Arma Reflecting Today's Modern Day Warfare Tomorrow

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

...but when it comes to a good mil/sim experience I always turn to A2CO, modded of course. Just for that whole modern day'ish war-gaming feel, plus the mod/addons/scripts etc we use, all run really well with that format.

All completely achievable using a mere handful of mods (at most 10-13gb depending on selections) in Arma 3.

Something I find quite amusing was that despite delivering the modern day content that so many people vocally desire in Operation Arrowhead most of the mil-sim communities out there went and got community mods that added slightly different versions to replace the very same weapons that were already in the default game. How many M4 or AK packs were there for A2 despite there being an abudance of variants of those very rifles already in game?

I'm glad that BIS branched out and created (the majority of) new models of weapons/vehicles we've not used before on a map we've not seen before because everyone who's a fan of the game, mil-sim communities especially, will eventually end up with modded versions of the game using modern day content while binning vanilla content because it doesn't meet their rivet-counting fetish or whatever reason they feel the need to moan about.

[chrisb 196]

All completely achievable using a mere handful of mods (at most 10-13gb depending on selections) in Arma 3.

.

Unfortunately that's not true, your basing it off the fact you use mod/addons/scripts etc probably most from here or AH.

That is, as I said, the problem with the narrow view of the player base here, there is much more within groups out there, that are specific to a game, developed for that game. Those things you can't simply walk away from, especially when they give you a much greater gaming experience. Doesn't revolve around graphics, lighting etc or the perceived fault's in the movement system from the previous game/s. Certainly not for me anyway, it revolves around game-play, the better mil/sim I/we can achieve. That unfortunately isn't with A3.

We use AI a lot in our gaming, it needs to be very good (really good), fairly independent and pretty reliable, nothing in A3 approaches that level, unfortunately. But there are many other things too, not to mention terrains that make up our gaming world. Its a whole different subject. A3 is years behind A2CO and will remain so for some time, 'content wise'. But that is to be expected.

Just fact, sorry to dim your view, but yours is a simplistic way to look at this series.. There is a lot of groups playing out there that run their own stuff. A3 doesn't fit the bill for that type of realistic gaming, not talking movement, graphics but content and the way the game can be changed to fit the gaming group. A3 isn't there yet, it may become that in a few years, who knows. Not for now though.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Unfortunately that's not true, your basing it off the fact you use mod/addons/scripts etc probably most from here or AH.

That is, as I said, the problem with the narrow view of the player base here, there is much more within groups out there, that are specific to a game, developed for that game. Those things you can't simply walk away from, especially when they give you a much greater gaming experience. Doesn't revolve around graphics, lighting etc or the perceived fault's in the movement system from the previous game/s. Certainly not for me anyway, it revolves around game-play, the better mil/sim I/we can achieve. That unfortunately isn't with A3.

We use AI a lot in our gaming, it needs to be very good (really good), fairly independent and pretty reliable, nothing in A3 approaches that level, unfortunately. But there are many other things too, not to mention terrains that make up our gaming world. Its a whole different subject. A3 is years behind A2CO and will remain so for some time, 'content wise'. But that is to be expected.

Just fact, sorry to dim your view, but yours is a simplistic way to look at this series.. There is a lot of groups playing out there that run their own stuff. A3 doesn't fit the bill for that type of realistic gaming, not talking movement, graphics but content and the way the game can be changed to fit the gaming group. A3 isn't there yet, it may become that in a few years, who knows. Not for now though.

Perhaps I'm miss-reading your post but the general feeling I'm getting is that you believe it is possible to acheive a mil-sim level envrionment with mods in Arma 2 but somehow it is not yet possible in Arma 3?

I'd need clarification before I can address your post. :)

[Sandy* 10]

We use AI a lot in our gaming, it needs to be very good (really good), fairly independent and pretty reliable, nothing in A3 approaches that level, unfortunately

My group's still mostly been playing A2 due to having so much more content mods, but we're slowly transitioning. This one I don't understand though. The vanilla AI is the same, with A3 having minor improvements. Can you give examples of these majorly important A2 AI mods or scripts you describe, that haven't been ported or remade, or lack an equivalent in Arma 3? Everything we had in A2 regarding the AI works the same in 3 except performance for huge numbers which we avoid anyway.

[lugiahua 26]

My biggest two complains about Arma3 are lack of vehicle and weapon variation, and lack of civilian interaction.

1. While the game is setting in near future, they totally lack of "old stuff".

You would assume that AKs and BMPs would still be used by then, especially by FIA or other militia type factions.

I wouldn't mind if they just recycle assets from Arma2 with upgraded features.

BTW, why were shotguns and F-35 totally eliminated in the final product from early build?

2. Arma3 really need civilians in campaigns...compared to Arma2, the campaign feels empty without civilian interactions.

[drebin052 323]

1. While the game is setting in near future, they totally lack of "old stuff".

You would assume that AKs and BMPs would still be used by then, especially by FIA or other militia type factions.

The FIA are guerrillas, not an organised army. Having access to just technicals and trucks perfectly suits their hit-and-run design in contrast to the AAF which isn't a militia but an actual army supported by NATO/CSAT.

Altis is a former British colony in the Armaverse and it would be strange for there to be AK derivatives when no other countries apart from Cyprus (which is no where near Limnos) in the Aegean region use them to begin with.

BTW, why were shotguns and F-35 totally eliminated in the final product from early build?

The F-35 was always stated to have been a placeholder.

[Sandy* 10]

The FIA are guerrillas, not an organised army. Having access to just technicals and trucks perfectly suits their hit-and-run design in contrast to the AAF which isn't a militia but an actual army supported by NATO/CSAT.

Altis is a former British colony in the Armaverse and it would be strange for there to be AK derivatives when no other countries apart from Cyprus (which is no where near Limnos) in the Aegean region use them to begin with.

It would've however suited AAF much better to have older vehicles upgraded with better optics for example, instead having only relatively new ground assets.

[five_seven5-7 56]

no one wants another "Charlie Hebdo" event especially BI, after the events in Greece soil.

Or happening other mistake involving BI:

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/itv-accused-of-using-arma-2-game-footage-in-ira-doc-1029776

Edited February 6, 2015 by Five_Seven5-7

[chrisb 196]

Perhaps I'm miss-reading your post but the general feeling I'm getting is that you believe it is possible to acheive a mil-sim level envrionment with mods in Arma 2 but somehow it is not yet possible in Arma 3?

I'd need clarification before I can address your post. :)

No need to address my post. You replied using a general observation that achieving the way I or we as a group play, is possible in A3. I just assured you it wasn't. Unfortunately the mod I use for AI was pulled for A3 and is only available for A2CO now. That plus many terrains we use are not adapted for A3 to use with the AI mod. Plus there is lots of content still to be ported and some will never get ported over.

But we're wandering off topic. Sorry to the OP for that, from my part.

(my sig is a little misleading, the logo thing is taken from their members site, I can't change it. But it is only for A2CO now)

[drebin052 323]

It would've however suited AAF much better to have older vehicles upgraded with better optics for example, instead having only relatively new ground assets.

But none of the AAF's ground assets are relatively "new"...

By 2035 the Mora (Warrior) would be a 47 year old IFV design. The Strider (Fennek) would be 34 years and the Gorgon (Pandur II) would be a 31 year old APC. Zamaks (Kamaz-6560) would be 30 year old trucks while the Kuma (Leopard 2) would be a 25 year old tank. In fact, the only things that the AAF have that are "new" would be the drones but even they aren't exactly vehicles you would call "new" in 2035 either (the Crusher/MQ-9/Parrot are all from the first decade of this century).

Edited February 6, 2015 by drebin052

[chrisb 196]

My group's still mostly been playing A2 due to having so much more content mods, but we're slowly transitioning. This one I don't understand though. The vanilla AI is the same, with A3 having minor improvements. Can you give examples of these majorly important A2 AI mods or scripts you describe, that haven't been ported or remade, or lack an equivalent in Arma 3? Everything we had in A2 regarding the AI works the same in 3 except performance for huge numbers which we avoid anyway.

Prior to the mod I use for AI now. I used a mix of GL3/4,SLX,Zeus plus some scripts etc for AI in A2. That mix doesn't work well in A3, in fact it doesn't really work at all to the degree it did in A2. Still, all that is way behind what I/we use now anyway, which is one complete mod with no need to mix or match. Also it fits perfectly to our game-play style/type.

Wandering off topic again, sorry OP. I'll stop now..:o

[MrSanchez 243]

Prior to the mod I use for AI now. I used a mix of GL3/4,SLX,Zeus plus some scripts etc for AI in A2. That mix doesn't work well in A3, in fact it doesn't really work at all to the degree it did in A2. Still, all that is way behind what I/we use now anyway, which is one complete mod with no need to mix or match. Also it fits perfectly to our game-play style/type.

Wandering off topic again, sorry OP. I'll stop now..:o

Oh you...

Looking through this thread - this seems like the monthly bitch-thread (pardon my language). I always like reading through such threads, great for getting to know everyone's different standpoints and their arguments.

Some end up locked however...don't take it too far ;)

Kind regards,

Sanchez

[Sandy* 10]

Prior to the mod I use for AI now. I used a mix of GL3/4,SLX,Zeus plus some scripts etc for AI in A2. That mix doesn't work well in A3, in fact it doesn't really work at all to the degree it did in A2. Still, all that is way behind what I/we use now anyway, which is one complete mod with no need to mix or match. Also it fits perfectly to our game-play style/type.

Which specific features exactly are missing from the wide array of community made AI enhancements for Arma 3? I admit I never used Group Link and such in A2, but most of the features were present in other people's works already back in the day, and so they are in Arma 3. Althought you say that "nothing in A3 approaches that level" and talk about wanting one complete mod, it reflects that you just haven't bothered looking for replacements and putting together the perfect mix. :confused:

Just fact, sorry to dim your view, but yours is a simplistic way to look at this series.. There is a lot of groups playing out there that run their own stuff. A3 doesn't fit the bill for that type of realistic gaming, not talking movement, graphics but content and the way the game can be changed to fit the gaming group. A3 isn't there yet, it may become that in a few years, who knows. Not for now though.

So in the end, this isn't about A3 missing mods vital for milsimming, you're only criticizing it because some very specific niche things your group likes aren't present, and 3rd party modders/scripters aren't catering to your needs. If you want something uniquely fitting for your gaming group, why don't you work on it yourself? Many groups do.

[lugiahua 26]

The FIA are guerrillas, not an organised army. Having access to just technicals and trucks perfectly suits their hit-and-run design in contrast to the AAF which isn't a militia but an actual army supported by NATO/CSAT.

Altis is a former British colony in the Armaverse and it would be strange for there to be AK derivatives when no other countries apart from Cyprus (which is no where near Limnos) in the Aegean region use them to begin with.

The F-35 was always stated to have been a placeholder.

So were Chedaki, NAPA and Takistani militia...yet they all have limit access to vehicles even armors.

1. The background story states that FIA was splinter from the former military after coup, they should at least have some light armors.

And let's face it, the current FIA has less asset and variables than Taki or Chedaki from Arma2, the later two at least have recoiless gun, Grad and ZSU on trucks...

FIA only got machine gun pickup, even Somalian militia and pirates has more fire power than they do :p

2. AK rifles have been in a lot of countries that do not use adopt them or allow gun ownership.

If FIA was truly a low tech guerrillas force as you said, they would resort to any weapons they could smuggle in, obvious including AK, AR and L85s...

same applies to things like RPG, AT4, M72.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Lugiahua

[MrSanchez 243]

So were Chedaki, NAPA and Takistani militia...yet they all have limit access to vehicles even armors.

1. The background story states that FIA was splinter from the former military after coup, they should at least have some light armors.

And let's face it, the current FIA has less asset and variables than Taki or Chedaki from Arma2, the later two at least have recoiless gun, Grad and ZSU on trucks...

FIA only got machine gun pickup, even Somalian militia and pirates has more fire power than they do :p

2. AK rifles have been in a lot of countries that do not use adopt them or allow gun ownership.

If FIA was truly a low tech guerrillas force as you said, they would resort to any weapons they could smuggle in, obvious including AK, AR and L85s...

same applies to things like RPG, AT4, M72.

1. Somalian militia/pirates are actually well-trained and well organized. They gain all their firepower from hijacked cargo ships full of weaponry from armsdealers that tried to export some gunz.

2. Unfortunately in 2035 - There exists no such thing as an avtomat kalashnikov (AK)....all Kalashnikovs in the world were vaporized in an alien attack that happened in 2017, a sensitive topic.

Sorry for my sarcasm but I agree with your statement however it is useless to say this now, as the game has been released for a long time and there is very likely not going to be an expansion this year and maybe next year that would change any of this.

The modding community is there to fill these 'holes', fortunately, but yeah it would've been nice if the FIA had more firepower, but it's useless to say now..

At least we have mods..

Kind regards,

Sanchez

[devilslayersbane 28]

1. Somalian militia/pirates are actually well-trained and well organized. They gain all their firepower from hijacked cargo ships full of weaponry from armsdealers that tried to export some gunz.

2. Unfortunately in 2035 - There exists no such thing as an avtomat kalashnikov (AK)....all Kalashnikovs in the world were vaporized in an alien attack that happened in 2017, a sensitive topic.

Sorry for my sarcasm but I agree with your statement however it is useless to say this now, as the game has been released for a long time and there is very likely not going to be an expansion this year and maybe next year that would change any of this.

The modding community is there to fill these 'holes', fortunately, but yeah it would've been nice if the FIA had more firepower, but it's useless to say now..

At least we have mods..

Kind regards,

Sanchez

It's not about what the FIA has access to, as they've had the firepower to take out entire convoys, or they did at one point. However, under the guidance and technological prowess of CSAT and NATO combined, it would make sense that the FIA ended up getting rid of all of their armor as it just became too cumbersome to hide. As far as the AK series goes, considering the lack of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 ammunition in region and the abundance of 5.56 weaponry due to the main military force there using 5.56, it would make sense to mostly use 5.56 weapons. That way ammo and equipment raids end up being much more productive for the FIA. When you look at it through the lens of the guerilla's instead of the lens of "I want it to be this way because that's how I think it should be" then you begin to understand the choices of the factions within BI's created ArmA3verse

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

It's not about what the FIA has access to, as they've had the firepower to take out entire convoys, or they did at one point. However, under the guidance and technological prowess of CSAT and NATO combined, it would make sense that the FIA ended up getting rid of all of their armor as it just became too cumbersome to hide. As far as the AK series goes, considering the lack of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 ammunition in region and the abundance of 5.56 weaponry due to the main military force there using 5.56, it would make sense to mostly use 5.56 weapons. That way ammo and equipment raids end up being much more productive for the FIA. When you look at it through the lens of the guerilla's instead of the lens of "I want it to be this way because that's how I think it should be" then you begin to understand the choices of the factions within BI's created ArmA3verse

A man after my own heart.

Also don't forget that CSAT and AAF have been conducting a counter-insurgency operation against the FIA for quite some time at the start of the campaign so who's to say that the FIA didn't have more valuable assets but then lost them?

[lugiahua 26]

East bloc weapons were not adopt by Philippine, Taiwan, Japan, or Korea military, yet rebels and criminals there use them in large scale by mean of arms smuggling.

If FIA was truly a group of desperate militia force as you said, they would likely smuggle whatever weapons they could acquire, they would include a wide range of outdated or even civilian weapons.

Even the game itself supports this view, numerous missions mentioned that FIA got their weapons through international arms smuggle.

It is still doesn't make sense how FIA have latest MANPAD, yet complete lack of less sophisticated weapons like recoilless gun or AA weapons.

My argument is simple: While FIA was described as a guerrilla forces, their weapons were too uniformed and lack of variation to look authentic.

[drebin052 323]

So were Chedaki, NAPA and Takistani militia...yet they all have limit access to vehicles even armors.

ChDKZ and NAPA are in a former WarPact country, while Takistan was also supported by the USSR, just like with the real life Afghanistan. They're both in landlocked countries that border Russia, so it's not a stretch to see them using old Soviet hardware when you see it happening in real life. As opposed to Altis which is a small island nation that's pretty far away from any mainland.

1. The background story states that FIA was splinter from the former military after coup, they should at least have some light armors.

And let's face it, the current FIA has less asset and variables than Taki or Chedaki from Arma2, the later two at least have recoiless gun, Grad and ZSU on trucks...

The AAF doesn't use Grads or ZSUs. How do you salvage non-existent equipment for use to begin with? Also why would guerillas that rely on hit-and-run tactics use armoured vehicles?

2. AK rifles have been in a lot of countries that do not use adopt them or allow gun ownership.

If FIA was truly a low tech guerrillas force as you said, they would resort to any weapons they could smuggle in, obvious including AK, AR and L85s...

same applies to things like RPG, AT4, M72.

Why would the FIA go through the trouble (and cost) of smuggling a weapon system that isn't even available in the region to begin with, just to fulfil your stereotype of "guerilla = must use AK variant"? The "latest" missile launchers like RPG-32s and Spikes are used because they can steal them from CSAT and the AAF.

And AKs being used by...Japanese and Korean rebels? What rebels...? You've also forgotten the regional differences as well. Countries like Vietnam and China have large stockpiles of AK copies, so it's not far fetched to see them being used by guerilla movements in the Philippines.

Edited February 8, 2015 by drebin052

[gibonez 18]

Let's be honest the only reason why the FIA use spikes and rpg-32s is because its easier to copy the assets and use them in all 3 factions.

Even 100 years from now people in nearly every conflict will still be using Ak pattern rifles, recoiless rifles, and Rpg 7s.

[drebin052 323]

Let's be honest the only reason why the FIA use spikes and rpg-32s is because its easier to copy the assets and use them in all 3 factions.

True. ;)

Even 100 years from now people in nearly every conflict will still be using Ak pattern rifles, recoiless rifles, and Rpg 7s.

Again just because this stereotype applies to guerilla movements in Asian or African countries that actively use the AK, that does not mean that Altis (a former British colony no less) would be suddenly given an influx of outdated Russian hardware...

[Sandy* 10]

You also have to remember that many of the assets seem to have been from the original planned setting for the game, and ended getting distributed quite randomly to between the factions/sides. Altis was supposed to be the real Limnos, and instead of CSAT there was the actual Iran that had annexed Israel. So FIA's TAR-21s and NATO's Merkavas were likely OPFOR assets. Whatever equipment BIS considered for BLUFOR and Independents back in the day probably made a lot more sense.

[lugiahua 26]

Again just because this stereotype applies to guerilla movements in Asian or African countries that actively use the AK, that does not mean that Altis (a former British colony no less) would be suddenly given an influx of outdated Russian hardware...

Only that it's neighbor Turkey uses AK style rifle, while AR and G3 pattern rifles used by both Greece and Turkey...

And I can't believe that people already forgot Aum Shinrikyo in Japan, they even smuggled armed Mi-17 into the country.

[gibonez 18]

You also have to remember that many of the assets seem to have been from the original planned setting for the game, and ended getting distributed quite randomly to between the factions/sides. Altis was supposed to be the real Limnos, and instead of CSAT there was the actual Iran that had annexed Israel. So FIA's TAR-21s and NATO's Merkavas were likely OPFOR assets. Whatever equipment BIS considered for BLUFOR and Independents back in the day probably made a lot more sense.

That would have made for an awesome game.

Why did they back off from that.

[drebin052 323]

Only that it's neighbor Turkey uses AK style rifle, while AR and G3 pattern rifles used by both Greece and Turkey...

And I can't believe that people already forgot Aum Shinrikyo in Japan, they even smuggled armed Mi-17 into the country.

Neither the G3 or the MKEK are modelled after the AK. And the AS is a cult, not an insurgency.

Why did they back off from that.

Same reason why the coilgun T-100 got canned.