The sniper saga

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Gotta love psychologists

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ Oct. 15 2002,15:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gotta love psychologists <span id='postcolor'>

She makes some good points, though, and she's an expert on mass murderers.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Smith also said the degree of planning, skill and patience needed to sustain the attacks for an extended period of time also leads her to suspect terrorists.

"This is too calculated," she said. "It's cool, it's calm, and it's from a distance. It doesn't sound like the work of a maniac."

<span id='postcolor'>

That's what I'v been thinking and conveying all along, except it does not mean this is anyone from a terrorist organization.

I wonder if it's not 2-3 people instead of 1, there have been sightings of 3 different white vehicles, sometimes 2 men sometimes 1. So maybe this is some sort of small new terror group?

I still can't believe how this or these men are getting away after 11 shootings... something is really wrong, almost anyone would have gotten captured by now.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Oct. 15 2002,20:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just a few comments.

Death penalty is actually much more expensive on the tax payers than life imprisonment. And yes that is true.<span id='postcolor'>

Only in America!  

If this is the case, maybe the US needs legal reforms so that such a ridiculous situation cannot exist.

Anyway, the best way around this is for the cops who find him to riddle his carcass with lead. That shouldn't cost too much, eh?  

[NavyEEL 0]

the lady who was killed at the home depot on 14 Oct 02... it turns out she was an FBI agent. the FBI had initially said they weren't going to get involved, but i think this might change their perspective on things. in addition to that, the killers are suspected to be 2 dark males driving the white truck/van. they're likely to be of middle eastern descent, and this leads me to believe that the attack are indeed the works of a terrorist organization. initially i had thrown out the possibility of the attacks being the result of terrorism, but now that i look over the evidence and the precision of the shootings, i'm starting to change my mind. it also fits the quote of al qaeda, saying they would continue their terror attacks in ways we wouldn't expect. just my two cents on the matter.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NavyEEL @ Oct. 15 2002,20:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if he gets tried here in virginia, he'll definitely get the death penalty. we have the 2nd highest # of death penalties per year, can you guess who has the #1?<span id='postcolor'>

T3x4$ pwnz j00!!!1111

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NavyEEL @ Oct. 15 2002,19:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the lady who was killed at the home depot on 14 Oct 02... it turns out she was an FBI agent.  the FBI had initially said they weren't going to get involved, but i think this might change their perspective on things.  in addition to that, the killers are suspected to be 2 dark males driving the white truck/van.  they're likely to be of middle eastern descent, and this leads me to believe that the attack are indeed the works of a terrorist organization.  initially i had thrown out the possibility of the attacks being the result of terrorism, but now that i look over the evidence and the precision of the shootings, i'm starting to change my mind. it also fits the quote of al qaeda, saying they would continue their terror attacks in ways we wouldn't expect.  just my two cents on the matter.<span id='postcolor'>

How could the FBI not get involved in this? They are the primary federal law enforcement agency in this country.

Also, I saw some TV footage of a black Bell 412 helicopter with armed men sitting in the open doors. They were said to be an FBI team, probably HRT.

[DarkLight 0]

Why am i against the death penalty? Here's why, too many people that get the death penalty are innocent. More than 50 % of the executed ppl are innocent. Of course they only realize that after the execution, the family gets some money and life goes on. That's just sick, death is never a solution...

We're talking about lifes here, not just numbers, most people don't realize that. It's like killing animals for no reason at all, saying that it's just an animal is wrong. It's a life and it deserves to live.

Death penalty is just wrong, i'm glad they don't have it here in Belgium, i'm sure i'd protest against it....

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Oct. 16 2002,14:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why am i against the death penalty?  Here's why, too many people that get the death penalty are innocent.  More than 50 % of the executed ppl are innocent.  Of course they only realize that after the execution, the family gets some money and life goes on.  That's just sick, death is never a solution...

We're talking about lifes here, not just numbers, most people don't realize that.  It's like killing animals for no reason at all, saying that it's just an animal is wrong.  It's a life and it deserves to live.

Death penalty is just wrong, i'm glad they don't have it here in Belgium, i'm sure i'd protest against it....<span id='postcolor'>

Did you know that more than 50% of statistics are made up?

[Julemanden 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Oct. 16 2002,04:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NavyEEL @ Oct. 15 2002,20:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if he gets tried here in virginia, he'll definitely get the death penalty. we have the 2nd highest # of death penalties per year, can you guess who has the #1?<span id='postcolor'>

T3x4$ pwnz j00!!!1111

<span id='postcolor'>

If he were inprisoned here, he would get raped and killed by inmates.... thats how we do it

[MJM0771 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the best way around this is for the cops who find him to riddle his carcass with lead. That shouldn't cost too much, eh? <span id='postcolor'>

Hoowaaah! Now you're talking!

Seriously though, thats probably what will happen in the end anyway...

Darklight,

I don't know the statistical percentage, but you are right, there have been cases where innocent people have been killed via the death penalty. I call that a tragedy. A mistake by mortal man. It does happen.

I've always believed the punishment should fit the crime. And in cases like this, where there is overhelming evidence, eye witnesses etc., of a crime of slaying other innocent people for no reason, I think the purpotrators of the sniper attacks should get it.

I live an alomost 2 hours away from the Washington area, and it still makes me nervous. I can only imagine what the people in that area are going thru. Not to mention the families of the victims...

The whole situation is FUBAR.

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Akira

Death penalty is actually much more expensive on the tax payers than life imprisonment. And yes that is true. <span id='postcolor'>

Can you show me some actual statas on that? Here in Canada it cost $40,000 per year to keep 1 prisoner behind bars. Say he stays for his whole life sentance that would work out to $1,000,000 for his entire life time. You can some how prove that it costs a million to execute someone? that leathal injection fluid must be expensive stuff.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">DarkLight Posted on Oct. 16 2002,08:19

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why am i against the death penalty? Here's why, too many people that get the death penalty are innocent. More than 50 % of the executed ppl are innocent. Of course they only realize that after the execution, the family gets some money and life goes on. That's just sick, death is never a solution... <span id='postcolor'>

I seriously doubt there are than many innocents, the States wouldn't use it if that were true. I think death is a good solution is because it keeps the scum off the streets. Its like stepping on a cock roach, a life that has no value, in fact it should be qualified as a negative value after taking someone else life, if you look at it as a sliding scale.

You see Darklight, in places such as Belgum there really isn't any need for a death penalty. Thats because a huge number of violent crime can be tied to racial tensions. But in a developed country that is comprised of almost entirly one race you don't have that kind of tension. I don't know but I'd bet that pretty much all of western Europe has a far lower crime rate than North America.

[Major Fubar 0]

It sounds like one of those pseudo-facts used by civil libertarians.

No offense Dark Light, but can you back up that 50%?

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Oct. 16 2002,16:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Akira

Death penalty is actually much more expensive on the tax payers than life imprisonment. And yes that is true. <span id='postcolor'>

Can you show me some actual statas on that? Here in Canada it cost $40,000 per year to keep 1 prisoner behind bars. Say he stays for his whole life sentance that would work out to $1,000,000 for his entire life time. You can some how prove that it costs a million to execute someone? that leathal injection fluid must be expensive stuff.<span id='postcolor'>

Here are some facts:

Death Penalty Costs

Federal Costs

More Cost Analysis

The cost usually because of lawyer and trail costs due to numerous legal appeals (sometimes all the way to the Supreme Court) that is a death penalty inmates rights under the law.

Though I still am a believer in the death penalty.

[Die Alive 0]

9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Oct. 16 2002,109)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Akira

Death penalty is actually much more expensive on the tax payers than life imprisonment. And yes that is true. <span id='postcolor'>

You can some how prove that it costs a million to execute someone? that leathal injection fluid must be expensive stuff.<span id='postcolor'>

Why don't they just put the to be executed prisoner in a coffin and bury it.  Put a few guards around the grave for a few days (so his friends don't dig him up and save him), and there you go, no messy electric chairs, no "expensive" lethal injection stuff.  At all these executions, there's a doctor on hand to pronounce the prisoner dead.  There's one expense that could be eliminated by using my method.  The prison is going to pay for the coffin anyway, so why just use it as the tool for execution.  Maybe if some people think this is inhumane, we should just drop the coffin on the head of the prisoner until he's dead, then put the body into the coffin.

Ok, if you got to keep the "electric chair", why not make it more efficient by executing more than one prisoner at one time. I say there should be a "electric sofa", it can hold 4 adults (or 2 adults and 3 children ) and. With one flick of the switch, all are given their shock of a lifetime. Or let's expand on the idea, have a "electric living room set" that has a sofa, love seat, and a lazyboy recliner!

-=Die Alive=-

[Texican 0]

I agree with akira on this one.

[Sadico 1]

Better use the chinese method, shoot the guy in the head and make his family pay the bullet.

[Die Alive 0]

BOT (Back On Topic), I was watching CNN yesterday afternoon and this guy was saying that video games like DOOM are the cause of these shootings, he linked the "I am God" to when in the game you're invincible. Boy is he off, DOOM never even had a sniper rifle. He also said that the white van could be a decoy, make the cops look for the white van while the shooter is driving away in another car. That makes more sense than the DOOM link.

-=Die Alive=-

[Major Fubar 0]

Doom? Man, is this guy out of touch with computer games.

Unless the shooter has been locked in a basement for the last 10 years, unable to get any new games...

Seriously, I hate when people point fingers at things like computer games with no solid evidence whatsoever.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Oct. 16 2002,17:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BOT (Back On Topic), I was watching CNN yesterday afternoon and this guy was saying that video games like DOOM are the cause of these shootings, he linked the "I am God" to when in the game you're invincible.  Boy is he off, DOOM never even had a sniper rifle.  He also said that the white van could be a decoy, make the cops look for the white van while the shooter is driving away in another car.  That makes more sense than the DOOM link.

-=Die Alive=-<span id='postcolor'>

That's a great theory!

Hey why isn't anyone blaming the church? He said he was God....certainly if it wasn't for the church, he would not have heard of God and would not be trying to become Him.....Sheesh!

...and as if anyone plays DOOM these days...these people don't have a clue wtf they're talking about.

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The average total cost per federal death penalty representation in a sample of cases prosecuted from 1990 to 1997 (including cases in which the prosecution ultimately declined to seek the death penalty) was $142,000.(11) However, the prosecution's decision to seek the death penalty -- as would be expected -- makes a substantial difference in the cost of representation, so

that this overall average is not useful in assessing the resources required for a case in which the prosecution does decide to seek the death penalty.

<span id='postcolor'>

considerably less than the cost to keep a prisoner for life, but still pretty damn high. Why can't they make the system more efficent?

the stats on squishing roaches

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Oct. 16 2002,17:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The average total cost per federal death penalty representation in a sample of cases prosecuted from 1990 to 1997 (including cases in which the prosecution ultimately declined to seek the death penalty) was $142,000.(11) However, the prosecution's decision to seek the death penalty -- as would be expected -- makes a substantial difference in the cost of representation, so

that this overall average is not useful in assessing the resources required for a case in which the prosecution does decide to seek the death penalty.

<span id='postcolor'>

considerably less than the cost to keep a prisoner for life, but still pretty damn high. Why can't they make the system more efficent?

the stats on squishing roaches<span id='postcolor'>

Thats for Federal cases. Did you see the cost on STATE costs in the first link?

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thats for Federal cases. Did you see the cost on STATE costs in the first link?<span id='postcolor'>

I have a problem with those other links though, they are .org sites, while the one in the middle is a .gov site. Those other ones are probably just some more "thow the killers back on the streets" nuts that are trying to find somthing more to say that killing killers is wrong.

[Akira 0]

Then if you refuse to acknowledge the capital punishment is more expensive, then in the paper that you yourself acknowledge that you "trust" read one paragraph down:

"The Attorney General has authorized seeking the death penalty in a total of 111 cases between 1988 and December 1997.(12) The average total cost (for counsel and related services) of authorized cases in the Subcommittee's sample was $218,112, as compared to $55,772 for cases in which the death penalty was never authorized; the average total cost of cases in which the prosecution was authorized to seek the death penalty, but later formally withdrew its request before trial was $145,806. The number of cases in which the Attorney General authorized seeking the death penalty rose from two cases in 1990 to 31 cases in 1997. Twenty-two cases in which the prosecution has been authorized to seek the death penalty were pending as of December 1997."

Also be sure that I am not some "thow the killers back on the streets" nut as you say. I am a death penalty supporter. Just think they should streamline it like 1)found guilty and sentenced to death, 2) take criminal out back and shoot him.

The facts are that in death penalty cases the burden is strongly on the State to prove, producing more costs including witnesses, experts, jury selection and housing, investigations, etc etc.

[cybrid 0]

But thats still not more than a lifer, because they cost millions, not hundreds of thousands. $40,000 per year in Canada, thats $1 000 000 for a full 25 years sentance, imagine the cost in the US where life literaly means life.