AI too accurate

[infiltrator_2k 29]

Sorry, but as a British ex-infanteer I can honestly say that when playing at least the 'Infantry Showcase' it's bull as far as realism is concerned.

I've played A3 on-and-off since its Alpha launch, but when recently trying it infantry 'showcase' I can honestly say it bull given the accuracy of the Ai. I mean, I can't even cower behind a rock without being shot form some Ai dude from 150-200 meters away whist the Ai is in the stand-up position... That is utter bull!

How can anyone let alone a company charge money for a product that's so flawed?

[Alex-X-xSQ 10]

you hit ESC in game, goto settings, game, difficulty. AI skill to custom, ai skill to 1, ai aim to like 0.3-0.4, at disatnces, ai won't hit you so precise, the higher, the better will ai shoot at disatnces, just find your own perfect setting. While at close combat, they can still hit you as suppossed to do.

[Delta Hawk 1829]

Fastest way to making yourself sound overrated is starting off the post with "As a former (enter whatever title)". It's a video game. Seriously. Player and AI alike walk around during the day with NVGs on their helmet. If it was realistic, they'll be popping grunt candy and filing disability claims for neck problems. If you're expecting realism, you got the wrong game brother.

[OMAC 254]

That showcase is brutal, but can be beaten even with default AI accuracy at Veteran difficulty. AI accuracy has been reduced since the Alpha, which makes the mission slightly easier than it was before. There will be a lot of desperate cowering behind rocks while lobbing grenades and shooting your grenade launcher. Your entire squad will most likely be mowed down before you reach Girna. You could try abandoning your squad and head to top of ridge to north of village.

But the mission design is quite flawed, and is really a beta version/spoiler of Death Valley campaign mission (which is also quite difficult). IMO, a more satisfying battle in the same locale can be had with my new mission Just Another Day (see signature).

Try playing the Trial By Fire mission in Arma 2 on Veteran. That will also curl your hair, believe me.

[Guest]

[deleted]

[jshock 513]

I would just like to point out this is the most realistic game on the market (vanilla or modded), I would like anyone to point out this level of realism in COD or BF, it's just not there, this game is similar to those of actual simulations used by the real militaries to train their soldiers. This game isn't natively realistic, it's how you play it, how you make it your own.

[the_demongod 31]

It's really the mission itself. In my experience the AI in the Infantry Showcase is hopped up on meth or something, because they're absolutely superhuman. Without changing the difficulty settings I can go from doing just fine in one mission to being steamrolled by the AI in that showcase. I'm pretty sure it's just the mission.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

I've found an AI skill of 0.2 - 0.25/0.3 to be a good value which gives the impression of fighting trained soldiers which are under pressure (accuracy wise).

Might give it a shot.

[infiltrator_2k 29]

I don't know. I guess I was very frustrated last night. I thought I'd get the showcases done as I haven't played Arma for a few weeks. I create missions and understand the Ai's skill attributes, it's just I expected better from BIS given it's its showcase and is suppose to be an insight into Arma.

I understand there's a balance to be made as far as the Ai's skill is concerned, but last night's experience was ridiculous and extremely frustrating.

[andersson 285]

I find most showcases and tutorials frustrating. It seems they are assuming you are playing on a lower difficulty level. I play with as little UI as possible and no wp-markers and so on. Sometimes I have no clue where I am supposed to go, even on a small simple mission/stage, as, I assume, there should be some UI element pointing it out for me. Yes I read the mission briefing and check my map.

They should really have a good look at why OFP missions were so popular and why people talk about them still today. There you could read the briefing, look at the map and then you knew what to do, where and when. Regardless of difficulty and UI.

Last thing I tried was that shooting exercise where you run around like CQB. Took some time to figure out where to go and then on the stage itself I had quite some runs before I knew how to navigate through it. I never found the end. Maybe I'm stupid but there were many options where to walk and at the end it was in a more open environment I think? Nothing showed or hinted me what to do there.

I have also tried the showcase discussed here and I gave it up, as most showcases. It might be possible if you have UI help showing enemies, friendlies, waypoints and so on. But without it gets even harder.

The missions should be made with the hardest difficulty in mind and then people can turn on help to make it easier. IMHO.

[bigpickle 0]

Sorry, but as a British ex-infanteer I can honestly say that when playing at least the 'Infantry Showcase' it's bull as far as realism is concerned.

I've played A3 on-and-off since its Alpha launch, but when recently trying it infantry 'showcase' I can honestly say it bull given the accuracy of the Ai. I mean, I can't even cower behind a rock without being shot form some Ai dude from 150-200 meters away whist the Ai is in the stand-up position... That is utter bull!

How can anyone let alone a company charge money for a product that's so flawed?

Amen, My favourite bit is only being able to run 100m before wheezing and choking on my own saliva. My second favourite is not being able to run up or down hills, that one is super special.

[brightcandle 114]

Amen, My favourite bit is only being able to run 100m before wheezing and choking on my own saliva. My second favourite is not being able to run up or down hills, that one is super special.

Not to mention the gun sway that even the average 30 something airsofter can dramatically outperform. Then there is the recoil pattern which seems to match something a 5 year old would achieve and not a trained rifleman. Heck even I can control the recoil of an m4 in real life better than the dude in the game by a considerable margin.

This is why we need mods. They aren't mostly about adding stuff to the game, its about fixing all the stupid stuff BIS does in the name of "realism", which are the exact things that make it more game like. Its even stupid stuff that COD does like making suppressors do less damage and reduce the velocity of the rounds, that isn't even remotely reasonable. In the real world they marginally increase velocity and have no bearing on the accuracy or damage of the gun. Instead what they do is get hot and eventually they fail unless they get time to cool down. They also get in the way of doors making it harder to corner tightly in CQB. But BIS decided not to model any of that so instead they just throw in the COD mechanic of balancing it with damage. What makes this game realistic is a tonne of mods fixing all these bad calls.

BIS doesn't make the game the community plays, the community fixes all this stuff every release (Arma, Arma 2 and now Arma 3). We do the best we can to improve performance and we do it all with mostly just hindrance from BIS.

Edited November 30, 2014 by BrightCandle

[Jona33 51]

Not to mention the gun sway that even the average 30 something airsofter can dramatically outperform. Then there is the recoil pattern which seems to match something a 5 year old would achieve and not a trained rifleman. Heck even I can control the recoil of an m4 in real life better than the dude in the game by a considerable margin.

This is why we need mods. They aren't mostly about adding stuff to the game, its about fixing all the stupid stuff BIS does in the name of "realism", which are the exact things that make it more game like. Its even stupid stuff that COD does like making suppressors do less damage and reduce the velocity of the rounds, that isn't even remotely reasonable. In the real world they marginally increase velocity and have no bearing on the accuracy or damage of the gun. Instead what they do is get hot and eventually they fail unless they get time to cool down. They also get in the way of doors making it harder to corner tightly in CQB. But BIS decided not to model any of that so instead they just throw in the COD mechanic of balancing it with damage. What makes this game realistic is a tonne of mods fixing all these bad calls.

BIS doesn't make the game the community plays, the community fixes all this stuff every release (Arma, Arma 2 and now Arma 3). We do the best we can to improve performance and we do it all with mostly just hindrance from BIS.

You do know that suppressors do increase velocity in game right? I don't get where this myth comes from that they don't but it was proved a while back that they do.

(I'm not even touching the weapon sway stuff, dozens of posts have pointed out that BI know it is an exaggeration because otherwise shooting is too simple with a mouse and keyboard, none have succeeded).

[Delta Hawk 1829]

Amen, My favourite bit is only being able to run 100m before wheezing and choking on my own saliva. My second favourite is not being able to run up or down hills, that one is super special.

It's easy to run 100m in running shorts and shoes, but it's very difficult wearing 60 - 80 pounds of gear in combat boots and carrying a rifle. I can imagine wearing NVGs on your helmet would only make the problem worse. It's also not easy running up and down hills either. Running up hills of course sucks, but running down hills is equally as challenging wearing that amount of gear. It's very easy to twist your ankle, or even fall down flat on your face, possible breaking your rifle, losing gear or injuring yourself to the point you're a casualty. If BIS wanted to make it realistic with the amount of running you do in game, you should be throwing up the ridiculous amount of water you would have to drink to stay hydrated, slightly deaf from the pounding of blood from your heart working so much and ultimately blacking out. Then instead of playing Rambo like some cool dude running and gunning, you'll have to fireman carry your unconscious battle buddy to safety while getting shot at and get the corpsman to hook up an IV, further delaying the mission and compromising the safety of the fighting element.

I think a lot of people have an unrealistic belief what is realistic. They play these video games, play airsoft, listen to their military buddies embellish their stories for a free beer and watch these movies that portray "Special Forces" and they think they can decide what's realistic and what's not from that, then turn around and demand more realism from games. It's simply a joke.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Delta Hawk

[Polygon 11]

Yet another #egoboost thread. Nice going, OP.

[kklownboy 43]

default game is total lameo! Sway is fubbar, and AI are just wrong. Thank goodness I dont play default game or I would bitch all the time till I was band from the forum. Really really really bad default game now.

PS really bad bad bad default game.

PSS did I say Bad? yeah really bad.

But then who plays Default?.... wow it is so bad.

[the_demongod 31]

It's easy to run 100m in running shorts and shoes, but it's very difficult wearing 60 - 80 pounds of gear in combat boots and carrying a rifle. I can imagine wearing NVGs on your helmet would only make the problem worse. It's also not easy running up and down hills either. Running up hills of course sucks, but running down hills is equally as challenging wearing that amount of gear. It's very easy to twist your ankle, or even fall down flat on your face, possible breaking your rifle, losing gear or injuring yourself to the point you're a casualty. If BIS wanted to make it realistic with the amount of running you do in game, you should be throwing up the ridiculous amount of water you would have to drink to stay hydrated, slightly deaf from the pounding of blood from your heart working so much and ultimately blacking out. Then instead of playing Rambo like some cool dude running and gunning, you'll have to fireman carry your unconscious battle buddy to safety while getting shot at and get the corpsman to hook up an IV, further delaying the mission and compromising the safety of the fighting element.

I think a lot of people have an unrealistic belief what is realistic. They play these video games, play airsoft, listen to their military buddies embellish their stories for a free beer and watch these movies that portray "Special Forces" and they think they can decide what's realistic and what's not from that, then turn around and demand more realism from games. It's simply a joke.

How surprising, somebody who actually makes sense when they talk. I wish we could have this post get auto-posted whenever somebody says anything complaining about fatigue.

I don't understand why there is so much complaining about the weapon sway and fatigue. It was complained about and BI made it 20% less, and now they still complain. Jesus, in the time they spent complaining, I learned how to manage my fatigue and shoot with the new system.

[andersson 285]

And people in general say run about sprint. Run is default.

[bigpickle 0]

It's easy to run 100m in running shorts and shoes, but it's very difficult wearing 60 - 80 pounds of gear in combat boots and carrying a rifle. I can imagine wearing NVGs on your helmet would only make the problem worse. It's also not easy running up and down hills either. Running up hills of course sucks, but running down hills is equally as challenging wearing that amount of gear. It's very easy to twist your ankle, or even fall down flat on your face, possible breaking your rifle, losing gear or injuring yourself to the point you're a casualty. If BIS wanted to make it realistic with the amount of running you do in game, you should be throwing up the ridiculous amount of water you would have to drink to stay hydrated, slightly deaf from the pounding of blood from your heart working so much and ultimately blacking out. Then instead of playing Rambo like some cool dude running and gunning, you'll have to fireman carry your unconscious battle buddy to safety while getting shot at and get the corpsman to hook up an IV, further delaying the mission and compromising the safety of the fighting element.

I think a lot of people have an unrealistic belief what is realistic. They play these video games, play airsoft, listen to their military buddies embellish their stories for a free beer and watch these movies that portray "Special Forces" and they think they can decide what's realistic and what's not from that, then turn around and demand more realism from games. It's simply a joke.

I did those things so I know how hard it is, but you do it because you have to, the alternative could be as little as a servere hammering from those around you or worst case senario, death. Not to mention the mentality and pride that goes with being an infantier.

With all my points in mind, wouldnt it be in there interest of the game and or fun of the game, to presume that the soliders in it can perform at basic/higher infantier fitness test levels. Two-mile fire team assessments are standard at basic level infantry, of course there is a weight limit, if i remember rightly it was 40lbs not counting weapon and ammunition, that is some of the lightest load you will carry. On Ops it is what ever is required of you with in reason.

[Delta Hawk 1829]

My point is it's a game, not real life. Suggesting ArmA should be more realistic is kind of ridiculous considering the facts of life. Nobody would want to play a game that was as realistic as possible. I believe a more appropriate way of saying it is suggesting modification of gameplay mechanics in order to create a more enjoyable, balanced playing environment, not "make it real life".

[Guest]

[deleted]

[Delta Hawk 1829]

Well not being able to run down hills is realistic less you want to take the very possible chance of twisting or breaking your ankle but I can imagine simulating that in ArmA would make so many people angry. It's almost impossible to run up hill too.

It would be physically exhausting to jog (not sprint) everywhere wearing that kind of equipment for that amount of time, which would make aiming your weapon difficult. Even after about two hours of walking, your feet and shoulders feel like they're on fire. Your leg and arm muscles are strained. If your helmet is heavy like in ArmA3, you'll feel like you have a stiff neck. Not to mention the idea of taking a knee and scrapping your skin, getting sand or dirt stuck in your shirt sleeve, shirt and trouser waist, getting skin chafing in the crouch area from the sweat and walking, putting up with the heat .etc. And that's not including physical and mental stress of a combat environment. And to imagine Soldiers and Marines take all these pains and discomforts and put them in the back of their mind so they can focus on the mission.

Imagine playing ArmA with the edge of the screen pulsing red while working hard. That would be a realistic way of simulating being physically exhausted. If you want to be super realistic, then you should have to drink water based on your physical exertion which leads to an all too familiar logistical requirement of resupplying water or managing your water supply. It would be possible to create balanced gameplay based on these mechanics, but of course someone will always complain.

[mistyronin 1181]

My point is it's a game, not real life. Suggesting ArmA should be more realistic is kind of ridiculous considering the facts of life.

I used to be a soldier in real life, and of course it doesn't make any sense to create a game 100% realistic, because it wouldn't be fun most of the time. In that point we agree. However there is a golden middle ground point between realism and arcade, some kind of half-simulation that would equal to Arma 2 + ACE.

IMO the OP has a point saying that AI is terminator-like ( ok, a bit less than OFP that was like a tuned T-1000 ), which make makes the game be a pain in the ass a lot of times.

[Sub-Human 10]

It would be physically exhausting to jog (not sprint) everywhere wearing that kind of equipment for that amount of time, which would make aiming your weapon difficult. Even after about two hours of walking, your feet and shoulders feel like they're on fire.

That is not entirely true, soldiers are trained to be able to march with full equipment for several hours. Some units go out for entire days (of course, they do sleep and take breaks) and then the worst is blisters on the foot. I think ArmA soldiers are pretty lightweight, a lot of them do not have backpacks that would be filled with rations, water, blankets, tents, rope...

Also, if you consider that most multiplayer operations can be completed in just over an hour, with vehicle transportation in between and frequent breaks to discuss plans, I'd say there's not much fatigue put upon the player.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Sub-Human

[Guest]

[deleted]