AI too accurate

[OMAC 254]

I think BI has done a fantastic job simulating fatigue (especially relative to carried weapons and load) and weapon sway. Practically as realistic as possible for an un-modded video game. And they have already tweaked AI accuracy and implemented various positive changes and AI fixes (for example, http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=13493 and http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10143) that have improved the game since the alpha. But the Infantry and Night Showcases need to go, as they are badly-done spoilers of campaign missions, and do nothing positive for the game. They should be replaced with some official SP scenarios that truly showcase BI's expert mission-making capabilities.

[Delta Hawk 1829]

That is not entirely true, soldiers are trained to be able to march with full equipment for several hours. Some units go out for entire days (of course, they do sleep and take breaks) and then the worst is blisters on the foot. I think ArmA soldiers are pretty lightweight, a lot of them do not have backpacks that would be filled with rations, water, blankets, tents, rope...

Also, if you consider that most multiplayer operations can be completed in just over an hour, with vehicle transportation in between and frequent breaks to discuss plans, I'd say there's not much fatigue put upon the player.

The worst isn't blisters. You can get twisted ankles, shin splints, stress fractures in the feet, patellar tendonitis, dehydrated .etc. Of course a lot of this happens over time. Soldiers may be trained to endure the physical pain, but that doesn't make them immune to it or being injured. They have human bodies just like everyone else. Putting on a high speed, low drag, awesome plate carrier with cool looking weapons and helmets does not make them superman.

Just glancing at a picture of ArmA3 units, they wear plate carriers with front, rear and side SAPIs, more than 120 rounds of ammo, grenades, 3 liters of water, ridiculously heavy helmets and a bunch of other items. They are not lightweight at all.

Also the military doesn't use tents or blankets. They would just unroll their sleeping mat on the bare ground and crawl in their sleeping bag. But I agree, with the amount of transportation there is the possibility that even being as realistic as possible players would not get fatigued as much as foot mobile soldiers.

[infiltrator_2k 29]

The worst isn't blisters. You can get twisted ankles, shin splints, stress fractures in the feet, patellar tendonitis, dehydrated .etc. Of course a lot of this happens over time. Soldiers may be trained to endure the physical pain, but that doesn't make them immune to it or being injured. They have human bodies just like everyone else. Putting on a high speed, low drag, awesome plate carrier with cool looking weapons and helmets does not make them superman.

Just glancing at a picture of ArmA3 units, they wear plate carriers with front, rear and side SAPIs, more than 120 rounds of ammo, grenades, 3 liters of water, ridiculously heavy helmets and a bunch of other items. They are not lightweight at all.

Also the military doesn't use tents or blankets. They would just unroll their sleeping mat on the bare ground and crawl in their sleeping bag. But I agree, with the amount of transportation there is the possibility that even being as realistic as possible players would not get fatigued as much as foot mobile soldiers.

I suffered from shin splints and it's bloody painful For years the British Army denied the condition even existed. The irony is it would be only the first one or two miles that I had an issue with. Once the legs warmed up and the endorphines kicked it it wasn't a problem.

I haven't got an issue with Arma's fatigue as I can appreciate how if feels to carry all of that kit having done it. If the AI have similar attributes then it's balanced IMO.

[mistyronin 1181]

Also the military doesn't use tents or blankets. They would just unroll their sleeping mat on the bare ground and crawl in their sleeping bag. But I agree, with the amount of transportation there is the possibility that even being as realistic as possible players would not get fatigued as much as foot mobile soldiers.

Uhm? The soldiers of a lot of countries do use tents ( and if you count poncho liners as blankets... ), it just depends on what kind of place you are and in which conditions.

BTW on blisters I can say that I ended marches with 13 blisters in each foot, after a while you forgot about them ( besides they are easy to treat, just a needle and a thread ). To me the worst were the blisters that appeared inside other blisters.

About injuries, they are unfortunately quite common in long marches through mountain passes.

[andersson 285]

Yep, wouldn't survive for long if one would just lay down on the ground in Finland during the colder period.

[Gunter Severloh 4063]

Could this thread get anymore offtopic, were talking about AI being to accurate here what is everyone doing to make them not so accurate, I already know myself but i'd like

to see what else there is, im considering updating my AI compilation list to have a small section for this particular subject.

[Janez 531]

Problem with AI is that their rate of fire is too fast. What I mean by that is they shoot a bullet every... 0.5s? Something like that? So, within five to ten rounds you are dead. By headshot. On any range.

While player cannot shoot nearly as fast or as accurate due to obvious reasons.

Since AI has no recoil, no weapon sway and are not affected by incoming fire in any way, they are supposed to be balanced by RoF. And its way to frequent and way to accurate in comparison to what a player can do.

[OMAC 254]

AI accuracy is one topic presented by OP, but the Infantry Showcase (FSM) design and difficulty is another.

[mistyronin 1181]

Problem with AI is that their rate of fire is too fast. What I mean by that is they shoot a bullet every... 0.5s? Something like that? So, within five to ten rounds you are dead.

That has other issues, for example friendly AI burns their ammo in a couple of firefights.

They should be less precise ( that could be implemented giving them just a 2-3% of possibilities to fire a proper aimed shoot at less than 200mts ), they should also have an increased time between shoots. They should take a time to fire ( to simulate human aiming ). They should be affected by suppression fire. Probably even affected by the length of the time they have been under fire and the casualties on their side ( to simulate stress and morale ).

I don't know in sandbox games like Assassin's Creed, the enemy AI seem to be way more intelligent than Arma one ( although it's true that their numbers may not be as huge ). They simulate better morale, aiming, detection, they switch formations on the fly, etc.

[Guest]

[deleted]

[mistyronin 1181]

AI is incredibly smart to be able to navigate, operate vehicles and fire all the respect weapons accurately.

:confused:

If even OFP AI, more than 10 years ago, was able to drive better than its A3 counterpart. A3 AI drives like crazy, doesn't follow most of the roads, does strange turns, tends to crash against walls, can't go properly backwards, rams soldiers to avoid crashing a snake, etc.

Not to talk about how A3 AI handle helos and planes, it tends to crash them in low mountains, which is completely weird.

What's true is that combat foot maneuvering has improved a lot since OFP.

[Guest]

[deleted]

[infiltrator_2k 29]

I wouldn't criticize overall AI intelligence, rather just their "default" settings. AI is incredibly smart to be able to navigate, operate vehicles and fire all the respect weapons accurately. The key difference between Arma AI and other games is that any soldier can pilot a helicopter or fire a tank cannon. Rather, the default AI settings that allow for more human-like flanking and maneuvering (general skill at around 1) also imparts superhuman accuracy no matter the situation (under suppressing fire or other conditions). Adjusting the accuracy values is something that mission makers and AI modders already do routinely; it would be great if the default accuracy values of Arma AI was also adjusted by the devs accordingly. I guess the rest would just require some smart conditional coding to account for suppressing fire and weapon optic quality (iron-sight vs SOS).

I was trying to complete the Infantry Showcase again last night, but instead of letting frustration getting the better of me I analysed the AI's movement and tactics. Little did I know that the AI were often flanking my position and shooting me in the back. It's amazing what the game allows you to see after you've been killed from the camera's third-person view. I also noted how the AI moved swiftly in a wedge formation hunting down any remaining adversaries. They appear to be a pre-programmed ultimate killing machine on that particular mission.

On the plus side, the Infantry Showcase will undoubtedly improve players' skills. I think what players don't anticipate in the Infantry Showcase is the not only the AI's skill, but their courage level. I think we ideally expect and would want is AI's to respond like soldiers would in real life with self-preservation being a factor that determines the pace of the battle. Instead I've found the AI to act more like unstoppable terminators. But I think for BIS they must have been stuck between 'a rock and a hard place' with getting the balance right with regards to the AI's skill level.

[haleks 8212]

The thing about that mission is that the beginning is nothing less than a death-trap... Playing that part in the campaign didn't bother me - since I had a minimum of context.

But I sure would love a proper showcase, not a copy/paste from the campaign... Good SP missions is what I miss the most since Arma2 : we had some pretty good ones back then.

[OMAC 254]

But I sure would love a proper showcase, not a copy/paste from the campaign... Good SP missions is what I miss the most since Arma2 : we had some pretty good ones back then.

Hear, hear! :D I've been writing/wishing this for some time. BI has a strong tradition of excellent official SP scenarios, and it was a major disappointment for me that the Scenarios section is only for user missions. I have written before that I think the playable content team, plus Karel and Ivan Buchta, should be flown to some nice Mediterranean hotel, and locked in there with some food, beer, and coffee and not let out until 10 awesome SP missions have been completed. ;) As I have suggested here, the Combined Arms showcase could be revamped as well.

I was trying to complete the Infantry Showcase again last night, but instead of letting frustration getting the better of me I analysed the AI's movement and tactics. Little did I know that the AI were often flanking my position and shooting me in the back. It's amazing what the game allows you to see after you've been killed from the camera's third-person view. I also noted how the AI moved swiftly in a wedge formation hunting down any remaining adversaries. They appear to be a pre-programmed ultimate killing machine on that particular mission.

On the plus side, the Infantry Showcase will undoubtedly improve players' skills. I think what players don't anticipate in the Infantry Showcase is the not only the AI's skill, but their courage level. I think we ideally expect and would want is AI's to respond like soldiers would in real life with self-preservation being a factor that determines the pace of the battle. Instead I've found the AI to act more like unstoppable terminators. But I think for BIS they must have been stuck between 'a rock and a hard place' with getting the balance right with regards to the AI's skill level.

The terminator-like qualities of the CSAT AI in that showcase are party caused by the FSM scripting. They come on like a wave, and will not stop or flee under any circumstances. In addition to that, if you flank them and get to the village alive, they will stay put up the valley where they first attacked you rather than returning to hunt you down in the village. That showcase may be the first content played by new A3 customers, including novices, and that may discourage them about the game from the outset.

Edited December 6, 2014 by OMAC