Russia General

[Tonci87 163]

Well, this obviously must be photoshop then

 

 

And this here must be all lies as well

 

 

damn stupid Kremlin idiots....

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, rewriting history isn't an easy task...

[pedeathtrian 99]

And this here must be all lies as well

I had history classes in school and in university (2004) in Russia and it all said the same. Hitler and Stalin divided Europe and annexed corresponding parts. And that Stalin was going to start a war against Hitler in 1942 and so on.

The important detail people usually miss is that Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a secret agreement arranged with soviet people knowing nothing about it (unfortunately this happens when you have dictatorship). It was never a will of russian people to annex these lands. So please, say Stalin did this, Stalin did that, or communists did, not russians. It's funny how it also applies to Putin (Putin annexed Crimea, not russians (oh, wait, +10 years in gulag for saying this, Okay.jpg)).

Russians are very peaceful people (they are!), so please lower rate of hate and disrespect to them, and direct it to concrete personalities. Thx.

I don't know what they teach nowadays, but I definitely don't like what is going on in media and in country in general. Anyway this is going to end soon (very soon!)

 

PS. Please, don't report this post to KGB, I have plans for next two years other than sitting in prison.

[Rydygier 1309]

Russians are very peaceful people (they are!), so please lower rate of hate and disrespect to them, and direct it to concrete personalities. Thx.

 

 

I think, that's why he said about "Kremlin idiots", not Russians en masse. You're right of course about directing disrespect towards particular people, who actually are responsible. Still, what we, outside the Russia, hear, is that most of Russians support Putin. And many of them also have still strong sentiment after Stalin and USSR/communism times. Is actual truth in that or that's another Kremlin propaganda? Anyway, good, there are Russians like you, keeping own judgement and valuing the truth, even when inconvenient. That's what worthy of the respect IMHO, not the way of lies and fear, Kremlin today tries to achieve/build respect, with opposite effect of course.

 

BTW aren't you actually indeed risking now by writing, what you wrote? I hope, no one will report that anywhere, but... 

[pedeathtrian 99]

...most of Russians support Putin. And many of them also have still strong sentiment after Stalin and USSR/communism times. Is actual truth in that or that's another Kremlin propaganda?

Yeah. I can confirm. Unfortunately most people think something like "Putin did so much for Russia", "If not Putin, then who?", and even "No Putin -- No Russia" as said by Vyacheslav Volodin, first vice of Chief of Staff of the Presidential Executive Office, the man who actually runs domestic policy in RF. Not a surprise people think this way, considering authorities have all the media at their hands. And they even think they can control Russian part of the Internet. LMAO.

Some people just don't see alternatives (and there are none in mainstream, i.e. in approachable information field), some just tired of shocks happened in latest decades. Sentiments after Stalin and/or USSR/communism are actually not after them, and mostly not after ideology. They are after the order existed in those times. Lower crime rates, almost no corruption, social lifts, stable future and so on. None of these are exclusive attributes of communism. But this is somehow hard to understand.

So, in general, that Putin's support is fake. If only people knew all the truth...

Most of romanians "supported" CeauÅŸescu. Then what? But for Putin this story will not be that short. I hope for extremely open process, with long and detailed testimonies available to everyone, so that all the truth comes out. That probably involves high-ranks from other countries, sorry guys. Some heart attacks can occur.

 

BTW aren't you actually indeed risking now by writing, what you wrote? I hope, no one will report that anywhere, but... 

As for the risk, that was a joke. But, according to russian proverb, "every joke is only partly a joke". Russian laws are selective. And stupid. And controversial. And unable to follow. You can apply them to almost everyone in RF. So yes, if they somehow want me to go to jail, thay actually can arrange some actions. Luckily, they have completely no system in it. Look what they persecute for. Reposts in groups of what? ten users? "Dangerous" posts with ten likes? One reposter of tens of thousands of the same post? It's like winning a lottery. I also think they can't just ask BIS for my credentials as they can with VK and other sevices that store personal data in RF (according to Russian laws).

And from other side, conviction of such kind will never be a bad spot in biography. Not for me.

Of course I don't go to street with poster, since this time it's a real risk, despite that article 31 of Russian Constitution clearly says "Citizens of Russian federation have right to gather peacefully without weapons, arrange gatherings (sorry for repeat, sounds better in russian), meetings and demonstrations, marches and piquets." Period. Article 15 section 1 says "Constitution of Russian Federation has the highest legal force, direct action, and applies on all territory of Russian Federation. Laws and other legal acts, adopted in Russian Federation must not contradict Constitution of Russian Federation". Period. Then parliament adopts a law (federal law No.54-FZ) obliging me to inform local authorities about my planned actions, planned route, amount of participators, do it in short term from 15 to 10 days before action (so I can't just go for meeting next day after someone killed Boris Nemtsov) and so on. Then if I get permission (which is unlikely) I can go through police corridor in my free country. Wait, what? Constitution arcticle didn't have any reference to any other laws, it's the law of direct action. Clearly this anti-constitutional law shouldn't be signed in the first place by... Putin, the guarantee of constitution in RF. Isn't Putin a criminal then? Of course, it's only one small episode, but is usually enough to convince opponent (that Putin is a criminal; not saying about economical crimes, here I have no proof).

Sigh. Situation here gets more tense day by day. The Revolution is coming (not a joke; also, not a communistic one; also, it does not require support of most people), there are groups of people already preparing it. This time none of people taking any posts in any state orgnizations will be left in their places. Clearly representative democracy does not work well anywhere, it doesn't work at all in Russia. The goal is direct democracy.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Don't take it the wrong way mate, I wouldn't post in the Russia topic if i hadn't a huge respect about Russia, how great its culture, history, artists, writers, musicians, scientists, etc. were and are.

 

But on the political side of things, it's always been a huge failure, from the awful Czarist regime to the bloody communist one. Putin's regime is better compared to the Stalinian one, of course, but it's far from what your country deserves. I don't believe in direct democracy, it has never worked in big countries such as yours, people are too ignorant to be able to rule their own country directly, it always leads in the end to dictatorship.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

The Revolution is coming (not a joke; also, not a communistic one; also, it does not require support of most people), there are groups of people already preparing it.

 

Hmmm, CIA is preparing another colour revolution?

[Rydygier 1309]

I don't believe in direct democracy, it has never worked in big countries such as yours, people are too ignorant to be able to rule their own country directly, it always leads in the end to dictatorship.

 

 

Yep. Sadly, there's no ideal panacea, also in direct democracy, where common people are entitled to actually run the country, deciding things, that require perspective, knowledge and skill, most people haven't. It was said many times after Churchill (I believe), democracy is fatal and fundamentally flawed. But also is the best, we know so far. The weak spot is always the same - human nature. BTW I would like to hear, how it works in Switzerland, as I heard, they have something pretty close to sort of direct democracy, considering regular referenda (?). 

[d_lukin 16]

Hmmm, CIA is preparing another colour revolution?

No. Just among the people growing discontent, because for the past two years, level of life has fallen by almost 2 times. (Because of falling oil prices and conflict in Ukraine). But I suspect that the CIA will warm up this discontent  :rolleyes:

[dontknowhow 33]

Not a surprise people think this way, considering authorities have all the media at their hands.

I understand where you are coming from, but don't you think it's a bit too simplistic to explain more than 80% support for Putin just with this?

 

As for the risk, that was a joke. But, according to russian proverb, "every joke is only partly a joke". Russian laws are selective. And stupid. And controversial. And unable to follow. You can apply them to almost everyone in RF. So yes, if they somehow want me to go to jail, thay actually can arrange some actions. Luckily, they have completely no system in it. Look what they persecute for. Reposts in groups of what? ten users? "Dangerous" posts with ten likes? One reposter of tens of thousands of the same post? It's like winning a lottery. I also think they can't just ask BIS for my credentials as they can with VK and other sevices that store personal data in RF (according to Russian laws).

Wow, that sounds really negative. However, if it's true, you should watch your back. It's not hard to find out what machines posted on BIS site, and particularly the ones from Omsk (or another location, if Omsk is not where you live).

Consider using something like Tor.

 

No. Just among the people growing discontent, because for the past two years, level of life has fallen by almost 2 times. (Because of falling oil prices and conflict in Ukraine). But I suspect that the CIA will warm up this discontent  :rolleyes:

Oh my god, some common sense. Thanks for that :)

And you bet it's not only the CIA, by the way. Lots of people have interest in Putin's fall.

[pedeathtrian 99]

I understand where you are coming from, but don't you think it's a bit too simplistic to explain more than 80% support for Putin just with this?

It stands not for all 80%, though a big part of it. When people can't organize themselves on their own, media does it quite well. When people do not have enough knowledge about their own society, how it works and how it lives, can't make a proper (or even improper!) outlook, media does it quite well. When people can't ask proper questions to find proper information about what is going on around them, media gives "proper" answers. People seek information that does fit their damaged brains and does not cause too much of cognitive dissonances (and ignore otherwise). In short, don't underestimate the power of media in a country like Russia. Picturing of Putin inside Russia differs very significantly from what is outside.

Other big part of supporters is the people who profit from the situation: bureaucracy of all kinds and such. People who would be nothing in healthy society. The army of officials multiplied in past 15 years, and continues to.

We also have people who does not actually support Putin, but counted in. Let's say, you walk down the street by your own business. When suddenly random surveyor pops out of nowhere and asks "Hey, do you have a minute for a small survey? How old are you? Where do you work? What's your position here? Do you praise the lord almighty Putin and his accomplices?". And even this way, I don't believe they get their 80%. I insist, 80% is fake.

Administrative resource of course. People are made support Putin. Or they have different kind of problems. Mostly state employees.

People who were taught to love their tsar since they were born.

 

Wow, that sounds really negative. However, if it's true, you should watch your back. It's not hard to find out what machines posted on BIS site, and particularly the ones from Omsk (or another location, if Omsk is not where you live).

Consider using something like Tor.

Thx, my back is ok, it has spine ;)

 

---

No. Just among the people growing discontent, because for the past two years, level of life has fallen by almost 2 times. (Because of falling oil prices and conflict in Ukraine). But I suspect that the CIA will warm up this discontent   :rolleyes:

Bullshit, not because of falling oil prices, but because of it is still tied to them. Thanks, Putin, you had several years ot high prices to diversificate the economy and make it less dependable on oil prices. You did nothing if not worse. "Who if not Putin?". Damn, my cat could do better. At least she would steal less, would not quarrel with all neighbours, and would not start war with Ukraine.

[d_lukin 16]

Bullshit, not because of falling oil prices, but because of it is still tied to them. Thanks, Putin, you had several years ot high prices to diversificate the economy and make it less dependable on oil prices. You did nothing if not worse. "Who if not Putin?". Damn, my cat could do better. At least she would steal less, would not quarrel with all neighbours, and would not start war with Ukraine.

 

 

Why bullshit? I think everything is written correctly.

Something that does not get rid of dependence on oil price for 15 years - it is certainly epic fail, it already understood everything.

 

[Sanya 97]

Thanks, Putin, you had several years ot high prices to diversificate the economy and make it less dependable on oil prices.

 

Thanks to US corporations in which Putin has been all these years a puppet.

[Rydygier 1309]

Russia wants to discredit NATO. False interviews with Polish generals

 

Russia responds to the NATO summit in Warsaw by increasing the number of offensive operations at the level of information. These include fake interviews with Polish generals, messages suggesting the outbreak of armed conflict in Europe and attempts to play off the issue of Volyn.

 

 

So, writing the history anew is one thing, plain lying about present situation is another part of the same picture. 

[spooky lynx 73]

Thanks, Putin, you had several years ot high prices to diversificate the economy and make it less dependable on oil prices. You did nothing if not worse.

 

Maybe I will surprise you but economy does not depend on Putin alone. Most of the companies are private, so it's up to private investors to decide what to do. It's not Putin's fault that private company Lukoil prefers to sell crude oil abroad and get fast income instead of its refining at domestic plants and invest in it. And it's not Putin's fault that local businessmen prefer getting fast income from selling crude materials and reselling imported goods rather than long-term investments in locally stationed manufacturing and development which can't bring them large income now together with low expenses.

[Sanya 97]

Maybe I will surprise you but economy does not depend on Putin alone. Most of the companies are private, so it's up to private investors to decide what to do. It's not Putin's fault that private company Lukoil prefers to sell crude oil abroad and get fast income instead of its refining at domestic plants and invest in it. And it's not Putin's fault that local businessmen prefer getting fast income from selling crude materials and reselling imported goods rather than long-term investments in locally stationed manufacturing and development which can't bring them large income now together with low expenses.

Simply put it is a process of plundering.  Looting a lot easier than to build anew.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

Mikhail Gorbachev says Nato is escalating Cold War with Russia 'into a hot one'

"Nato has begun preparations for escalating from the Cold War into a hot one.

All the rhetoric in Warsaw just yells of a desire almost to declare war on Russia. They only talk about defence, but actually they are preparing for offensive operations.â€

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nato-chief-russia-soviet-mikhail-gorbachev-ukraine-eastern-europe-tensions-jens-stoltenberg-unified-a7128521.html

 

Honestly, I think he is completely right. NATO has gone too far. They spread the hysteria of an "imminent russian attack", and unfortunately, lots of people believes this BS. We are slowly but surely getting closer and closer to WW3, and it is certain that it will be a nuclear holocaust. NATO, do you really want this?

[pedeathtrian 99]

Maybe I will surprise you but economy does not depend on Putin alone. Most of the companies are private, so it's up to private investors to decide what to do. It's not Putin's fault that private company Lukoil prefers to sell crude oil abroad and get fast income instead of its refining at domestic plants and invest in it. And it's not Putin's fault that local businessmen prefer getting fast income from selling crude materials and reselling imported goods rather than long-term investments in locally stationed manufacturing and development which can't bring them large income now together with low expenses.

So you are willing to tell me that there were no such thing as oil dollars in Putin's Russia? And Putin had really no resources to make a quality shift in Russian economy?

 

UPD.

What private companies do is a completely separate story. But I'm very concerned about what president, government, and state companies did. They did nothing of what they had to. Or even the opposite.

[spooky lynx 73]

So you are willing to tell me that there were no such thing as oil dollars in Putin's Russia? And Putin had really no resources to make a quality shift in Russian economy?

 

UPD.

What private companies do is a completely separate story. But I'm very concerned about what president, government, and state companies did. They did nothing of what they had to. Or even the opposite.

Those oil dollars are nothing but taxes taken of export sells and extraction. It is only a part of the whole income from crude oil. Then, only Rosneft and Bashneft are state-owned oil companies. Others are either 100% private or only with part of state share. And the main thing is that the finance spending and the whole economy is a collective work. The president is not responsible for it alone. Since 1991 :)

So it's completely wrong to blame Putin alone for economy flaws. Such guys as Kudrin, Gref and Nabiullina have even more response for it. Also I wonder why private-owned oil companies prefer not to invest in developing and enlarging oil refining, leaving high prices on fuel, but selling crude oil abroad. The same goes to wood, metals etc. Due to greed and incompetence of both state and private top-management the country is left only with basic industry, selling cheaper resources and buying more expensive conversion products from abroad.

[pedeathtrian 99]

So it's completely wrong to blame Putin alone for economy flaws

I don't blame Putin personally, but also all his team, the people he set to their positions, including those you listed above. Putin set them to their positions, they fuck everything up. Not a Putin's fault?

Putin abolishes governor elections in regions and sets loyal dumbasses to fuck up the rest and they succeed. Not a Putin's fault? This list is damn long...

 

Also I wonder why private-owned oil companies prefer not to invest in developing and enlarging oil refining, leaving high prices on fuel, but selling crude oil abroad. The same goes to wood, metals etc. Due to greed and incompetence of both state and private top-management the country is left only with basic industry, selling cheaper resources and buying more expensive conversion products from abroad.

It is not only about greed and incompetence. They completely don't associate their future with Russia. Look at their kids. They live and study in US and Europe, they barely speak russian. They are being prepared to make business there, and the business is based on actives stolen from Russian people one way or another.

Why invest? Investment means you most likely get your money back after many years, while they have to be and they are ready to be estranged from money sources at any moment, pack their asses and flee.

I don't care if Putin is the head of this gang or he is just representing their interests as president. I want those guys not only be dismissable, but also be responsible for what they did and still do. What they do? The only thing they really do is converting their positions into property. And this started in late USSR, so there's actually no point in blaming them for not performing their duties.

[spooky lynx 73]

I don't blame Putin personally, but also all his team, the people he set to their positions, including those you listed above. Putin set them to their positions, they fuck everything up. Not a Putin's fault?

Many of those persons were in big politics long before Putin got descent power. So it is disputable does he have any real influence on them...

Putin abolishes governor elections in regions and sets loyal dumbasses to fuck up the rest and they succeed. Not a Putin's fault? This list is damn long...

I can say about my region that abolishment of governor election did not change anything. The roads are still a nightmare, local economy is ruined etc. At the same time nearby Penza is very clean and good-looking city with growing industry. Despite their governor wasn't elected. The same goes to Krasnodar and Rostov (I've travelled through those regions some weeks ago and can compare).

[dontknowhow 33]

 

It stands not for all 80%, though a big part of it.

so, assuming that Russia gets some decent press, how low does that 80% go? 50? 40? 30?

 

Why bullshit? I think everything is written correctly.

I think that bullshit is referred to the situation, not to the correctness of your statement.

 

What private companies do is a completely separate story. But I'm very concerned about what president, government, and state companies did. They did nothing of what they had to. Or even the opposite.

maybe it would also be fair to remember that the economy did improve with Putin, even if maybe not in the past years.

[pedeathtrian 99]

Many of those persons were in big politics long before Putin got descent power. So it is disputable does he have any real influence on them...

It is disputable, but it does not matter too much. If he had influence on them, he had to use it. He didn't. I don't need this Putin. If he had no influence on them, I don't need that Putin either.

Of course, I don't need all those persons from long before Putin too.

 

I can say about my region that abolishment of governor election did not change anything. The roads are still a nightmare, local economy is ruined etc. At the same time nearby Penza is very clean and good-looking city with growing industry. Despite their governor wasn't elected. The same goes to Krasnodar and Rostov (I've travelled through those regions some weeks ago and can compare).

Welcome to Omsk! The top5 industry region that hardly makes it to top40 in terms of level of life (and loses its positions day by day).

When you can't explain things with objective reasons, there are always subjective. I fed up with this already.

 

---

 

so, assuming that Russia gets some decent press, how low does that 80% go? 50? 40? 30?

My personal estimate is less than 20%.

 

maybe it would also be fair to remember that the economy did improve with Putin, even if maybe not in the past years.

There was no quality improve though, which was crucial to perform.

[Sanya 97]

 

And even this way, I don't believe they get their 80%. I insist, 80% is fake.

It is not a fake. Just people are satisfied with their current existence. Vote for the stability that now is, because people are afraid of change for the worse. Putin is ready to maintain stability on the present. People are afraid of a repeat of the 90s due to any revolutions.

[dontknowhow 33]

My personal estimate is less than 20%.

 

There was no quality improve though, which was crucial to perform.

Don't you think this goes a bit too far? I'm not exactly a Putin admirer, but if I were Russian I think I would find him better than Yeltsin.