Random discussion about mods for resting vs native implementation

[seba1976 98]

I very glad BIS is going to include TPWCAS and VTS Weapon Resting in the engine. Seriously guys, you're talking as if those features were not being used, all the time, by everybody. No one dispute it will be great to have them in vanilla, at engine level, but the features were available through simple mods since the beginning - and maybe in a better, more practical, and comprehensive way, than what is gonna come out of this.

Edited February 20, 2015 by seba1976
The title of this topic was written by a moderator, not me. And the topic was also started by a moderator, not me.

[2nd ranger 282]

I've never used those mods. I don't like using mods. I'm probably not alone. Don't try to speak for everybody. Perhaps you shouldn't be so negative about BIS adding great new features that have topped alot of players' wishlists for a long time.

[Greenfist 1863]

Right now there are 14 894 people playing. 8729 of them on publicly listed servers.

369 of them are on servers which allow VTS, 13 with TPWCAS.

So, in fact, almost nobody uses those mods. At least online. Only 4 percents of players.

I think it's safe to say that the percentage of off-line players isn't significantly higher.

[chortles 263]

I very glad BIS is going to include TPWCAS and VTS Weapon Resting in the engine.

You're wildly off the mark here.

IMO what the devs seem to have planned is even better than VBS. I don't think that vbs ai are actually effected by near missed/ overwhelming fire are they?

Whether or not they actually were was besides the point as far as the complainers a year ago were concerned, all they were concerned about was "having the ability to order ai to do it". :rolleyes:

For single player the VBS3 command would be nice, yes. Guess my point is the command is worthless without the effects.

I agree that in players-vs-AI co-op the command menu is irrelevant, but on the other hand, for SP and players-commanding-AI-vs-AI co-op, without the command you're missing out on "tell(ing) them where to lay down fire" and thus the ability to 'consciously'/'intentionally' achieve the effects.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

I very glad BIS is going to include TPWCAS and VTS Weapon Resting in the engine. Seriously guys, you're talking as if those features were not being used, all the time, by everybody. No one dispute it will be great to have them in vanilla, at engine level, but the features were available through simple mods since the beginning - and maybe in a better, more practical, and comprehensive way, than what is gonna come out of this.

all those mods are hacky solutions

[enex 11]

Implementations for each are different.BIS programmers made algorithem that detects objects where weapon can be rested, while modders

made scripts to allow weapon resting behaviour.

It's important that we give props to people who made resting purely because of sweat and hours that they

had to put it to make it reality.In the same breath it's good to have weapon resting developed by bohemians

so solution is built in engine and lightweight.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I still don't see the point of this topic. What "lies" ?

[Greenfist 1863]

I still don't see the point of this topic. What "lies" ?

These messages were a part of the AI discussion thread. Someone thought it was too offtopic, moved them to a separate thread and gave it a funny title. :D

[brightcandle 114]

Having seen how it works I like the fact that unlike other resting mods there isn't a key to press. That is great. However what I feel it is missing is an indication of when the weapon is actually resting. AGM resting gives this nice audible and visual note that you have the weapon rested and this is quite important because you don't want to find out the detection isn't working or you have moved just a little too far when you start firing. Otherwise I am pleased its going into the vanilla game, the less mods we have to run the better as they add quite a bit of load time, tend to degrade performance and as a whole tend to be pretty buggy.

I suspect what will probably happen however is it will miss the mark for most milsim communities and a spate of mods will come out to fix it anyway. Its not like either of these features is new, its incorporating something we have used for over a year. I hope the marksman DLC as a whole is great and we use it, but based on the previous changes there is every chance we'll still mod it, especially if weapon sway is anything to go by.

Edited February 20, 2015 by BrightCandle

[Nicholas 5]

I am estatic that they have added all these features such as sling loading, shooting from vehicles and soon weapon resting and bipods. I've tried the weapon resting in the development branch and it works wonderfully.

I've never used those mods. I don't like using mods. I'm probably not alone. Don't try to speak for everybody. Perhaps you shouldn't be so negative about BIS adding great new features that have topped alot of players' wishlists for a long time.

I don't like using mods either. I like everything to be uniform and of the same quality so I don't even bother with mods. I've tinkered with mods, but most of the time they're not as good as the vanilla units/features.

[serjames 357]

Wow I honestly don't know how you guys play without mods... must be like banging your head against a table for fun...

If it's at all because you're unsure about how to get them setup? Please PM I feel it is a DUTY to show you how much MORE fun mods make this game..... Maps, weapons, uniforms, AI mods, Vehicles..... sheesh If I had been running around jumping out of hunters with MX rifles since 2013 - I'd be suicidal for sure

;)

[Jona33 51]

Wow I honestly don't know how you guys play without mods... must be like banging your head against a table for fun...

If it's at all because you're unsure about how to get them setup? Please PM I feel it is a DUTY to show you how much MORE fun mods make this game..... Maps, weapons, uniforms, AI mods, Vehicles..... sheesh If I had been running around jumping out of hunters with MX rifles since 2013 - I'd be suicidal for sure

;)

You can get by happily without content mods, I don't see how people get by without some gameplay ones though (Mainly VTS resting, but that can now change. :D).

[ProfTournesol 956]

Everybody plays as he wants to. I'm only playing historical mods, and SciFi ones. But vanilla included features are what we do expect from BIS.

[mr burns 133]

Right now there are 14 894 people playing. 8729 of them on publicly listed servers.

369 of them are on servers which allow VTS, 13 with TPWCAS.

So, in fact, almost nobody uses those mods. At least online. Only 4 percents of players.

I think it's safe to say that the percentage of off-line players isn't significantly higher.

Just checked my A3 Installation, there is vts_weaponresting in one of the folders.

The problem is this: Using weaponresting = yes, using ArmA3 = no.

all those mods are hacky solutions

hahahaha

How do you think BI goes around doing things? Fairy dust?

Last time i checked even the intro splashscreens were called from a .sqs file (SQS, not even .sqf!) :D

Edited February 20, 2015 by Mr Burns

[Nicholas 5]

Wow I honestly don't know how you guys play without mods... must be like banging your head against a table for fun...

If it's at all because you're unsure about how to get them setup? Please PM I feel it is a DUTY to show you how much MORE fun mods make this game..... Maps, weapons, uniforms, AI mods, Vehicles..... sheesh If I had been running around jumping out of hunters with MX rifles since 2013 - I'd be suicidal for sure

;)

I'm well aware of how to set up mods, it's been the same exact way since OFP. I just can't stand the vast variation in quality from one mod/addon to another. There are absolutely no standards when it comes to mods, besides personal standards, which often aren't my standards. I prefer everything to be on par, as far as quality, with the vanilla version of the game, not less, not more. I prefer everything to be uniform, or flush with the vanilla game. That's why I don't bother with mods. Even basic things like the way that some people structure the menu system in the editor when selecting their units bothers me. OCD.

Maybe if there was a "community standard" that everyone followed, it wouldn't be so bad.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Nicholas

[seba1976 98]

I still don't see the point of this topic. What "lies" ?

I don't either. Last thing I know, is I made a comment where it belonged, and now I've apparently opened a new topic, with a title I did not write. "It's Alice in fucking wonderland" :) I've been "redacted" apparently, and someone used my name to post word I didn't said.

[Nicholas 5]

I don't either. Last thing I know, is I made a comment where it belonged, and now I've apparently opened a new topic, with a title I did not write. "It's Alice in fucking wonderland" :) I've been "redacted" apparently, and someone used my name to post word I didn't said.

Don't worry, the same thing has happened to me as well. Really wish they'd ask you before just creating a new topic...

[froggyluv 2136]

Title = F#cking Hilarious.

Always better to have feautures baked into engine than scripted i suppose. Mods are great but also tend to not be calibrated with official missions or each other which can build a lifelong case of BalancingModuLitus.

[Jackal326 1182]

Don't worry, the same thing has happened to me as well. Really wish they'd ask you before just creating a new topic...

I think maybe its to point out how stupid the original post is and a new thread just highlights such things more clearly...

[seba1976 98]

I think maybe its to point out how stupid the original post is and a new thread just highlights such things more clearly...

To point out, as a side comment, that everyone involved was acting as if they were ignoring those features were already present, stable, and available since a long time in the modding community, didn't sound stupid to me.

Putting a title to this topic, that were not my words at all, you think that's OK?

[Defunkt 431]

The title may not have been yours but it's a pretty accurate appraisal of your post. I've not used those mods, native implementations which are available in every game on every multi-player server are a vastly better option.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

This should to be locked I think. The disparity between the thread title and the initial post makes it obvious it's a split post, and without a context it's worthless to discuss, especially with the clickbait title from whoever split it out.

Yeah, the features are there, but such features being in the base game can't be regarded as anything but positive I believe.

[Jackal326 1182]

Putting a title to this topic, that were not my words at all, you think that's OK?

Didn't say it was OK, its not our place to judge. If it concerns you that much, report the thread, and "as the original author" (apparently), you can have the thread locked and maybe deleted. Its not for us to question the moderation of the forums (its in the rules).

[-Coulum- 35]

To point out, as a side comment, that everyone involved was acting as if they were ignoring those features were already present, stable, and available since a long time in the modding community, didn't sound stupid to me.

Putting a title to this topic, that were not my words at all, you think that's OK?

I'm pretty sure most on these forums are aware of the modded versions of these features. However, for me, those are not optimal. Yes you could use them and they did add alot, but there are many reasons why vanilla implementation is such a big deal. One is that it is constantly maintained by the devs. It is therefore much less likely to encounter problems or bugs. Next is that everyone can now use these features. It is a standard. So when you discuss arma everyone is on the same page. Not: well if you play arma with x and y and z then you can do a, b c. You can hop on any server and use the feature. And probably the biggest reason is the performance and consistency of it being ingrained into the engine rather than being slapped on through a mod. Take TPWCAS for example. Yes it is efficiently designed to scale itself to maintain performance. The devs did great work with it. But the truth is that when shit hits the fan, the system does lag or doesn't work as it does in less intensive situations. Thats not because the mod is bad but simply because there is only so much you can via modding. Same goes for most any mod. JSRS, Blastcore. Put it into more intense situations and you have laggy sounds, effects etc. Of course this happens in vanilla as well, but it takes alot more to reach that point.

I am by no means trying to bad mouth any mods / maker. All the mentioned mods are absolutely amazing. But having these features integrated into the engine has many benefits. And on top of this, mod makers can still use these new features to build even better mods.

So all in all, whether there were mods that had these features before or not, it is absolutely fantastic news that they are being integrated into the engine now (the features that is, not the mods themselves)

title of this thread isn't exactly fair to the OP imo...

Edited February 20, 2015 by -Coulum-

[chortles 263]

Now that the title's been edited by Dwarden, I wanted to respond to one more bit of the OP...

No one dispute it will be great to have them in vanilla, at engine level, but the features were available through simple mods since the beginning - and maybe in a better, more practical, and comprehensive way, than what is gonna come out of this.

I can rebut this: Does anyone else remember the time that pettka said "why would we even bother to spend our resources on something if we could just say "Hey, use ACRE for that"?"