Why America is NOT the greatest country in the world, any-more.

[dr death jm 117]

hmmm, Im just going to make a few statement's (Im not going to try and prove anything) google it if you question it.

president voting is a flaw (your vote does not count) "really" the rich donate and persuade with money (its a fact).because the rich "are running our country"

the news is controlled by the government, you only see on the news what they want you to see.(anything negative our country has don't is swept under the carpet)

ie: in the early 1980's did you know Ronald Raegan tried to forcefully remove the Navaho and hopi Indians off there reservation's.

or that the sue Indians still go to court to resolve a treaty made in the early 1800's (the black hills is south Dakota was given back to the sue it 1868, but in early 1868 some traveler found gold "So the sue never got there land back").

there's a higher tax brake for rich (why?) ....I mean its really sick..

the rich don't care about money? is it because they know our money is worthless? or is it because what ever "they do" pay out in taxes they earn back in a day or 2 while it takes a lower income months to recover.

I could go on and on ... BUT the fact is we are not free....

[BadHabitz 235]

hmmm, Im just going to make a few statement's (Im not going to try and prove anything) google it if you question it.

president voting is a flaw (your vote does not count) "really" the rich donate and persuade with money (its a fact).because the rich "are running our country"

the news is controlled by the government, you only see on the news what they want you to see.(anything negative our country has don't is swept under the carpet)

ie: in the early 1980's did you know Ronald Raegan tried to forcefully remove the Navaho and hopi Indians off there reservation's.

or that the sue Indians still go to court to resolve a treaty made in the early 1800's (the black hills is south Dakota was given back to the sue it 1868, but in early 1868 some traveler found gold "So the sue never got there land back").

there's a higher tax brake for rich (why?) ....I mean its really sick..

the rich don't care about money? is it because they know our money is worthless? or is it because what ever "they do" pay out in taxes they earn back in a day or 2 while it takes a lower income months to recover.

I could go on and on ... BUT the fact is we are not free....

Sioux indians...

Higher incomes have higher tax brackets because the thinking is that the more money you make, the more you should proportionally pay into the tax system. This can be avoided by being compensated through means other than income, which are normally taxed as capital gains. Steve Jobs famously declared that he was only taking $1 as income, and people cheered, not understanding that doing so prevented him from having to pay 45% in taxes in his income, but only 25% in capital gains. The reasoning behind the different rates is an incentive to invest money into the economy, which then receives a boost. The only caveat is that capital gains carries an element of risk.

As an American, I'd still rank my freedoms up against anyone elsewhere in the world.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I'll agree with you when people start sneaking out of the US, instead of sneaking in.

Maybe not the best standard of measuring greatness, it just means that people in Mexico would rather live in the US than Guatemala. :p

Anyway, this topic seems to me made purely for bothering Americans and their perceived greatness, which is kinda stupid. We also don't really need much discussions about it, in most statistical rankings the US does roughly (above) average compared to other first world countries.

[x3kj 1247]

Might it be that the rest of the world just gets this impression that americans think they are the greatest because of some american media? At least thats the impression i sometimes get (then again i dont watch american media permanently...). Oh and the trolling in youtube comments that deal with military hardware which always turn into verbal e-peen contest about who has the biggest. :D

[bonchie 39]

I foresee several different scenarios in the USA that can lead to a collaps.

First on the list is the poor vs the rich. Wich a practically nonexistent middle class and an ever greater divide between rich and poor this is bound to happen sooner or later. If the US plummets into a great economic crysis and many people loose their jobs things could get pretty hot.

The idea that the US has a non-existent middle class is laughable. Like ridiculously so.

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------

Might it be that the rest of the world just gets this impression that americans think they are the greatest because of some american media? At least thats the impression i sometimes get (then again i dont watch american media permanently...). Oh and the trolling in youtube comments that deal with military hardware which always turn into verbal e-peen contest about who has the biggest. :D

I see much more trolling among Russians on youtube who are convinced Stalin was awesome and the SU-27 family owns every plane ever. And don't dare question the Chinese's new stealth fighter. It's going to destroy everything.

Just saying.

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------

Hi all

In reply to BadHabitz

Then you agree.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24135021

As always follow the link to read the text in full.

Kind Regards walker

You are comparing a few hundred people of means (mostly giving up their citizenship to avoid taxes) to millions of Latin Americans.

That's about as intellectually bankrupt of an argument as I've ever seen.

Edited November 8, 2014 by bonchie

[mistyronin 1181]

Might it be that the rest of the world just gets this impression that americans think they are the greatest because of some american media? At least thats the impression i sometimes get (then again i dont watch american media permanently...). Oh and the trolling in youtube comments that deal with military hardware which always turn into verbal e-peen contest about who has the biggest. :D

Uhm I have checked some American media for a while ( I was subscribed to TIME for instance ), and usually they have a high degree of auto-critic, and never seen much autopropaganda. Unlike for instance Russia, where the Kremlin owns or funds most of the main media, and some of its channels are pure propaganda ( like RT ).

Funny fact, is that impression also is reflected in their citizens, mainly the US citizens I meet were really critic with their own country while most of the Russians I meet were quite nationalistic ( although not all, a few are also quite critic ).

In fact I have the feeling that the Cold War never ended in the Russian media, and they still see ghosts everywhere.

[bonchie 39]

@BadHabitz: Don't want to insult your national pride and I'm sure the US are not the worst country to grow up and live on this planet. However, I believe there is a fine line between patriotism and megalomania. There was a time where this attidute was pretty common in Germany and we all know how that turned out. I'm happy I had the chance to grow up in Germany but I'm realistic: It might as well have been another random central European or north American country, overall I don't think it's better or worse in the neighbourhood. In the end, we don't really have a choice what society we're born into and I've never really developed this national pride thing. Happy to live here but I wouldn't mind moving to another country if I feel I have better chances there.

@Tonci87: [DarkHumour]And tomorrow they'll think they have a functioning democracy.^^[/DarkHumour]

lol...comparing the US to pre-war Germany?

The US could of done whatever they wanted after WWII. Instead they spent billions to re-build Europe and fought the Soviet Unions attempted expansion into it in the decades afterward.

I mean seriously, I'll never understand the European hate for the US. Especially among countries that were liberated. It's one thing to disagree about some things but many Europeans are outright hostile toward Americans. And for what exactly?

---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 PM ----------

Uhm I have checked some American media for a while ( I was subscribed to TIME for instance ), and usually they have a high degree of auto-critic, and never seen much autopropaganda. Unlike for instance Russia, where the Kremlin owns or funds most of the main media, and some of its channels are pure propaganda ( like RT ).

Funny fact, is that impression also is reflected in their citizens, mainly the US citizens I meet were really critic with their own country while most of the Russians I meet were quite nationalistic ( although not all, a few are also quite critic ).

In fact I have the feeling that the Cold War never ended in the Russian media, and they still see ghosts everywhere.

Exactly. If anything the US media is highly self-deprecating and sympathetic to European views.

[eddo36 16]

Uhm I have checked some American media for a while ( I was subscribed to TIME for instance ), and usually they have a high degree of auto-critic, and never seen much autopropaganda. Unlike for instance Russia, where the Kremlin owns or funds most of the main media, and some of its channels are pure propaganda ( like RT ).

Funny fact, is that impression also is reflected in their citizens, mainly the US citizens I meet were really critic with their own country while most of the Russians I meet were quite nationalistic ( although not all, a few are also quite critic ).

In fact I have the feeling that the Cold War never ended in the Russian media, and they still see ghosts everywhere.

If the Russian people are happy with their government, then who are you to say Russia isn't a good government? Maybe the Cold War isn't over in the US either, if you view them as such. Works both ways.

lol...comparing the US to pre-war Germany?

The US could of done whatever they wanted after WWII. Instead they spent billions to re-build Europe and fought the Soviet Unions attempted expansion into it in the decades afterward.

I mean seriously, I'll never understand the European hate for the US. Especially among countries that were liberated. It's one thing to disagree about some things but many Europeans are outright hostile toward Americans. And for what exactly?

It's been a long time since WWII. None of us in this thread were even alive during that time. It's what your generation has done and is doing that's being judged by the people who live now.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Eddo36

[mistyronin 1181]

If the Russian people are happy with their government, then who are you to say Russia isn't a good government? Maybe the Cold War isn't over in the US either, if you view them as such. Works both ways.

First, Russia is a country not a Government. The Kremlin is.

Second, this is a forum of opinion, and I'm free to give mine as long as I respect the forum rules. And of course I can evaluate other governments, specially if is one that is directly threatening me and my family.

Third, the fact that IMO the Russia main media ( Kremlin funded ) lives in the Cold War, doesn't mean anyone else do. It doesn't work both ways.

I mean seriously, I'll never understand the European hate for the US. Especially among countries that were liberated. It's one thing to disagree about some things but many Europeans are outright hostile toward Americans. And for what exactly?

I don't think Europeans have any special hate against the US. They can criticize some of the US gov decisions ( like the war of Iraq ).

BTW there are a lot of countries that were not liberated, and if the US decided to invest in rebuild Europe was to achieve their own stability, to avoid the URSS imperialist expansion ( the same reason why the Operation Overlord was started, to prevent the Red Army to keep advancing after Berlin ) and also to keep having Europe as their main costumer. So it was a selfish decision.

Edited November 8, 2014 by MistyRonin

[IndeedPete 1038]

lol...comparing the US to pre-war Germany?

The US could of done whatever they wanted after WWII. Instead they spent billions to re-build Europe and fought the Soviet Unions attempted expansion into it in the decades afterward.

I mean seriously, I'll never understand the European hate for the US. Especially among countries that were liberated. It's one thing to disagree about some things but many Europeans are outright hostile toward Americans. And for what exactly?

I haven't compared the US with Nazi Germany, I've just pointed out the potential dangers that can arise from nationalism. Of course the US is not a facist country, but nor is it truly free.

To be fair, they didn't help rebuilding Europe out of pure courtesy. They had strategic interests and saw many potential allies against the Soviet Union.

I think you're misunderstanding critique as hatred. I don't hate the US, and so do most of the people around here I'd think. But there are many things I don't like about how the US acts (and acted), especially regarding foreign politics. And since they're always in the middle of things they need to be able to take some criticism. Not happy with my own government either, we could use some solid critique as well.

My whole intervention in this thread was based on the question if this rather naive view of living in the greatest country in the world really is a common thing among US-Americans. The handful Americans I've met so far didn't seem to think so.

[nodunit 397]

You think we are happy with what our government did? Wasting over a decade in Iraq because of "wmd's" when the supposed cause of our tragedy was Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan?

You think we are happy about the NDAA, about homeland security having absurd equipment they should have no right to, about our police force in certain cities becoming more militarized?

That we had active military vehicles hunting and locking down streets with a curfew while going on a manhunt after the Boston Marathon?

We don't like or trust our government, one side is just as extreme as the other with little middle ground.

Branches of our military are broke yet congress continues to pass bills, there is so much fear mongering of this national debt but they do nothing to reign back spending, they pass bills and exempt themselves from it.

Watching television is unbearable most of the time, its either brain rot or fear mongering on the news and don't get me started with the tosspots on fox and the prick that likes to speak over others whenever they prove him wrong on something.

We love our country yes but who doesn't love their own? To love your country doesn't mean that you must love much less trust your government, and while granted its a minority in the majority, no US citizen that I have spoken to has flatly stated "Yes I trust my government".

[negah 26]

Its interesting how some people here start saying "look at Russia, its much worse there" and at the same time that same people tell you it has nothing to do with the topic if you say "look at the USA, they start many more wars" in the Ukraine thread.

As for the alleged american respect for the European views.

That espionage debacle wasnt that far ago, however since those are our "friends" who spy on us its totally ok. Now if the Russians were caught spying (I dont say the dont do it), now then we would see a lot more sanctions which ruin our own economy.

Then the US say NATO should buy those Mistral ships. I wonder though why dont they say USA should buy them, they already sayd once that Germany has to buy those ships.

A german journalist Udo Ulfkotte has published the first book of his three book series on media control in Germany called "Bought Journalists". The English Wikipedia artikle is rather short so Ill post both

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udo_Ulfkotte

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udo_Ulfkotte

In that book he speaks about how the German media is controlled by politicians, secret services and industry. And those secret services include also the CIA (go on tell me Im a conspiracy theorist), who tell the german newspapers what kind of artcles they want to see. The interesting thing is, the German mainstream media is totally silent about it as if it never happened.

So we basically live in Europe, which is controlled by the US Government just the same way as they control their own people. You cant call Europe a US colony directly, but it gets pretty close in my opinion.

Edited November 8, 2014 by negah

[Tonci87 163]

lol...comparing the US to pre-war Germany?

The US could of done whatever they wanted after WWII. Instead they spent billions to re-build Europe and fought the Soviet Unions attempted expansion into it in the decades afterward.

I mean seriously, I'll never understand the European hate for the US. Especially among countries that were liberated. It's one thing to disagree about some things but many Europeans are outright hostile toward Americans. And for what exactly?

---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 PM ----------

Exactly. If anything the US media is highly self-deprecating and sympathetic to European views.

Dude I don´t think anybody here hates the US, or it´s cititzens, but your government is pretty unpopular around here, especially since the spy scandal (fuck the German Government for saying it´s OK, no it´s not!). And only having two parties that do essentially the same things once they get in power and that are bribed advised by the same Lobby groups is something many europeans can´t understand. (Although things aren´t that much different with more parties involved.....)

[bonchie 39]

It's been a long time since WWII. None of us in this thread were even alive during that time. It's what your generation has done and is doing that's being judged by the people who live now.

And what exactly has been done? Or is this just whining about the Iraq War that a dozen European nations participated in?

---------- Post added at 07:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 AM ----------

I don't think Europeans have any special hate against the US. They can criticize some of the US gov decisions ( like the war of Iraq ).

BTW there are a lot of countries that were not liberated, and if the US decided to invest in rebuild Europe was to achieve their own stability, to avoid the URSS imperialist expansion ( the same reason why the Operation Overlord was started, to prevent the Red Army to keep advancing after Berlin ) and also to keep having Europe as their main costumer. So it was a selfish decision.

So you'd of rather us not been "selfish" and left you to devices of Stalin? Because he absolutely would of kept expanding had the US and Brits not fought into Germany to essentially stop them.

I understand it was mutually beneficial, but that doesn't mean Europeans didn't have the most to gain from re-building Europe.

---------- Post added at 07:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 AM ----------

I haven't compared the US with Nazi Germany, I've just pointed out the potential dangers that can arise from nationalism. Of course the US is not a facist country, but nor is it truly free.

To be fair, they didn't help rebuilding Europe out of pure courtesy. They had strategic interests and saw many potential allies against the Soviet Union.

I think you're misunderstanding critique as hatred. I don't hate the US, and so do most of the people around here I'd think. But there are many things I don't like about how the US acts (and acted), especially regarding foreign politics. And since they're always in the middle of things they need to be able to take some criticism. Not happy with my own government either, we could use some solid critique as well.

My whole intervention in this thread was based on the question if this rather naive view of living in the greatest country in the world really is a common thing among US-Americans. The handful Americans I've met so far didn't seem to think so.

You think modern Germany isn't nationalistic?

Have you seen how Germany takes advantage of the Euro nations? How they benefit from a massive trade imbalance and are able to manipulate the Euro's standardized value across Europe to hurt other countries like Greece, who desperately need the ability to deflate their currency in order to compete? Every country is nationalistic. Even the poorest in Africa. And they all work for their own interests.

---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------

Dude I don´t think anybody here hates the US, or it´s cititzens, but your government is pretty unpopular around here, especially since the spy scandal (fuck the German Government for saying it´s OK, no it´s not!). And only having two parties that do essentially the same things once they get in power and that are bribed advised by the same Lobby groups is something many europeans can´t understand. (Although things aren´t that much different with more parties involved.....)

You think Germany doesn't have assets in the US? Seriously? It's 100% they have and still do in the past decade. Everyone spies on everyone.

No less then two days after that incident, they exposed two German spies in the US.

I'm not telling any of you guys to love the US, but look in the mirror sometimes. The EU countries are just as screwed up and self-serving in plenty of ways.

---------- Post added at 08:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 AM ----------

Its interesting how some people here start saying "look at Russia, its much worse there" and at the same time that same people tell you it has nothing to do with the topic if you say "look at the USA, they start many more wars" in the Ukraine thread.

What Russia is doing in Crimea has zero to do with simply "starting wars." Russia is trying to annex a sovereign country.

As for the alleged american respect for the European views.

That espionage debacle wasnt that far ago, however since those are our "friends" who spy on us its totally ok. Now if the Russians were caught spying (I dont say the dont do it), now then we would see a lot more sanctions which ruin our own economy.

Then the US say NATO should buy those Mistral ships. I wonder though why dont they say USA should buy them, they already sayd once that Germany has to buy those ships.

Again, grow up and live in the real world. Everyone spies on everyone. That's a proven fact.

A german journalist Udo Ulfkotte has published the first book of his three book series on media control in Germany called "Bought Journalists". The English Wikipedia artikle is rather short so Ill post both

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udo_Ulfkotte

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udo_Ulfkotte

In that book he speaks about how the German media is controlled by politicians, secret services and industry. And those secret services include also the CIA (go on tell me Im a conspiracy theorist), who tell the german newspapers what kind of artcles they want to see. The interesting thing is, the German mainstream media is totally silent about it as if it never happened.

So we basically live in Europe, which is controlled by the US Government just the same way as they control their own people. You cant call Europe a US colony directly, but it gets pretty close in my opinion.

lol...The big bad US boogeyman is controlling Germany. Nice.

Edited November 8, 2014 by bonchie

[negah 26]

You think modern Germany isn't nationalistic?

Have you seen how Germany takes advantage of the Euro nations? How they benefit from a massive trade imbalance and are able to manipulate the Euro's standardized value across Europe to hurt other countries like Greece, who desperately need the ability to deflate their currency in order to compete? Every country is nationalistic. Even the poorest in Africa. And they all work for their own interests.

Nationalistic and expansionalistic are two different things.

30% (no kidding) of german elementary school students are of non german origin. With each year you see more and more asian, african and arab faces on the streets and more and more mixed families.

No I wouldnt call modern Germany nationalistic.

However you are right that Germany is trying to expand its influence in Europe by economical means abusing the EU.

lol...The big bad US boogeyman is controlling Germany. Nice.

Well no one of the german officials has denied that US secret services are controlling the german media, e.g. indirectly controlling the public opinion of german people.

The media and the govt are simply not talkingabout it at all, instead screaming about how evil russians are suddenly flying their planes somewhere near NATO space (which they do fo 60 years now or so) to divert the interest of the people from internal problems.

USA are basically intervening into internal affairs of another country, which is against international law they pretend to be protecting. But since when did US care about international law anyway?

What Russia is doing in Crimea has zero to do with simply "starting wars." Russia is trying to annex a sovereign country.

How many people were killed in Crimea? 2?

And how many civilians have died in recent big US led Operations?

Lets see:

Afghanistan: 18,000-20,000 (Wikipedia)

Iraq: 110,591-120,816 (Wikipedia)

Drone Attacks in Pakistan: 416 and 951 civilians, including 168 to 200 children(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/obama-drone-program-anniversary_n_4654825.html)

But its OK, the US aren't annexing someone, they just invade other countries on some wague pretends and butcher countless civilians there. Everything is fine.

Edited November 8, 2014 by negah
added more stuff

[bonchie 39]

Nationalistic and expansionalistic are two different things.

30% (no kidding) of german elementary school students are of non german origin. With each year you see more and more asian, african and arab faces on the streets and more and more mixed families.

No I wouldnt call modern Germany nationalistic.

However you are right that Germany is trying to expand its influence in Europe by economical means abusing the EU.

Sorry, but by no definition is the US expansionalistic (I don't even think that's a word). You mean imperialistic, and again, by no definition is the US that. Fighting a war is not what imperialism is. Founding colonies and capturing territory is imperialism. Even in the crap storm that was Iraq, we handed the country right back over and didn't even seek reparations.

And that's great for Germany, but come on, the US is the most diverse country in the world by the numbers. If we are nationalistic, then I have no idea what Switzerland is with their strict immigration laws.

[Tonci87 163]

Sorry, but by no definition is the US expansionalistic (I don't even think that's a word). You mean imperialistic, and again, by no definition is the US that. Fighting a war is not what imperialism is. Founding colonies and capturing territory is imperialism. Even in the crap storm that was Iraq, we handed the country right back over and didn't even seek reparations.

And that's great for Germany, but come on, the US is the most diverse country in the world by the numbers. If we are nationalistic, then I have no idea what Switzerland is with their strict immigration laws.

Reparations? For what? The US fucked up their country, not the other way around.

[bonchie 39]

This all usually comes down to the Iraq war. I get it.

But come on, what if US citizens decided to hate Germans forever over WW2? Or the UK over the war of 1812? Countries make mistakes.

Every major war before Iraq (I'm not counting skirmishes like Somalia) fought by the US was in defense of an Ally. Korea, Vietnam, 1st Gulf War. Afghanistan was provoked. There's not this grand history of American imperialism as is often painted. We've spent the last 50 years, like the EU countries, handing back colonies and territory.

So we made one mistake ousting Saddam in Iraq. Even then, why is that such a big deal to Europeans? We are the ones who lost thousands of lives. And it's not like Saddam was a good little boy. He murdered hundreds of thousands of people. We shouldn't of went in, but it's not like we overthrew a Saint or something. I get the opposition. The US government says it was a mistake. The US people overwhelmingly say it was a mistake. I don't get how that issue suddenly means Europeans have to despise the US now. But hey, whatever.

---------- Post added at 08:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------

Reparations? For what? The US fucked up their country, not the other way around.

We could of easily seized oil to pay for the war. We didn't.

Germany fucked up a lot of countries in their past as well. A hell of a lot more. Maybe take a step down off the high horse.

Edited November 8, 2014 by bonchie

[Tonci87 163]

This all usually comes down to the Iraq war. I get it.

But come on, what if US citizens decided to hate Germans forever over WW2? Or the UK over the war of 1812? Countries make mistakes.

Every major war before Iraq (I'm not counting skirmishes like Somalia) fought by the US was in defense of an Ally. Korea, Vietnam, 1st Gulf War. Afghanistan was provoked. There's not this grand history of American imperialism as is often painted. We've spent the last 50 years, like the EU countries, handing back colonies and territory.

So we made one mistake ousting Saddam in Iraq. Even then, why is that such a big deal to Europeans? We are the ones who lost thousands of lives. And it's not like Saddam was a good little boy. He murdered hundreds of thousands of people. We shouldn't of went in, but it's not like we overthrew a Saint or something. I get the opposition. I don't get how that issue suddenly means Europeans have to despise the US now. But hey, whatever.

---------- Post added at 08:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 AM ----------

We could of easily seized oil to pay for the war. We didn't.

Germany fucked up a lot of countries in their past as well. A hell of a lot more. Maybe take a step down off the high horse.

First: I´m not German

Second Germany did pay reparations for their world wars. HUGE reparations. Basically they were robbed of everything. Two times!

Third: You are not making a lot of sense.....

[bonchie 39]

First: I´m not German

Your location is Germany, and you obviously benefit from the country whether you are German or not.

Second Germany did pay reparation for their world wars. HUGE reparations

And you think the US didn't pay to re-build Iraq? We spent tens of billions doing so and still send them billions every year in support.

I'm half-Syrian. I have family in Baghdad. As a family we didn't support the war. But pretending Iraq was a good place under Saddam is also silly. I had an uncle who was killed by Saddam. There's documented proof of nearly 300k murders under his regime of his people. So yeah, we screwed up Iraq, but it was already pretty screwed up.

Third: You are not making a lot of sense.....

I'm making plenty of sense. There's no logical reason the Iraq War should be such a definitive issue among European/US citizen relations. I can understand saying "they shouldn't of done that," but it shouldn't define the relationship.

Edited November 8, 2014 by bonchie

[Tonci87 163]

Your location is Germany, and you obviously benefit from the country whether you are German or not.

And you think the US didn't pay to re-build Iraq? We spent tens of billions doing so and still send them billions every year in support.

I'm making plenty of sense.

No you are not. You claim that the US is oh so generous because it didn´t make the destroyed and bombed out Iraq pay reparations. That is pretty fucked up thinking right there.

[bonchie 39]

No you are not. You claim that the US is oh so generous because it didn´t make the destroyed and bombed out Iraq pay reparations. That is pretty fucked up thinking right there.

Forget it. I clearly explained what I meant by that. I didn't mean the Iraqi government paying money. I mean the US didn't seize oil fields like it was often said they'd do.

[Tonci87 163]

Forget it. I clearly explained what I meant by that. I didn't mean the Iraqi government paying money. I mean the US didn't seize oil fields like it was often said they'd do.

So it´s a good thing that the US just destroyed the country and were generous enough to not rob it?

[bonchie 39]

So it´s a good thing that the US just destroyed the country and were generous enough to not rob it?

Maybe you lack reading comprehension and should actually follow the line of posts to see what I was responding too before you jump in and comment.

My post was in response to someone charging imperialism by the US. If the US were imperialistic, they'd of seized all the oil and set up a colony. So while they shouldn't of went into Iraq, they are not imperialistic by any definition. That was the only purpose of my post. Not to assert anything further.

Trust me, I'm not here to argue about the Iraq War. But these posts have pretty much confirmed what I said. These tensions all pretty much come down to the Iraq War (as shown by your continued pushing of the issue). And while I understand the disagreement, I don't get why we have to let that be such a defining issue in citizen relations between countries that have been allies for a century or more. That's just my opinion.

Edited November 8, 2014 by bonchie

[IndeedPete 1038]

Dude I don´t think anybody here hates the US, or it´s cititzens, but your government is pretty unpopular around here, especially since the spy scandal (fuck the German Government for saying it´s OK, no it´s not!). And only having two parties that do essentially the same things once they get in power and that are bribed advised by the same Lobby groups is something many europeans can´t understand. (Although things aren´t that much different with more parties involved.....)

But we should be more angry with out own government. It's called "NSA Scandal" but the truth is that BND, MAD and Verfassungschutz use the same crooky techniques and shady methods as NSA, CIA, Homeland Security, British GCHQ and every other intelligence agency of the "Free World". That's probably one reason why our government tries to derail the parliament's NSA commission whereever possible. And to be fair with the two governing parties having the effective majority in the parliament the seperation of powers is de facto non-existent. They can do anything they want but why should we bother? I mean "Deutschland geht es gut und das ist ein Grund zur Freude", right? xX

You think modern Germany isn't nationalistic?

Have you seen how Germany takes advantage of the Euro nations? How they benefit from a massive trade imbalance and are able to manipulate the Euro's standardized value across Europe to hurt other countries like Greece, who desperately need the ability to deflate their currency in order to compete? Every country is nationalistic. Even the poorest in Africa. And they all work for their own interests.

Not in the way that was discussed in the beginning of this thread. Within the last twenty years things like patriotism were slowly growing but I doubt we're nationalistic. That doesn't mean we have problems. Behind closed doors subtle racism, prejudice and fear / hatred towards foreigners and refugees is sadly a common thing among certain parts of society. (Believe me, I've had first hand experience.) Some politicians even do that in public. *Cough* CSU *Cough*

Yes, our government acts opportunisitc and selfish. I'm not surprised that we offered loans to Greece and at the same time told them to spend the money on German products (submarines FPDR). And then the mass media comes and says "the Greek people are taking our valuable tax money", Germans are furious at the Greek, how they can do that? Greedy Greeks! (Well, they somehow had it coming with their own problems regarding corruption and not paying taxes.) But as long as too many Germans are happy with their government (I'm not) nothing will change and we will continue ripping off other countries, just like our friends (or was it the big brohter) overseas.