrier system and firing from a standing position (other than standing still on a range). After playing around with it for a few hours I still consider the new system more realistic. But I can understand that sprinting is something that many are used to, and also carrying insane loadouts so the change can be somewhat of a shock (hence the whining). Edit: the sway may be realistic in some way for handguns, but for the game to be fun to play it could be adjusted a bit. Especially regarding binoculars etc.

 

Anyhow, I belive that from the beginning it was stated that the stamina system could be scripted around, and it only took two days:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=29897

[[ha]boris 49]

Fatigue is normal.
But there are problems.
Signatures in Russian, but in the video you can see everything.

https://youtu.be/TUOroCaG8Q8

If you go up the hill backwards or sideways, then the fatigue is spent as if to go on a flat surface.

[Greenfist 1863]

Fatigue is normal.

But there are problems.

Signatures in Russian, but in the video you can see everything.

https://youtu.be/TUOroCaG8Q8

If you go up the hill backwards or sideways, then the fatigue is spent as if to go on a flat surface.

Maybe it's because you're moving slower than running?

[[ha]boris 49]

Maybe it's because you're moving slower than running?

According to my observations, the speed is the same.

[Greenfist 1863]

According to my observations, the speed is the same.

The normal running speed is 14.2 km/h, sideways 10.0 km/h, backwards 9.6 km/h.

[Zenofire 0]

Love the game...I think there is a clear disconnect between what BIS has in its development pipeline from what the customers (US!) really want and that voice has been either overlooked or they have selected those that are telling them what they want to hear.

 

Firstly, you can see form above that the system falls short of expectations all around bar a few comments and even then most have concerns.

 

Literally, all servers I have joined are messed up so far...albeit I have joined Exile, A3 and no others yet, I am sure it will be fixed in time on these until another update reverts everyone back to frantically fixing it...I note at least one response above mentions server population dropoff -does this concern you one bit Devs??? I am interested in that discussion because keeping the community going is of great concern to all of us (customers, remember).

 

While fatigued, i can tell you, if someone starts shooting my direction, motivation and adrenaline will take over and I will move frantically, I can assure you...and if I was as fit as I expect most fighting age men/women to be, I could probably keep it up for a while, this system does not support that reality. (https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/186307-154-fatigue-is-too-unrealistic/?p=2944330)

 

At the very least, this should have been an "OPT IN" system rather than "OPT OUT" (with lots of work involved). Its like the advanced heli controls - I have yet to find a server that uses it with a population more than 10 people on a regular basis (maybe I ain't lookin' hard enough).

 

I am concerned that from the outset, there has been huge discussions about very obvious improvements to the game architecture that would improve everything for everyone and yet there is 'tweaking' (as referred to above) on systems that were just fine to start with and were at a good level of realism that didn't need work. I guess your customer base must be changing, right? We the guinea pigs of the next big customer? I am guessing server populations will drop off, no loss really some playing are idiots, right? what happens when admins give up and mod developers give up?

 

Reacting at that point will be too late....