Russia General

[vilas 477]

Yeah that´s their baseline rhetoric they use all the time. The evil west wants to destroy Russia, only Putin can help us.... :j:

but this rhetoric works and makes Russia much stronger than before,

and this rhetoric is fueled by mistakes in US/EU foreign politics of helping Islamists (which later they have to fight)

[SaOk 112]

Last night there was submarine hunt in front of Helsinki and depth charges used as warning. Its not even yet said it was russian, but russian press (Rossijskaja Gazeta) is already reporting false news that our secretary of defense (written as "minister of scandal" and surname spelled wrong) would have said it was russian. :rolleyes: :clap:

There is around 20 bad finnish speaking persons spamming all over finnish social media with their nonsense propaganda.

Edited April 28, 2015 by SaOk

[Caselius 94]

There was some news that some Russian medias are/were claiming that Finland is "mobilizing for war" (Using Bäckman as source FPDR)

FDF is sending letters to every reservists telling about their wartime position, mainly because of the 2015 Army reform which changed the wartime structure fully. I couldn't find much in English about this matter, However here is some general information of what is in the letter and some background: [YLE] Military reservists to be told what their post would be in "crisis situation"

Haglund said the mail-out was decided upon in 2013, following recommendations made by a 2010 Defence Forces review, which suggested keeping closer contact with the country’s former conscripts.

He refused to speculate on how Russia may interpret the move, and on any possible response. “The aim of this isn’t to give out sort of message at all [to Russia],†Haglund said.

More information about the hunt in English:

[YLE] Navy: Unable to confirm nature of underwater object

Basically every information so far about the object and it's origin is pure speculation until Navy releases more information about what has happened.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Leopard

[oxmox 73]

Russia cancels registration of opposition leader's party

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian officials have cancelled the registration of the political party led by Alexei Navalny, the anti-corruption activist who is one of President Vladimir Putin's most adamant critics.

The Justice Ministry said Tuesday that the Progress Party had not fulfilled a requirement to register operations in at least half of Russia's regions.

It was unclear if the ministry decision would affect Progress' intention to field candidates in regional elections this year. The party recently announced it was establishing a coalition with the opposition RPR-PARNAS party. That party's leaders included Boris Nemtsov, who was shot dead in February.

Another RPR-PARNAS leader, Mikhail Kasyanov, said the coalition was created "in consideration of any possible actions by the authorities and we will use all means to overcome difficulties," according the Tass news agency.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/862b2729ae604c63bf47cc8b6844efef/russia-cancels-registration-opposition-leaders-party

[Tonci87 163]

Second part

Honestly, the spirit in todays Russia is very much like it was in Germany before WW2. Ein Volk, Ein Reich, ein Führer. One people, one empire, one leader. If they want to see Fashists they just need to look into the mirror.

[oxmox 73]

Last night there was submarine hunt in front of Helsinki and depth charges used as warning. Its not even yet said it was russian, but russian press (Rossijskaja Gazeta) is already reporting false news that our secretary of defense (written as "minister of scandal" and surname spelled wrong) would have said it was russian. :rolleyes: :clap:

There is around 20 bad finnish speaking persons spamming all over finnish social media with their nonsense propaganda.

Maybe the submarine threat vanish after Finnland and Sweden joins NATO ...:bounce3:

Seriously, maybe Russia is doing really underwater operations ...who knows, only suspicions so far since last year when you add the other incident in Sweden. Its just interesting that even with modern technology it seems really hard to detect submarines.

Thats what one of the german main news magazine write about:

Suspicious Object in the Water

Finland bombards U-Boat close to Stockholm (FOCUS - google transl.)

The Finnish army According to media reports bombed an "underwater target" off the coast of Helsinki. The suspicious object was observed on Monday and Tuesday. A former submarine captain believes he knows who is behind it.

Frisk The former captain of the Swedish submarine fleet, Göran, believes he knows who is behind the underwater maneuvers in Finland. "Of course, the Russians," he told the newspaper "Aftonbladet" . "They have already demonstrated their aggression in Sweden in the past," said the former captain. He is sure: "Putin prepares for war."

Investigations are ongoing

With his assessment he is not alone. The chairman of the Swedish National Defence Commission, Allan Widman, said Tuesday in a speech: "Putin prepares for war against Russia, whether hot or cold."

Dropped by three clock at night three warning bombs

The Navy did not give any further details of where the object was observed or which object it is. The matter was still under investigation. In a press release the Ministry of Defence reported only that there were events going on inside the Finnish territory outside Helsinki.

In the morning again observed

*Haglund will not engage in speculation as to whether it was a foreign submarine, even if that were possible. "There was a strong suspicion that something was going under water that does not belong there," he said simply. Currently, there is probably no more acitivity on-site.

http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/vor-helsinki-finnland-bombardiert-verdaechtiges-u-boot_id_4644061.html

* Btw, does the Finnish Navy own any Submarines already ?

Edited April 28, 2015 by oxmox

[Caselius 94]

Map from one newspaper's website, originally taken from Finnish Navy report.

Some translations:

VL Turva = Border Guard Offshore patrol vessel "Turva"

OHJV Hanko = Missile fast attack craft "FNS Hanko"

ML Uusimaa = Minelayer "FNS Uusimaa"

Havainto = Sighting

Varoitus = Warning

alk. = shortenation for "beginning/from"

Maybe the submarine threat vanish after Finnland and Sweden joins NATO ...:bounce3:

The recently voted parliament is mainly NATO opposing, largest part (Centre) is not looking for membership and 2nd largest (The Finns) is neutral-to-opposing. National Coalition Party is the only one at the moment which is actively speaking about the membership so it seems that the good old "NATO-question" will have to wait some time again. I believe Sweden is not actively looking for NATO after them giving funds to the armed forces, but doing an neutral research on each possibility.

I think that at the moment Finnish-Swedish cooperation is more likely than both joining NATO.

* Btw, does the Finnish Navy own any Submarines already ?

No, we don't. Finland likes to obey treaties. Paris treaty prohibited Finland from having submarines and we had to scrap them. Even though the treaty was declared obsolete, we don't have submarines.

[mistyronin 1181]

(Yle, in English) Navy: Unable to confirm nature of underwater object

Navy chief of staff Admiral Juha Vauhkonen said that it’s not yet possible to say whether or not the underwater object detected in waters near Helsinki was a submarine. Speaking during a news conference Tuesday evening, Vauhkonen said that if the object does turn out to be a sub that violated Finnish territorial waters, the matter will be investigated by the Finnish Border Guard.

(Yle, in English) Coast Guard begins preliminary enquiry into suspected territorial violation

Criminal investigators are beginning to collect information relating to the suspected territorial violation by an as-yet unidentified underwater object in the Gulf of Finland Monday.

(BBC) Finland drops depth charges in 'submarine' alert

Finland's navy has dropped depth charges in waters near Helsinki as a warning to a suspected submarine.

An unidentified object was spotted on Monday within Finnish territorial waters. It was detected again early on Tuesday, the navy said.

The incident comes amid growing concern in the region over Russia's military exercises.

(Iltalehti, in Finnish) Submarine warned with depth bombs

- - -

Maybe the submarine threat vanish after Finnland and Sweden joins NATO ...:bounce3:

Seriously, maybe Russia is doing really underwater operations ...who knows, only suspicions so far since last year when you add the other incident in Sweden. Its just interesting that even with modern technology it seems really hard to detect submarines.

Maybe they were just tourist passing by like in Ukraine...

Well you should add also the Russian annoying a Finnish research ship, and also the air invasions of Finnish airspace.

It seems that Russia is working hard on getting Finland to join NATO.

Edited April 29, 2015 by MistyRonin

[astral4eg 10]

First part

Second part

Ordinary western anti-Russian propaganda, nothing new.

Why do not they create a similar story about Ukraine (if VICE News is positioning himself as the impartial media)? Because situation in Ukraine is much more interesting than in Russia, but this story we will never see, for understandable reasons.

In general, yes, in the Russian media situation is a bit tense. Promotes this slightly hostile rhetoric of almost all western countries.

To better understand, imagine that if Russia had arranged for a coup in Mexico, and began to send its "military trainers", for example. :rolleyes:

Edited April 29, 2015 by astral4eg

[ProfTournesol 956]

Ordinary western anti-Russian propaganda, nothing new.

You're are frightening me, my bad. Did you really watch those videos ?

[astral4eg 10]

You're are frightening me, my bad. Did you really watch those videos ?

Yes it is, where they show Putin "brainwashing population", and "mocks the opposition media"..

[sudayev 27]

You're are frightening me, my bad. Did you really watch those videos ?

I wonder what's so anti-Russian according to astral4g in showing social-engineering behind the putinjugend groups

[John Kozak 14]

I wonder what's so anti-Russian according to astral4g in showing social-engineering behind the putinjugend groups

It does not fit into the "First Channel Reality", so it is anti-russian propaganda. Easy.

[mistyronin 1181]

I wonder what's so anti-Russian according to astral4g in showing social-engineering behind the putinjugend groups

Because Putin = Russia according to astral4eg. So if you criticize anything he does, you are automatically "anti-Russian". You know, like in any authoritarian regime...

Thank God, Russia is something completely diff to what Putin represents.

[vilas 477]

I wonder what's so anti-Russian according to astral4g in showing social-engineering behind the putinjugend groups

everything that is not praising Putin or Russia is rusophobic , like "good old days" on one Russian forum about Arma/Operation Flashpoint - any addon which is NOT about Russian army was useless crap because it was not about Russian army

social engineering exist as we know since ages, since pyramids in Ancient Egypt, where people from ruling cast discovered religion as best mind-control, probably people in Russia see meaning of word "propaganda" or "mind control" only in Goebels, but not in other cases,

the most scary is that Russians see showing social engineering or lies of government as something anti-Russian , while in fact it is showing them how they are being cheated by their government,

if someone would show proofs of corruption of our government - in our civilisation - we would be grateful to see proofs how someone from our "elites" cheat us or tries to control us,

what some angry Poles did to TVN television van angry on lies told by this TV station ? angry people set fire under van of TVN some years ago ;) angry people attack journalists that lie,

in their case it is opposite, they identify with government like with love, they do not understand that they .... or rather it is wasting keyboard cause if for someone "might is right" - what can be changed if someone thinks "might is right" way of thinking,

you will never convince egoist, you will never convince nationalist that he may be mistaken , because they believe they are only right and rest is wrong,

there are nations/groups that praise freedom, there are nations/groups that cannot live free and be satisfied , probably in 30s Germans were not seeing they were wrong, with first bomb thrown by Luftwaffe they were thinking they are right, with first bomb thrown by RAF and USAF they were thinking they are victims, with last bombs thrown by RAF and USAF they were probably thinking "what was wrong" and now their kids know what was wrong,

i do not understand why they are not against such social engineering (called brain washing ) and such propaganda , we would be very against media that say lies, and we are angry when our media say lies, they aren't ,

probably they support this what you call putlerjugend, only thing that makes them angry is that it is not hidden, like this meme about woman logic:

http://www.vitamin-ha.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/More-Women-Logic-01.jpg

Putin wants to rebuild empire that threatens others, they love him for it, they are angry when proofs are being shown (reactions on Russian troops and vehicles in Ukraine were never "o my god, my government cheats me", just compare to reaction of Americans on "weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" , US citizens were angry they were cheated by their gov., compare to reaction of Russians here about tanks in Ukraine "fake, bullshit, rusophobia, we are strong and we can do what we want")

It does not fit into the "First Channel Reality", so it is anti-russian propaganda. Easy.

glad to hear that there are such people in Russia , not only "i am stronger, i can hit whoever i want because i can"

hank God, Russia is something completely diff to what Putin represents.

do not want to say about naivity... but ... Misty, dear Misty, Putin has 85% support, it is not cheated, not fake, Putin has great support , Hitler also had such support, Stalin had support - all thanx to media which were washing brains with propaganda,

we hate our politicians, we see them as thieves who cheat us, they love their president, because social benefits are better, because country is stronger, because of propaganda

[Tonci87 163]

Yeah, todays Russia is throwing around the same rhetoric you could see in the Soviet Union and in the Third Reich (everybody is out to kill us),

they use the same methods of control (strict control of the press and heavy propaganda, imprisonment of critics),

the same methods of building up nationalism (exclusive use of history books approved by the state, militarisation, nationalistic rhetoric, orchestrated marches),

every failure of the state is blamed on foreign powers out to destroy them or internal saboteurs,

and they use the same methods of building up a cult focused on the dear leader (only he can save us, mandatory picture in every official room, youth organisations that raise the next generations in the Führers spirit).

All of this is very concerning. Basically once you don´t have free press anymore your country is on a really bad way.

[mistyronin 1181]

do not want to say about naivity... but ... Misty, dear Misty, Putin has 85% support, it is not cheated, not fake, Putin has great support , Hitler also had such support, Stalin had support - all thanx to media which were washing brains with propaganda

First that 85% of support is the official data from the Kremlin... Really reliable source as you know...

And in any case, Russia is not only nowadays Russians, but a centennial nation, with a lot of culture, authors, feats, deeds, philosophy, etc.

I have myself a good amount of Russian friends and acquaintances, and only a few support (more or less) Putin.

[vilas 477]

First that 85% of support is the official data from the Kremlin... Really reliable source as you know...

And in any case, Russia is not only nowadays Russians, but a centennial nation, with a lot of culture, authors, feats, deeds, philosophy, etc.

I have myself a good amount of Russian friends and acquaintances, and only a few support (more or less) Putin.

culture of 0.1% of writers or music composers from 2 centuries ago have nothing to rest

how much percent of any society are book writers ? lol, you cannot say about country because few men there wrote some books 70 years ago or because few men make few operas 150 years ago,

it is like saying about Middle East because you found one Arab who is gay and who loves beacon, cause others in region would kill for it,

Master and Margerita is the best book , so what ? other books from Dostoyevsky are also top novels of the world literature,

does it change 123 years of occupation of my country or Stalin crimes ?

Germans made beautiful stuff during WW2 , look at stylish shape of MP44, Hugo Boss uniforms, Panther tank design,

so what ? does it change gas chambers ?

Germans in WW2 had best scientists, does it change anything ?

intelectual elites which are 1% of any society do not change anything

in every democracy or voting system only important thing is MAJORITY to vote government, rest is not important,

Russia is system in which people vote, so it is not important what 1 or 10% thinks,

it is important that majority votes for Putin , commies, Zhyrinovsky

Edited April 29, 2015 by vilas

[mistyronin 1181]

Vilas I'm a bit lost... You know that a nation is based in the culture and deeds right during centuries of years right?

Or you are gonna tell me now that the German Nation is Jew-annihilator for something that happened during 10 years? :j:

[vilas 477]

so you doubt Putin election effects ?

[mistyronin 1181]

so you doubt Putin election effects ?

Are you seriously asking me if I think that the elections in Russia are rigged? I thought it was pretty obvious. Candidates that are killed or sent to exile, mass propaganda, buying votes, oligarchs forcing their workers to vote to a certain candidate, etc.

A good article on the matter:

(The Guardian) Russia's presidential election: rigging is a delicate art

[vilas 477]

remember what one Russian said here some paaaaaaaaaaaaaages ago ? that someone from his family afraids of say anything against Putin because of people in job being afraid of physical attack... which means ? what does logic say ?

why that person afraid to say anything in job ? that boss will fire him? no that was said he afraid of co-workers which may attack this person,

why those people would attack ? cause they support and they are very devoted, to the level they can beat person who is against,

if you had elections totally falsified (for example party has 90% votes while only 10% people voted for it) and people would be angry and against - you would have riots, mass emigration etc.

are those people on those marches send there by force ?

i can believe in falsification of few percent more, maybe 10 percent more, but not 50% more

what people are being voted ?

- imperialistic Putin

- communists praising USSR which was criminal opressor to other countries,

- ultra-nationalist Zhyrinovsky

looking at reaction on Youtube, forums etc. i believe that Putin has majority support

i doubt in falsifying elections on level that doubles votes (like it was in Crimea in one city where number of voting was 120%)

i know few persons from Russia and they are very very very devoted to Putin

look at level of poverty and corruption during Yeltsin, those people really do believe in Putin,

Putin last months changed gun law, more Russians can buy gun, does such step is made by dictator who rules against nation ?

do you give guns to people who hate you ? no, you give gun to people whom you know that they won't aim at you (unless you are CIA in Middle East, lol )

Putin gave them a lot of reasons to love him (child support benefits that Poles , Ukrainians and many ex-commie countries may be jealous of)

only problem is that he is against other nations and has imperialistic ambitions - which makes him threat for others, but not threat inside,

he made his country stronger, more rich, people get guns - so they vote for him, but he also puts fingers in other countries - which makes him our enemy,

a lot of bad p.r. is also because he doesn't obey international corporation - this also must be said to be objective,

of course he is the richest oligarch in Russia and this also must be told , he steals a lot, but people live better during his rule, so they vote for him,

look at Hitler - he also made Germans more rich and moved economy up, cause industry worked for war, and there was later slavery job which made profits,

but of course Third Reich economy would crumble down without war, this is dangerous comparison from history,

btw. would US citizens would be such rich if not their wars abroad and their military industry ? for people in USA it is great, for people outside in some areas - not much ,

Edited April 29, 2015 by vilas

[ProfTournesol 956]

It's rare enough for the Russian Aerospace to be noticed :

(BBC) Russian spacecraft Progress M-27M 'out of control'

A Russian spacecraft delivering supplies to the International Space Station is out of control and may head back to Earth, unnamed officials say.

The unmanned cargo ship launched from Kazakhstan on Tuesday, but contact was lost with it soon afterwards.

The Russian news agency TASS reports that Progress M-27M is now orbiting in an uncontrolled spin.

Scientists may try again to control it, but it is now likely to break up on re-entering Earth's atmosphere.

[astral4eg 10]

i can believe in falsification of few percent more, maybe 10 percent more, but not 50% more

What about this one?

Kazakhstan's long-ruling president win election with 98 percent of the vote :)

If in fact, what is wrong with Putin?

[Tonci87 163]

What about this one?

Kazakhstan's long-ruling president win election with 98 percent of the vote :)

If in fact, what is wrong with Putin?

What isn´t?