oxmox 73 Posted March 21, 2016 And it is quite telling that the crimean population only started those demands after they were invaded by Russia Not talking directly about the case of the annexion, but: There were always ambitions to be independant from the Ukraine. Already in the 90´s several referendum were hold but the Ukraine called such votes invalid and surpressed it. There is a long ongoing dispute between the west and east Ukraine and the seperatism movement is not new. http://articles.latimes.com/1994-05-21/news/mn-60465_1_black-sea http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/06/world/crimea-parliament-votes-to-back-independence-from-ukraine.html But, its not right how Russia did treat a sovereign country, its understandable that they did react like it happenend and it was forseen, but its not ok. You will find aswell controversials by law experts, who do not share the view of an annexion but these are highly likely in the minority. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted March 21, 2016 Those experts may bend the truth as much as they want, but that's an annexion. The polls done in Crimea before the Maiden and Crimea events showed a clear but not overwhelming majority for going back to mother Russia (something like 55 or 60 %), not 90%. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted March 21, 2016 Those experts may bend the truth as much as they want, but that's an annexion. The polls done in Crimea before the Maiden and Crimea events showed a clear but not overwhelming majority for going back to mother Russia (something like 55 or 60 %), not 90%. Well to be fair, the US Ambassador did clearly say that he would expect that the majority would vote for it or the results are not surprising...something like this. I did post about it in the Ukrainian thread longer ago, think it was a video, cant remember. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontknowhow 33 Posted March 21, 2016 That wasn´t an answer to my question. I know, I know. I thought my smiley was clear enough. http://articles.latimes.com/1994-05-21/news/mn-60465_1_black-seahttp://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/06/world/crimea-parliament-votes-to-back-independence-from-ukraine.html Interesting. Also, to be fair, it's true that Russians in Ukraine are not treated very well. I know because I used to work with one. It might be considered in a way understandable that people are mad at the Russians after 50 years of oppression, but I'm not sure it's the right reaction. Those experts may bend the truth as much as they want, but that's an annexion. The polls done in Crimea before the Maiden and Crimea events showed a clear but not overwhelming majority for going back to mother Russia (something like 55 or 60 %), not 90%. Well it's known that Russians in Crimea are the majority, and more or less 60%, I believe. That's still a majority. Maybe they had the numbers to vote themselves out of Ukraine. If they had arranged a serious referendum I would have understood it; but not this. Obviously Ukraine would have never let Crimea go, but that still doesn't justify this mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted March 21, 2016 Yeah, that would have been the proper way to do it. Get political support and then conduct an open, internationally monitored referendum to vote the crim out of Ukraine. Not only was the Russian referendum obviously manipulated, but even the Pro Russians on the Krim were as surprised by the sudden invasion as the Ukrainians... I have a lot of Ukrainian and Russian (more Russians then Ukrainians) colleagues at work and they all get along very well. They also all agree that what Russia/Putin did to Ukraine was wrong. What makes them sad is that they know that Russia and Ukraine, two countries that have been quite close in their relations, will never again get a good partnership. This (still unresolved) conflict will always stand between them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted March 21, 2016 Interesting. Well, a lot of interesting stuff was posted in the Ukrainian thread if you have time have a look. two countries that have been quite close in their relations, will never again get a good partnership Not only countries but the Ukrainian people itself, they are more devided than before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
x3kj 1247 Posted March 23, 2016 Yeah, that would have been the proper way to do it. Get political support and then conduct an open, internationally monitored referendum to vote the crim out of Ukraine. Not only was the Russian referendum obviously manipulated, but even the Pro Russians on the Krim were as surprised by the sudden invasion as the Ukrainians... I have a lot of Ukrainian and Russian (more Russians then Ukrainians) colleagues at work and they all get along very well. They also all agree that what Russia/Putin did to Ukraine was wrong. What makes them sad is that they know that Russia and Ukraine, two countries that have been quite close in their relations, will never again get a good partnership. This (still unresolved) conflict will always stand between them. Show of power to US/Nato that they won't stand idle when Nato subverts neighbours. I just hope people across the world have learnt from the recent "revolutions" that brought nothing but more problems, so that future initiators fall flat on their face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted March 23, 2016 Show of power to US/Nato that they won't stand idle when Nato subverts neighbours. I just hope people across the world have learnt from the recent "revolutions" that brought nothing but more problems, so that future initiators fall flat on their face. If people followed that logic we still would live in monarchies... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontknowhow 33 Posted March 24, 2016 I have a lot of Ukrainian and Russian (more Russians then Ukrainians) colleagues at work and they all get along very well. Yes, I work now in a company with a lot of people from Eastern Europe, and I see the same. But I think you should ask people who actually live there, particularly the Russians. I used to work with one, and his opinion was quite clear. Not that one is statistically very relevant, but it's quite indicative to me of the fact that that was probably an important reason for the invasion, like Putin also more or less said. Show of power to US/Nato that they won't stand idle when Nato subverts neighbours. Yeah man, great power. Stop giving money to Putin and suddenly the invasion stops. I'm frightened. How can we now subvert Ukraine? I was so looking forward to Ukraine joining NATO. What a loss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted March 24, 2016 Yeah man, great power. Stop giving money to Putin and suddenly the invasion stops. I'm frightened. How can we now subvert Ukraine? I was so looking forward to Ukraine joining NATO. What a loss. Ya, and imagine when we'll subvert them to enter EU, so that we could spend billions € in subsidies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontknowhow 33 Posted March 25, 2016 Ya, and imagine when we'll subvert them to enter EU, so that we could spend billions € in subsidies. oh man, i'm so happy when i can give away billions to make new colonies. Too bad Putin spoiled it with his show of power. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lato190 55 Posted April 29, 2016 Poll in Germany: Majority of germans want closer relationship with russia.81% of germans want to change its current relationship with russia to a closer and better relationship.Source in german: Russland: Deutsche wollen engere Partnerschaft laut Umfrage - SPIEGEL ONLINE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontknowhow 33 Posted April 29, 2016 49% think Russia and the EU should work together to solve the Syrian conflict, which is by far the biggest group (terrorism fighting, second, has 13%). I guess people are happy to let Putin do the dirty work. Hypocrites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted April 29, 2016 Poll in Germany: Majority of germans want closer relationship with russia. 81% of germans want to change its current relationship with russia to a closer and better relationship. Source in german: Russland: Deutsche wollen engere Partnerschaft laut Umfrage - SPIEGEL ONLINE By the way, Spiegel Online is junk. You can always trust them to either misquote, or cherry pick what they like. Just as you can always trust guys like you to jump at every bit of information you think proves some kind of point without checking their facts. Here is the link to the full survey: http://www.koerber-stiftung.de/internationale-verstaendigung/im-fokus-russland-in-europa/publikationen.html Let me cherry pick smth: 48% of Germans think Russia is a threatening country. See, I can do that too. If you read the full survey it does paint an interesting...and slightly disturbing picture of Russia. They do have quite a weird understanding of what a democracy is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontknowhow 33 Posted April 29, 2016 By the way, Spiegel Online is junk. You can always trust them to either misquote, or cherry pick what they like. Just as you can always trust guys like you to jump at every bit of information you think proves some kind of point without checking their facts. Here is the link to the full survey: http://www.koerber-stiftung.de/internationale-verstaendigung/im-fokus-russland-in-europa/publikationen.html Let me cherry pick smth: 48% of Germans think Russia is a threatening country. See, I can do that too. If you read the full survey it does paint an interesting...and slightly disturbing picture of Russia. They do have quite a weird understanding of what a democracy is. I have to say that i'm afraid the result doesn't bare many doubts. I also saw this: 95% der deutschen und 84% der Russen halten es für wichtig oder sehr wichtig, dass sich Russland und die eu in den nächsten Jahren politisch wieder annähern. (95% of Germans and 84% of Russians consider important that Russia and the EU get politically closer again in the next years). Fuck that. Edit: okay, too rude. Sorry about that. But I don't like it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_lukin 16 Posted April 30, 2016 Breaking news: ‘Aggressive’ Russian Su-27 maneuver came within 50 feet of U.S. RC-135 Russians 'barrel roll' over another U.S. Air Force plane Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
archbishop lazarus 24 Posted May 1, 2016 If you read the full survey it does paint an interesting...and slightly disturbing picture of Russia. They do have quite a weird understanding of what a democracy is. In my opinion, the weird is what germans think in some questions... Actually not weird, sick... Gayrope... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted May 12, 2016 This is super funny :D http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-12-uk-russian-embassy-tweets-screenshot-from-command-and-conquer-generals 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nodunit 397 Posted May 12, 2016 Breaking news: ‘Aggressive’ Russian Su-27 maneuver came within 50 feet of U.S. RC-135 Russians 'barrel roll' over another U.S. Air Force plane I wonder how a discussion about that would go. "Hey could you stop buzzing our planes?" "Sure as soon as you stop sending your spycraft over our country." I'm pretty sure we would be doing the same if situations were reversed, also it seems Russian pilots really like top gun. This is super funny :D http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-12-uk-russian-embassy-tweets-screenshot-from-command-and-conquer-generals Ah the good ole GLA postal service... I wonder if they added "Illustration purpsoes only" as they posted or after...either way I don't expect they'll be living that one down anytime soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted May 12, 2016 Meh they could have used Arma as everybody else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontknowhow 33 Posted May 12, 2016 This is super funny :D http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-12-uk-russian-embassy-tweets-screenshot-from-command-and-conquer-generals yeah, but they took the inspiration from us :D http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/kremlin-satellite-images-russian-troops-computer-games-n191771 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted May 12, 2016 I wonder how a discussion about that would go. "Hey could you stop buzzing our planes?" "Sure as soon as you stop sending your spycraft over our country." I'm pretty sure we would be doing the same if situations were reversed, also it seems Russian pilots really like top gun. Ah the good ole GLA postal service... I wonder if they added "Illustration purpsoes only" as they posted or after...either way I don't expect they'll be living that one down anytime soon. They added it later after they realized what they did :D Honestly, I´m suprised they haven´t deleted it. @dontknowhow Isn´t it a bit suspicious if they do not mention wich game it is? :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted May 12, 2016 I've zoomed on the picture and it may finally be a real one : Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1309 Posted July 2, 2016 37-old Russian sentenced for spreading lies because he said, in 1939 USSR invaded Poland together with Hitler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
