AI shooting through hills, houses and walls - Impressions of the game

[martin_lee 33]

The theory that AI can see through terrain has already been disproved multiple times with tests and the like, also in my 700+ hours of ArmA 3 I have never, ever seen AI shoot through the terrain, and have never seen or heard of it happening before.

+1. They saw you run behind a bush, they will shoot at that bush.

[eymerich 11]

He's not calling you a liar, he's disagreeing, i.e. saying you're probably wrong. And frankly, so am I.

I've never witnessed the AI seeing through solid terrain, nor have I seen any proof of that by other players. In most cases which may seem like the AI is spotting or shooting through terrain, the AI has seen you before you enter the cover and starts shooting at your general direction where they think you are, or they're seeing some very small part of you even though you can't see them. If the bullets really do go through terrain then we have very serious problem. Or maybe this is an issue with terrain grid detail? You know, when distant objects are floating because the ground they're on isn't rendered? Maybe the AI sees different terrain grid than you? I don't know.

And the AI generally can't see through buildings and vegetation. Those models have visual geometries which obscure the AI's line of sight. Although in some rare occasions the buildings have "leaks" in their models, so especially when the AI is already aware of your presence, seeing a glimpse of you through these holes is enough for them to engage you. And they will keep firing at the position where they predict you are if they see you enter a cover, even though it completely blocks their LOS. And they will keep shooting if their bullets will penetrate the obstacle. This is exactly what a human player would do too.

In addition, often there are tiny cracks between two objects, like concrete fences which consist of multiple segments lined up; the two models don't overlap and correctly block the line of sight. So while it's impossible for a human to detect someone through these cracks, the skilled AI will have no trouble.

Also the bushes are tricky. Their view blocking geometry is most likely just a simple box in the thickest center. Hence their outmost semi-transparent branches will make a target behind them invisible to human eye, but AI will clearly see a small piece of you and start shooting at it.

And the AI does not have eyes on the back of the head. Their field of view is ridiculously high and their hearing is impeccable, but you can still easily sneak up behind them undetected, at least at a decent distance. And at night you can move pretty close right in front of them.

The spotting and accuracy can be adjusted with AI skill settings, but it usually makes the AI either superhuman or totally blind, deaf and stupid.

I agree, the system is flawed, partly even completely broken, but not as badly as you make it sound, in my opinion. :)

Sorry but Ai see through grass (in chernarus was a serious issue) and, if i am not mistaken, this issue was addressed by a dev (pettka - again if i am not mistaken) on this forum (edit) about arma3 (stop edit). Can't remember the discussion but it was a few mont ago....

About hitting ground I have never experimented such issue, but for sure Ai is too superhuman. I have to say that the new skill level is a big step forward in the right direction in my opinion...

[Greenfist 1863]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about grass. That's completely separate system.

If the target is on terrain defined as grassy, AI will have harder time detecting it. Other than that AI ignores the grass completely. It doesn't stop AI from shooting while prone in high grass for example, which is very annoying.

[chrisb 196]

I think its fair that we choose what we hide in carefully. Open grass land, i.e. the lower grass is not for hiding. But undergrowth/scrubland type longer weed's etc are o.k. But even then you have to choose carefully.

Do ai really see that much through longer grass/weeds, not for me here in A2CO on Chernarus, using the mod mix I use. This is not vanilla ai in the video, but I can use this type of scrubland weeds, for concealment. Even so, its not great unless its evening or night really, this is morning just after 9.00am.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQYyY1V-VzE

[strelnikoff 2]

He's not calling you a liar, he's disagreeing, i.e. saying you're probably wrong. And frankly, so am I.

You can disagree all you want, can say I'm wrong, but fact remains I still died and there was no AI anywhere in line of sight and no other enemy AI unit within 600m. You can draw any sort of conclusions you want from that, as will I. :p

You know, when distant objects are floating because the ground they're on isn't rendered? Maybe the AI sees different terrain grid than you? I don't know.

Possible. Or maybe there were some issues with the rendering of the terrain and it wasn't as bullet-resistant as it should've been. Fact is, I died and there were no other suspects.

And the AI generally can't see through buildings and vegetation.

Um, yes, they do. Their ability was very noticable in A2 for example on Chernarus. And through buildings... does that mean in your opinion everyone that has, in this and other threads, confirmed they were spotted and attacked by enemy through walls even though they had not been in enemy's LoS before that, is wrong?

and the AI does not have eyes on the back of the head. Their field of view is ridiculously high

Yes, *nods vehemently in agreement*, 360 degrees. Yes, I would call that ridiculously high. :)

and their hearing is impeccable, but you can still easily sneak up behind them undetected, at least at a decent distance.... snipped... but not as badly as you make it sound, in my opinion. :)

Your reply comes across like you've taken on the duty of disproving and negating everything everyone else, who has had issues with AI, has ever said on this and other threads. ;-)

It's a tough one, one I don't envy you, so let me wish you the best of luck and happy winter solstice holidays. ;-)

[Rydygier 1309]

You can draw any sort of conclusions you want from that

Well, my conclusion will be, if that happened once to one player, then OK, acknowledged. Since it was once for one person only (I pressume - no confirmation from anyone else so far), it isn't AI problem anymore. So perhaps let's focus on AI problems affecting all the time many players.

Yes, *nods vehemently in agreement*, 360 degrees. Yes, I would call that ridiculously high.

As for me, I'm able to sneak from behind an AI without detection in bright, no fog day as close as I want. Tested that on 1.36 stable. Difficulty: regular. AI skill customized to 0.35 in configuration, editor bar maxed. It was more, I expected. When closer than 14 meters - AI's knowledge factor start to raise up to around 0.3, what makes him slowly scan horizon, but I can still reach his feets without full detection. Quite funny it was in fact. For AI maxed in configuration it's similar, but below 3 or 2 meters knowledge raises above 1, he detects me then and hostile reaction begins.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Rydygier

[Greenfist 1863]

Um, yes, they do. Their ability was very noticable in A2 for example on Chernarus. And through buildings... does that mean in your opinion everyone that has, in this and other threads, confirmed they were spotted and attacked by enemy through walls even though they had not been in enemy's LoS before that, is wrong?

I'm saying that I haven't witnessed Arma 3 AI seeing through buildings and vegetation, except on very very rare occasions. Rare enough to make it look like a very minor issue to me.

Your reply comes across like you've taken on the duty of disproving and negating everything everyone else, who has had issues with AI, has ever said on this and other threads. ;-)

Well then you misunderstood me unfortunately. I only addressed the AI's x-ray vision, not claiming that AI is perfected and that everyone else is wrong about every issue regarding AI.

[roshnak 41]

Yes, *nods vehemently in agreement*, 360 degrees. Yes, I would call that ridiculously high. :)

Difficulty regular, skill 0.60, precision 0.50.

[rekrul 7]

The devs have already acknowledged that AI is not working as intended. I believe it's due to a lot of lacking documentation of old (orginal) code, combined with adjustments made later to take new elements and factors in to play. After all, it's was a simpler world back in OFP.

They probably need rework a helluva lot code to redo AI now.

By all means, I do hope they will. In BIS' recent video they claim to have doubled the manpower in their studio, but that might not help as Arma-series is the only product with an AI and I'm guessing most of their resources are spent on DayZ. Our last and only hope is that the VBS-team does, but sadly I think it's working more than adequate for them...

[goomer 10]

*snip*

He heard you.

[ProfTournesol 956]

He heard you.

I suppose his point was precisely that the AI has no "eyes in the back". And yes, AI heard him because he was walking standing up.

[roshnak 41]

Yes, my intention was to show that the AI cannot, in fact, see you when you are behind them.

Although, I will say that hearing probably shouldn't tell the AI what side you belong to, which I believe that it currently does. During the recording of that video, the AI heard me several times when I moved too aggressively and turned around while already shooting at me. Ideally, hearing (footsteps, at least) would only tell the AI that something is behind them, and they would have to turn around and see the target before learning its faction.

Edited December 24, 2014 by roshnak

[ZeroConfig 0]

Here it is September 2019 and Arma 3 AI's still have super human vision and aiming ability.

[Gunter Severloh 4054]

11 hours ago, ZeroConfig said:

Here it is September 2019 and Arma 3 AI's still have super human vision and aiming ability. 

So you resurrected an old thread from 2014, with what points in your statement to show that these issues exist?

Or are you just ranting because your frustrated with issues in your game?

• What tests have you done to demonstrate that the AI has super human vision and aiming ability?
• What are your settings for the AI in the game?
• What are you playing where you have experienced the AI having super vision and aiming ability?
• Any mods, or anything in what your playing that may boost the AI to such levels?

[anfo 118]

39 minutes ago, Gunter Severloh said:

So you resurrected an old thread from 2014, with what points in your statement to show that these issues exist?

Or are you just ranting because your frustrated with issues in your game?

• What tests have you done to demonstrate that the AI has super human vision and aiming ability?
• What are your settings for the AI in the game?
• What are you playing where you have experienced the AI having super vision and aiming ability?
• Any mods, or anything in what your playing that may boost the AI to such levels?

 

Agreed. Before I'm qualified to raise an issue with Arma 3, I make sure I go full vanilla, with an argument stopping script that allows me to see what the AI can or can't see.

 

[Gunter Severloh 4054]

Imo the vanilla AI is a base at which to play at if you wish, so i do agree they are a bit to aware and sharp however being that the game is a sandbox and is configurable,

if the AI's awareness or spotting ability is to high, and their aiming ability is to sharp then i would suggest to either use a code, or script to turn it down to levels

that would be believable or would work for you.

 

I would myself never play with base AI in the game in terms of their levels, so i usually use a couple types of code to dumb them down a bit,

for example a code i use often:

 

init.sqf

[] spawn 
	{
	while {true} do
		{
		sleep 10;

			{
			_x setSkill ["aimingspeed", 0.1];
			_x setSkill ["spotdistance", 0.2];
			_x setSkill ["aimingaccuracy", 0.2];
			_x setSkill ["aimingshake", 0.1];
			_x setSkill ["spottime", 0.1];
			_x setSkill ["spotdistance", 0.5];
			_x setSkill ["commanding", 0.2];
			_x setSkill ["general", 0.5];
			} 
		forEach allUnits;
		}
	};

Affects units already placed and units spawned in, those numbers are adjustable.

     There is also from one of my recent posts seen here ---->   LINK

   Where you can set the difficulty level for your mission.

 

You can also try this if AI is to accurate:

 

[dmarkwick 261]

I found, for my own preference, that turning down accuracy but allowing for high awareness gives a good play experience.

 

As for the do-they/don't-they AI experiences, as always a solid repro is the best evidence. Anecdotal evidence is not nothing, but it's also not useful, if you have time then setting up a scenario that displays the problem and putting that scenario up for download by others (or, a written precise step-by-step setup) will do far more revealing the problem than anything else.

 

Regarding grass - clutter has long been a problem for lots of people, you can level the playing field somewhat by disabling clutter, at the expense of visuals.

AI shooting players that are hidden - very variable in terms of anecdotal tales here. AI will remember where you were seen, and also what direction you were going when you were seen. They can also hear you. Don't be surprised to be shot behind a bush when you think you're hidden, you can only achieve hidden status by not being seen in the first place, and keeping quiet 🙂

AI shooting through terrain - never seen this personally. A repro is the best way to go here. As mentioned before, there's a possibility of AI regarding low-terrain fidelity vs the player seeing high terrain fidelity, but I've never seen anything like this personally.