Macser 776 Posted October 8, 2015 I can press a button on Steam Workshop and my stuff is published. If I discover a bug or serious issue, it takes me 30 seconds to publish the fix. Contrast with Armaholic, where this process can take days if you catch them at a bad time. That isn't a major concern for everybody. It's a bit unfair comparing a corporately owned service like Steam , directly with Armaholic. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richie 330 Posted October 8, 2015 You can't bash Armaholic, how can anyone justify it ? The guys have provided a source of content for many many years, they're always on the ball, yes there can be delays but they work tirelessly for FREE, when they're being paid for their time, then you can complain. When my terrain is released and i get some donations, Armaholic will be seeing a share, because they deserve it and i've used the Armaholic website for many years, so thank you guys for past and future content hosting :) 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosmic10r 2331 Posted October 8, 2015 Yeah... the extremely weak and lazy armaholic bashing is getting old... They have been a staple for the community for years... have a little respect :( We are damn lucky to have them... Full Stop 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phronk 898 Posted October 8, 2015 Steam Workshop is absolutely terrible. There's virtually no management of it (at least for ArmA 3) which basically lets uploaders to label/tag their mission, mod, or whatever as literally everything, making the Workshop a total clusterfuck to even look at. Not to mention, due to the lack of management, it's very easy to just upload other people's work and take credit. The worst that can happen is "your" uploaded resource gets removed after being reported by 20 people, only so you can do it again later. I don't think they issue punishments like bans to addon thieves. Workshop has a long way to go and is just a platform for thieves and people incapable of following a simple installation process, essentially. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fn_Quiksilver 1636 Posted October 8, 2015 That isn't a major concern for everybody. It's a bit unfair comparing a corporately owned service like Steam , directly with Armaholic. The ability for modders to maintain their own page is the only thing really holding it back Yeah... the extremely weak and lazy armaholic bashing is getting old... They have been a staple for the community for years... have a little respect :( We are damn lucky to have them... Full Stop So we're not allowed to provide constructive criticism? I like the site and am baffled at how on-the-ball they are with updating mods. But fact remains it's a very small team (why?) and does not allow content creators to edit their own pages. Whether you like it or not, they are in competition with Steam Workshop, and I merely voice my issue with armaholic that there is an inefficiency in publishing content to it, again, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, the site should grant own-page editing to trusted content creators. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fn_Quiksilver 1636 Posted October 8, 2015 Kind of funny so many people only critize Armaholic yet nobody wonders why things are how they are.... Keep bashing my work, keep using ad blockers, keep busy writing all negative crap about my website and keep busy not supporting my work in whatever way. I really have not much interest to develop something for this Arma community (which does not mean I am standing still, just dont expect I do it for you people). But.....what am I thinking actually responding here. Ciao! A bit uncalled for. Your work for the community is of course invaluable, I merely pointing out some things holding your service back. If the work is a lot, I'm sure there are many volunteers from the community who would be willing to assist you for free. Also it is not up to us to wonder why things are how they are, and of course most of us have lives and don't have the time to focus on so many different areas, and if there are concerns that can be addressed or require donations to maintain or improve the service, let us know. Remaining silent if there are issues I find does not help. Strange we cannot voice criticisms in this community without attack :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cosmic10r 2331 Posted October 8, 2015 The ability for modders to maintain their own page is the only thing really holding it back So we're not allowed to provide constructive criticism? I like the site and am baffled at how on-the-ball they are with updating mods. But fact remains it's a very small team (why?) and does not allow content creators to edit their own pages. Whether you like it or not, they are in competition with Steam Workshop, and I merely voice my issue with armaholic that there is an inefficiency in publishing content to it, again, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, the site should grant own-page editing to trusted content creators. To be fair ... mine was a general statement towards all these steam workshop threads that seem to pop up these days pleading for more publishing on workshop because people can't take time to keep their game updated or understand the file structure and thats why I didnt quote your post... Comments are frequently made about Armaholic that complain about a link being slow or whatever and it gets old for a site that has been such an important repository of Arma info long before steam workshop was an apple in Arma's eye... I can agree with you that the feature you requested would be nice but there may be a reason for that.... I don't think saying Armaholic has kept up with the times is a fair statement at all tho.... there may be features of steam that are more convenient but for what Armaholic is and what it has been... it is miraculous... And to go on more of a general rant (im trying to do less of that these days) it ties into this general malaise society has as a whole where they think everything should be easy, and if its hard, Well I shouldnt have to get better or gain more knowledge. Why has the world not made this easier for me... this is an outrage that I would have to apply myself to get something meaningful from this.... And that goes across every spectrum of society these days... people need to fully conceptualize that s#*t in means s#*t out... or to put it a bit more PC... you get out what you put in... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badluckburt 78 Posted October 8, 2015 The ability for modders to maintain their own page is the only thing really holding it back So we're not allowed to provide constructive criticism? I like the site and am baffled at how on-the-ball they are with updating mods. But fact remains it's a very small team (why?) and does not allow content creators to edit their own pages. Whether you like it or not, they are in competition with Steam Workshop, and I merely voice my issue with armaholic that there is an inefficiency in publishing content to it, again, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, the site should grant own-page editing to trusted content creators. Armaholic is not in competition with Steam Workshop, that's just your opinion. You seem surprised that people aren't on your side but you're not being particularly constructive. AH has been working on giving creators editing capabilities for their own pages for quite some time now, I see it in every post Foxhound makes in release threads (example: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/185317-tac-vests/) but you act like they're not making any effort at all. If you don't appreciate the service AH provides, don't use it :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 8, 2015 A bit uncalled for. So, me defending my work is uncalled for yet anyone that is not busy on Armaholic is allowed to write whatever words come to their mind to describe, what they think, is my work and or how should be my work and wether it sucks or not? Funny as fuck but ah well, I know on the internet all traffic is one way. If the work is a lot, I'm sure there are many volunteers from the community who would be willing to assist you for free. Sorry but ..... No explanation needed. In my opinion, the site should grant own-page editing to trusted content creators. Maybe its already working? Maybe I just dont want it there for now cause this community is not worth it (anymore)? And about competing Steam..... here is another one --> But anyway, I once again replied to something not worth my attention. I really should not bother myself about it as I do not with the rest. So, here is the final ciao for this thread and go knock yourself out by writing about me for me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackal326 1181 Posted October 8, 2015 I read subsequent replies and it makes me sad that so many people don't care about the Author's rights. Exactly. All half (if not more) of the people on here care about is downloading the end result of tens/hundreds/thousands of hours of work and enjoying it. They couldn't give two shits about how Valve treat the creator or their intellectual property. I doubt half of those same people have even read the Steam Workshop EULA and understand what is at stake, let alone care. It deeply saddens me to read some of the naive replies in here (and elsewhere) stating how the Steam Workshop is the answer to everything, when quite frankly it poses more questions than it answers: namely, "Why do people actually think its a good idea?" and "Why aren't those same people being sterilised to help save the gene-pool?". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warden_1 1070 Posted October 9, 2015 Bashing Armaholic? Why? The format and layout is done well. It constantly gets updated and is a great way to check everyday for something cool to pop up if you don't browse the forums. It's made specifically for the community by the community... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roshnak 41 Posted October 9, 2015 I think it's pretty funny how many people in this thread are acting like most users don't care about authors' rights or something when in reality those users probably just see Steam Workshop as a convenient way to get mods and in all likelihood haven't even read the EULA for Steam Workshop, Steam, or even Arma (because no one reads EULAs). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fn_Quiksilver 1636 Posted October 9, 2015 Most of us in this thread have contributed a lot of our free time to making cool stuff for the community. I think no need to get snappy with one another. I think it's pretty funny how many people in this thread are acting like most users don't care about authors' rights or something when in reality those users probably just see Steam Workshop as a convenient way to get mods and in all likelihood haven't even read the EULA for Steam Workshop, Steam, or even Arma (because no one reads EULAs). There are very legitimate reservations many of us have re Steam Workshop, which are encapsulated in just one paragraph of the Steam Workshop EULA. I choose to generally disregard the concerns for two reasons. 1. I don't make anything that special or valuable :) 2. This is very much a side-hobby and I don't want to commit time/energy to caring about IP, theft, copyright violations, etc. I post it here for reading: http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ 6. USER GENERATED CONTENT A. General Provisions "User Generated Content" means any content you make available to other users through your use of multi-user features of Steam, or to Valve or its affiliates through your use of the Content and Services or otherwise. You grant Valve and its affiliates the worldwide, non-exclusive, right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, transcode, translate, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site. This license is granted to Valve for the entire duration of the intellectual property rights and may be terminated if Valve is in breach of the license and has not cured such breach within fourteen (14) days from receiving notice from you sent to the attention of the Valve Legal Department at the applicable Valve address noted on this Privacy Policy page. The termination of said license does not affect the rights of any sub-licensees pursuant to any sub-license granted by Valve prior to termination of the license. Valve is the sole owner of the derivative works created by Valve from your Content, and is therefore entitled to grant licenses on these derivative works. If you use Valve cloud storage, you grant us a license to store your information as part of that service. We may place limits on the amount of storage you may use. If you provide Valve with any feedback or suggestions about Steam, the Content and Services, or any Valve products or services, Valve is free to use the feedback or suggestions however it chooses, without any obligation to account to you. B. Content Uploaded to the Steam Workshop Some games or applications available on Steam ("Workshop-Enabled Apps") allow you to create User Generated Content based on or using the Workshop-Enabled App, and to submit that User Generated Content (a “Workshop Contributionâ€) to one or more Steam Workshop web pages. Workshop Contributions can be viewed by the Steam community, and for some categories of Workshop Contributions users may be able to interact with, download or purchase the Workshop Contribution. In some cases, Workshop Contributions may be considered for incorporation by Valve or a third-party developer into a game or into a Subscription Marketplace. You understand and agree that Valve is not obligated to use, distribute, or continue to distribute copies of any Workshop Contribution and reserves the right, but not the obligation, to restrict or remove Workshop Contributions for any reason. Specific Workshop-Enabled Apps or Workshop web pages may contain special terms (“App-Specific Termsâ€) that supplement or change the terms set out in this Section. In particular, where Workshop Contributions are distributed for a fee, App-Specific Terms will address how revenue may be shared. Unless otherwise specified in App-Specific Terms (if any), the following general rules apply to Workshop Contributions. Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions. Notwithstanding the license described in Section 6.A., Valve will only have the right to modify or create derivative works from your Workshop Contribution in the following cases: (a) Valve may make modifications necessary to make your Contribution compatible with Steam and the Workshop functionality or user interface, and ( B) Valve or the applicable developer may make modifications to Workshop Contributions that are accepted for in-Application distribution as it deems necessary or desirable to enhance gameplay. You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and ( B) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution. Except where otherwise provided in App-Specific Terms, you agree that Valve’s consideration of your Workshop Contribution is your full compensation, and you are not entitled to any other rights or compensation in connection with the rights granted to Valve and to other Subscribers. Its a good tool for low-value work, but if I was creating something which I thought was valuable and worth some $$$ down the line, there is no way in hell I'd agree to that license. 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Macser 776 Posted October 9, 2015 I'm not directing the following at any particular individual. Modders who have an issue with Steam probably don't like the lack of control they have to trade. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. And it doesn't have to be about monetary value. That could be countered by saying there's potential for trouble no matter what you do. Maybe so. But that's all the more reason to use a service you personally know and trust, like Armaholic. And limit yourself to them. Being "held back" is not an issue. Sure it'd be nice to get your work out to a big audience. But there are modders ,believe or not, who don't care about kudos, notoriety or cred. They don't need it. There are those who would continue doing what they do long after all the noise has gone. I'm sure there's plenty of modders out there who feel very differently about it, and favour the Steam service. That's great. And more power to them. If that's what they feel comfortable with then support them and remind them that you appreciate what they do. Say "thanks" once in a while. But if it so happens that the modders people rate the highest are not on the Steam juggernaut, that's just the way it is. Accept it and move on. Or continue badgering and risk alienating them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokedog3para 365 Posted October 9, 2015 I am part of the tin foil hat brigade that belive Steam is evil :angry:, only reason jbad objects is going on is steve was asked, my personal thoughts are I will carry on and use Armaholic as always Armaholic will look after you foxhound and the guys we know for many years of dealing with each other so when content is dodgy it gets removed ASAP can steam offer this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stu81 45 Posted October 10, 2015 Let's face it, the only reason steam being used over armaholic is download speed (nothing to do with auto updates etc). Me personally if I can get it on steam, dropbox, Google drive etc I'll take it as I can download 1gb in mins but the sheer back catalogue on armaholic is awesome and they are dependable and trustworthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
