BIS, any work being done on Voice Over Network?

[spanishsurfer 58]

For several years now we (ARMA 3 community) have been dealing with a subpar ingame chat system (Please do not mention TFAR/ACRE as an alternative, that's not a solution to the problem for PUB servers). While ARMA has many things that need attention/love, this one needs to be addressed soon. The skipping/stuttering is a real problem, it creates situations where everyone has to type and really isn't acceptable for a AAA title. You guys have done A LOT of good work in the past few years by introducing features like weapon resting, firing from vehicles, advanced rotorlib, etc but VON is a big one and it's completely BROKEN.

So I humbly ask that you put a few people on this problem and fix the broken VON system (or at least fill us in what you are doing about it). Once fixed, maybe the community can convince you to give us a somewhat realistic comms feature. I know I'd pay some $$$ to have an ingame TFR where modding isn't required.

-SS

[Jackal326 1181]

...Please do not mention TFAR/ACRE as an alternative, that's not a solution to the problem for PUB servers...

Why isn't it? Most server-providers offer dirt-cheap (sometimes free) TS servers when taken up with a game-server package. I get where you're coming from, but until BIS fix VON TS with TFAR/ACRE IS a viable alternative. If your argument was more along the lines of "But not everyone will connect to and use TS properly!" then those people probably wouldn't use VON properly either so the point is moot.

...I know I'd pay some $$$ to have an ingame TFR where modding isn't required.

You'd probably be better off simply donating "some $$$" to TFAR/ACRE. I too hope that BI finally fix VON (as well as serveral other burning issues that still plague this series that have been around for years. That said, I realise BI's team is small (when compared to bigger studios anyway) and "putting a couple of guys on it" probably isn't a viable option. They simply have to prioritise their workload...hopefully VON is somewhere near the top but I'd wager that overall performance issues are higher up that chart - along with many other things.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

For several years now we (ARMA 3 community) have been dealing with a subpar ingame chat system (Please do not mention TFAR/ACRE as an alternative, that's not a solution to the problem for PUB servers). While ARMA has many things that need attention/love, this one needs to be addressed soon. The skipping/stuttering is a real problem, it creates situations where everyone has to type and really isn't acceptable for a AAA title. You guys have done A LOT of good work in the past few years by introducing features like weapon resting, firing from vehicles, advanced rotorlib, etc but VON is a big one and it's completely BROKEN.

So I humbly ask that you put a few people on this problem and fix the broken VON system (or at least fill us in what you are doing about it). Once fixed, maybe the community can convince you to give us a somewhat realistic comms feature. I know I'd pay some $$$ to have an ingame TFR where modding isn't required.

-SS

I wouldn't say it's Broken, but i do agree it does need a serious re-work. I actually avoid talking on anything but Direct chat, and rely on Teamspeak for Squad based chatter, and only use typing for team mates. Most people don't use VON either, due to the fact it lags for the first 15 minutes anyway, and no one wants to hear you lag for 15 minutes for it to fix itself in the first place. This is the problem we currently have, on most Public servers that is.

So yeah, i can see where your coming from in regards to TFAR, and ACRE. Those are mods and should stay mods. We need a Vanilla solution to this issue. What would be really cool? You know how in DayZ, when Dean Hall showed off the Radio? Well, the Arma series has a radio in game, and has had it for years. It'd be neat if BIS could take the Radio tech, give the Radio frequencies, and have the sound source transmit to the radio on a person, instead of directly in on their system, or through the ear. Something like this that's still team based would be really cool. I''m not sure if the Radio thing is DayZ is laggy, i've never seen it used in video's to be honest, but it's just a thought.

[spanishsurfer 58]

Jackal, run a popular public server and you'll understand why radio mods are not a solution to a vanilla problem. We need a vanilla fix. It's so bad most people don't use it or have forgotten it's an option. That's how bad it is!

Edited July 16, 2015 by SpanishSurfer

[Onno 22]

Jackal, run a popular public server and you'll understand why radio mods are not a solution to a vanilla problem. We need a vanilla fix. It's so bad most people don't use it or have forgotten it's an option. That's how had it is!

QFT

I can't stress this enough. Most pubs thrive on people who are occasional players. You can't expect hem to use mods. Mods are a feature for the hard core users, really.

[I give up 152]

Jackal, run a popular public server and you'll understand why radio mods are not a solution to a vanilla problem. We need a vanilla fix. It's so bad most people don't use it or have forgotten it's an option. That's how had it is!

Unfortunately this is true.

The main (if not the only) reason why Arma has lost almost all players for Multiplayer (when we speak military genre gameplay) is because it has become mod dependent for everything and anything.

Casual player do not care about mods, casual player is not in the mood to download tons of gigabytes, casual player do not want to have space wasted in his SSD just to play sometimes and the worst part is when they try to join a public server that requires mods and because of that they cant, most of them just give up at this point.

That's why the only remaining servers online (military gameplay) are closed communities, other than that is Life, Breaking Point or similar stuff.

Arma 3 as MP (military gameplay) is basically dead.

[kridian 33]

At what point did Side Channel and not being able to fire the miniguns (causes lag) on the Ghosthawk become broken features? And why do the other VON channels seem to work?

I think it's safe to conclude that audio is a major problem in vanilla multiplayer.

[thr0tt 12]

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=18733

I gave up reporting it, its not a priority to fix, only a few people still use it.

[Defunkt 431]

I haven't played with TFAR but it looks to be the same as ACRE in that it introduces new objects and classes and thus requires everybody on the server to have it.

Assuming BIS don't get around to fixing up VON, the next best thing would be a TeamSpeak/Mumble based solution that operates entirely on the personal radios and vehicles (which should be equipped with radios) that are already in the game. A2TS (the proof-of-concept that launched ACRE) worked like this and it was great because a group of friends could join a public server and have clear directional speech and squad-based communications (albeit subject to A2TS' janky clipboard mechanics) without affecting anybody else.

A server-op could then promote the use of their TS server as an option for those regulars who wanted to seek out and setup the mod. The biggest issue with TS as a VON replacement on public servers is that the current mods are designed in such a way that everybody must have them (which is a shame because it's really not that necessary, you could achieve 90% of the significant functionality without doing so).

Edited July 14, 2015 by Defunkt

[dale0404 5]

Also fix sound3D whilst they are at it.

[bad benson 1733]

I wouldn't say it's Broken

Most people don't use VON either, due to the fact it lags for the first 15 minutes anyway, and no one wants to hear you lag for 15 minutes for it to fix itself in the first place. This is the problem we currently have, on most Public servers that is.

lol what?

-----------------

i first thought it was weird that battllefield had no VON but then i read the chat and realised it was better that way. ;)

in arma on the other hand i think it's a crucial thing. it starts at new guys being willing to cooperate but being left unguided by arma's super bare bones and dusty dry mission making traditions (main game UI doesn't help), and it goes on to the more important tactical coordination, which makes the game interesting and is simply required on the large open terrains to get any fun out of it. to me arma is one of the worst games to lone wolf (unless you like walking sims a la DayZ). easy examples: transport, revive, overwatch, CAS.

i think something like ACRE in vanilla would be overkill (too much micro management for a broad solution) but i'd like to see the default radio channels properly explained for newbs in a showcase or something. and the UI could be more hands on too to make it more obvious. simplest solution would be incoorperating the channels into the radio (3d map object) so that isn't useless and to make it clear non verbally what the channels are, basically radio frequencies. would be cool to have the radio show up briefly when you change channels with a little UI animation and maybe a short static sound cue.

first of all VON working properly at all would be a good step though. obviously.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

lol what?

-----------------

i first thought it was weird that battllefield had no VON but then i read the chat and realised it was better that way. ;)

in arma on the other hand i think it's a crucial thing. it starts at new guys being willing to cooperate but being left unguided by arma's super bare bones and dusty dry mission making traditions (main game UI doesn't help), and it goes on to the more important tactical coordination, which makes the game interesting and is simply required on the large open terrains to get any fun out of it. to me arma is one of the worst games to lone wolf (unless you like walking sims a la DayZ). easy examples: transport, revive, overwatch, CAS.

i think something like ACRE in vanilla would be overkill (too much micro management for a broad solution) but i'd like to see the default radio channels properly explained for newbs in a showcase or something. and the UI could be more hands on too to make it more obvious. simplest solution would be incoorperating the channels into the radio (3d map object) so that isn't useless and to make it clear non verbally what the channels are, basically radio frequencies. would be cool to have the radio show up briefly when you change channels with a little UI animation and maybe a short static sound cue.

first of all VON working properly at all would be a good step though. obviously.

Yes. It really is that way. People don't use VON because it lags, and if they hear people talking on it, usually they're quick to either yell at you back in chat, or type in all caps. This is common in wasteland game-modes, far more rare in Domination/Annex based missions. The only mission i know of that still uses VON effectively is Tee Times Warfare, but again, you have to sit there and talk to people, which lags for everyone else for a handful of minutes before, the rust falls off, so to speak. It is annoying.

You mentioned a few nice things though. While the functionality remains key, it's worth an update at some point, in a way that remains simple AND useful for both noobs and veterans alike. For example, a simplified Vanilla version of TFAR for example, that uses just the Radio we already have in game. They even have a 3D model for it anyway. Would be cool if sound transmitted to the radio as well. Imagine moving up in a forest when you hear distant radio chatter, turns out to be someone transmitting to a nearby enemy squad about mission details. How freaking awesome would that be!

[optix 137]

Would be cool if sound transmitted to the radio as well. Imagine moving up in a forest when you hear distant radio chatter, turns out to be someone transmitting to a nearby enemy squad about mission details. How freaking awesome would that be!

^ This. I hope they got some spare time to fix VON soon, it really scares of new players as they usually only experience the vanilla VON.

[spanishsurfer 58]

^ This. I hope they got some spare time to fix VON soon, it really scares of new players as they usually only experience the vanilla VON.

That's precisely the problem...I can't communicate to new players on the server because of how terrible VON is.

[austin_medic 109]

Prehaps you should look towards whats being sent over the network by your missions. You could review the wiki for commands that have global varients (or their effect is global now, or always was), and try to optimize the usage of BIS_fnc_MP that way, as using BIS_fnc_MP and the command simply sends the command twice and doubles the load on the already bogged down network.

since I believe you run a warfare server you could possibly benefit from reviewing current scripts that use it (you could also change it over to use remoteExec, which is probably more efficient, though thats currently useless to you as its not in stable yet apparently as of July 16th). You could also look at server settings to try to find different numbers (specifically under the network tab in TADAST, or you could go manual editing if you want for things related to networking, if you have access to the server itself and use that tool, otherwise you wont be able to do this, unless manually editing server config) that can get better results for your specific missions.

Unfortunately theres only so far that stuff can carry the torch.

[Dwarden 1125]

VON issues (yes there are multiple ones) are known and they on WIP menu to resolve ;)

unfortunately some of those turned to be bigger problems so it takes longer than anyone would want

sorry for that

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

That's precisely the problem...I can't communicate to new players on the server because of how terrible VON is.

From my experience, new players join. First thing they do ( understandably) ask for some help on side chat. Because side is laggy people start caps shouting typing "get the fuck off side you stupid cunt".

Now that's partially a bad attitude from some players or had enough of the von shit. Either way it really does need a speeding up in the process. There have been some cool suggestions to make the von more radio like. Which be nice for the expansion realistically.

[spanishsurfer 58]

Which be nice for the expansion realistically.

Give me somewhat realistic radio comms for A3 Expansion and I'll be happier then a pig in mud.

[bad benson 1733]

VON issues (yes there are multiple ones) are known and they on WIP menu to resolve ;)

unfortunately some of those turned to be bigger problems so it takes longer than anyone would want

sorry for that

that's great to hear. sounds also like some general net code stuff is being fixed in the process (atleast to my ears lol).

on the topic of expanding VON. i really think key is to do very little but effective stuff. if people want more they can always use the awesome scripting stuff that allows you to make new channels etc inside the missions to avoid mod requirements. or maybe someone wants to fill that gap. now there are two mods that do the same. how about a mission based framework with similar goals that doesn't require addon files? (after VON works again ofc ;))

[spanishsurfer 58]

how about a mission based framework with similar goals that doesn't require addon files? (after VON works again ofc ;))

That'd be dope!

[thr0tt 12]

that's great to hear. sounds also like some general net code stuff is being fixed in the process (atleast to my ears lol).

on the topic of expanding VON. i really think key is to do very little but effective stuff. if people want more they can always use the awesome scripting stuff that allows you to make new channels etc inside the missions to avoid mod requirements. or maybe someone wants to fill that gap. now there are two mods that do the same. how about a mission based framework with similar goals that doesn't require addon files? (after VON works again ofc ;))

Don't get too excited, this problem was reported "2014-05-05 19:46"...

[DancZer 65]

VON issues (yes there are multiple ones) are known and they on WIP menu to resolve ;)

unfortunately some of those turned to be bigger problems so it takes longer than anyone would want

sorry for that

Could you make some kind of von channel options, until the fix/refact comes? I mean it would be good, if we could disable some channels(GLOBAL) from description.ext or via script. Currently in KoTH mission(or basically any high ppl count server), when somebody talks to global channel the whole game start lagging.

[Greenfist 1863]

Could you make some kind of von channel options, until the fix/refact comes? I mean it would be good, if we could disable some channels(GLOBAL) from description.ext or via script. Currently in KoTH mission(or basically any high ppl count server), when somebody talks to global channel the whole game start lagging.

Does the disableChannels apply to VON or only the text channels?

[DancZer 65]

Does the disableChannels apply to VON or only the text channels?

Because there is "6 = System" i bet it's chat only, but i will test it.

Btw: The chat is ok. The lag is because of the VON.

[austin_medic 109]

disableChannels disables the channel completely (removes the ability to cycle through to that channel). VON will NOT work on it because it isn't even selectable by players on those channels.