Russian ( Armed Forces ) harassment of the Nordics.

[surpher 1]

(The Aviationist) German Typhoons have intercepted 7 Russian Air Force combat planes over the Baltic Sea today

According to the Latvian military, on Oct. 28, the German Air Force Eurofighter jets on QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) at Amari, Estonia, to provide NATO Baltic Air Policing were scrambled to intercept seven Russian Air Force planes flying in international airspace over the Baltic Sea.

(TV2.no) Norwegian F-16 aircraft followed the Russian bombers along the coast

Wednesday night also NATO issued a press release about the Russian activity. The press release stated that a total of eight Russian aircraft was observed on radar.

In addition to the four Tupolev TU-95 aircraft, it was also observed four tanker of type Ilyushin Il-78. Six of the planes turned and flew north-east towards Russia, while two of the planes continued west along the Norwegian coast.

Over the North Sea, the two planes identified by British aircraft. On the west coast that Portugal was the aircraft later observed by the Portuguese Air Force, writes NATO press release.

(NATO) NATO Tracks Large-Scale Russian Air Activity in Europe

NATO detected and monitored four groups of Russian military aircraft conducting significant military manoeuvers in European airspace over the Baltic Sea, North Sea/Atlantic Ocean, and Black Sea on 28 and 29 October 2014. These sizable Russian flights represent an unusual level of air activity over European airspace.

Edited October 29, 2014 by surpher

[x3kj 1247]

...so the whole fuss just a media hype ? So much bullshit recently in the media and even from politicians (i.e. division of Ukraine with Poland/Russia)

In german media this is common place. Many critics say that german media wants to create a fear of russia/ prepare the public for a possible war. And there are alot of critics. If one of those speaks out in mainstream media he is either ridiculed, cut off or denounced in other ways. Just recently the advisory board of one of the two largest government TV channels publicy criticised the channels programs for having anti-russian tendencies.

http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/tv/ard-streit-um-ukraine-berichterstattung-a-993304.html

Austrian Ex-EU Parliament Member Ewald Stadler also often claimed EU Parliament acted like a propaganda instrument of NATO/ special foreign interests/ mass mainstream media.

(if you speak german

). He was recently accused of blackmailing another politician with some old nazi-time photographs (that means no independent witnesses). Either that is true, or it's an attempt to denounce him /silence him.

Russia gives them plenty of opportunities to blame them for offensive activities of course. And if none can be found, just make one up. If it's in the news, it cant be wrong after all...

[mistyronin 1181]

Russia gives them plenty of opportunities to blame them for offensive activities of course. And if none can be found, just make one up. If it's in the news, it cant be wrong after all...

In fact one only has to read Russian mainstream news ( the Kremlin funded one ), to see how the hatred against everything no-Russian is promoted ( a big stress in RT ). There has already been proven a lot of wrong or made up information ( especially RT and Rossiya 1 ) using Gulf War, Syria War and other conflicts footage.

On the other hand, numerous sources have been reporting the Russian movements here in the Nordics, some of them I could check personally.

[x3kj 1247]

On the other hand, numerous sources have been reporting the Russian movements here in the Nordics, some of them I could check personally.

Yes... then again, it's also indirectly manipulative when you put something in the media and when you dont, isnt it? I don't know how often before this ukraine thing russian planes flew over the baltic sea in international airspace, but i'm sure as hell that nobody even bothered to mention it when it occured. Now they are trying to sell it as a new thing i feel.

(in fact, i watched some older footage from Dirk Müller, German Finance Market Analyst and popular critic, and he spoke about the exact same information. From July this year. It's repeated over and over again to suggest how "threatening" Puting is).

Maybe it has gone more frequent - but the escalation/ grow in military force isn't just one sided is it? When NATO executed manouvres IN Ukraine with Ukraine military that's ok, but Russians having their military in their own territory close to the border is escalating? It's ridiculous.

And isn't "intercepting" something to deterr an enemy? When in fact, what they are doing is just accompanying them/shadow them? Choice of words.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Fennek

[surpher 1]

(BBC) RAF jet 'threatens to shoot down' cargo plane in Kent

Two RAF Typhoons scrambled to intercept the Russian-made aircraft, breaking the sound barrier and creating a sonic boom.

They escorted the plane to Stansted Airport, where it was surrounded by police officers as it landed at 17:15GMT.

[Jona33 51]

(BBC) RAF jet 'threatens to shoot down' cargo plane in Kent

This is an odd case of the media over stressing the Russian connection here, sure it may be a Russian made aircraft but if I remember correctly it was a Latvian operator and probably just routine radio trouble. The Russians made a lot of aircraft and sold them off so it's hardly surprising that it was a "Russian made aircraft".

[oxmox 73]

Yes... then again, it's also indirectly manipulative when you put something in the media and when you dont, isnt it? I don't know how often before this ukraine thing russian planes flew over the baltic sea in international airspace, but i'm sure as hell that nobody even bothered to mention it when it occured. Now they are trying to sell it as a new thing i feel.

(in fact, i watched some older footage from Dirk Müller, German Finance Market Analyst and popular critic, and he spoke about the exact same information. From July this year. It's repeated over and over again to suggest how "threatening" Puting is).

Maybe it has gone more frequent - but the escalation/ grow in military force isn't just one sided is it? When NATO executed manouvres IN Ukraine with Ukraine military that's ok, but Russians having their military in their own territory close to the border is escalating? It's ridiculous.

And isn't "intercepting" something to deterr an enemy? When in fact, what they are doing is just accompanying them/shadow them? Choice of words.

Several newspapers in Germany did release an article from the german news agency dpa. As an example the leading Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) did release an article with the title "Russian Fighter Jets infiltrating european airspace"*...they changed the title some hours later to "Russian Bombers over Northsea".

* when the russians overfly moscow they are in european airspace.

You still find some news with the original title. Other big news magazines/newspapers did release articles with the following title i.e. die Welt. "Russian military infiltrates european airspace".

There are more russian manouvres this year and likely the Ukraine conflict/worsen relationship between NATO countries and russia is one of the reason. The russians are probably testing the military readiness of NATO countries unexpected and of course NATO has to be on alert in such situations. Reading the news today, they tell that russians did not violate NATO airspace and stayed in international airspace and Merkel is not worried at all.

Edited October 30, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

I don't know how often before this ukraine thing russian planes flew over the baltic sea in international airspace, but i'm sure as hell that nobody even bothered to mention it when it occured. Now they are trying to sell it as a new thing i feel.

It was way less often, and it was reported in the news each and every time. And no, we are not talking about international airspace but national airspace Swedish/Finnish/Baltics that Russia invaded.

When NATO executed manouvres IN Ukraine with Ukraine military that's ok, but Russians having their military in their own territory close to the border is escalating? It's ridiculous.

We are not talking about Russian soldiers close to Ukraine, but inside. They invaded Crimea first ( recognized by Putin himself ) and later they got in Eastern Ukraine. Obviously without the Ukraine's legit Gov. authorization.

The NATO exercises were authorized, and far in western Ukraine not in the Russian border.

[maturin 12]

Russia's harassment of Finland and Sweden just go to show how all Putin's intense whining about NATO expansion is bullshit. If NATO never existed, he would still find some excuse to bully and dominate all his neighbors.

[x3kj 1247]

The NATO exercises were authorized, and far in western Ukraine not in the Russian border.

Why? Because Nato sponsered power to that non-elected temporary government. It's not about authorization, the authorization holds no value. Separatists could claim to authorize russia to go into their territory. Unacceptable to west, but completely identical to their manouver. Double Morale. It's about threatening each other. If NATO had no interest of escalation with russia they wouldnt have made so much drumming against how evil the old president was and how evil und unhumane imprisonment of criminal Timochenko was (which it wasn't, confirmed by western visitors - except this doesnt fit into western propaganda so is never mentioned) during maidan. In germany during that time they had a nationwide (ridiculous) case of defalcation of a major because of 720€. Now check again how much Timochenko caused damage. Double Morale and really ridiculous.

And they wouldn't have supported it so intensively (openly in media and covertly with secret services) if they had no special interest in that area.

And no, we are not talking about international airspace but national airspace Swedish/Finnish/Baltics that Russia invaded.

Maybe, i dont know. What is mentioned in the media is beyond invasion of national airspace however. They mention how russia flies in international airspace too, making it sound as if that was illegal/dangerous as well to the "mass media consumer" without directly saying it. Creating russiophobia in those that don't think for themself. A form of propaganda.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Fennek

[Brisse 78]

Maybe, i dont know. What is mentioned in the media is beyond invasion of national airspace however.

They have very much been in national airspace, and not only above territorial waters, but even over land areas. I had Russian military aircraft literally flying above the roof of my house before being intercepted.

[Caselius 94]

Maybe, i dont know. What is mentioned in the media is beyond invasion of national airspace however. They mention how russia flies in international airspace too, making it sound as if that was illegal/dangerous as well to the "mass media consumer" without directly saying it. Creating russiophobia in those that don't think for themself. A form of propaganda.

Finnish & Swedish Air Forces have been intercepting Russian planes crossing in to their airspace quite recently. There were 3 violations of Finnish airspace in one week during last month for example.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/third_russian_airspace_violation_in_a_week_finland_steps_up_air_surveillance/7438235

[oxmox 73]

Yes, allegedly russian airplanes did enter finnish and swedish airspace in the last weeks/months. And these incidents are not new since they did happen regularly over the years, but this year a higher freuqency of air activity is noticeable.

List of finnish airspace incursions, not sure if the list is complete :

A new report today - Russian bombers interecepted close to Portugal:

Portugal scrambles jets again to intercept Russian bombers

Portugal scrambled F-16 jet fighters for the second time this week on Friday to intercept Russian bombers in the international air space along its coast ...

"This means that the system worked again ... The Air Force is ready to carry out these missions every time that the NATO air command requests this," he said.

NATO has conducted more than 100 intercepts of Russian aircraft so far this year, about three times as many as in 2013, before the confrontation with Moscow over separatist revolts in ex-Soviet Ukraine soured relations.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/31/uk-nato-portugal-russia-idUKKBN0IK1TD20141031

Edited October 31, 2014 by oxmox

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, Russians are playing a very childish game there, which could be dangerous one day.

[oxmox 73]

Yeah, Russians are playing a very childish game there, which could be dangerous one day.

The dangerous part ist the civilian air travel when such bigger manouvres are taking part without announcements. Parts of the airspace is filled with civilian airplanes.

Russia conducts maneuvers in NATO airspace

Russia has conducted "significant military maneuvers" in European airspace, NATO has said, possibly endangering civil air travel.

In some of the cases, Russia had not sent maneuver details, or the aircraft had not kept radio contact with air traffic controllers, NATO said. The flights could thus pose a potential risk for civil air travel. Though Russia had not violated NATO airspace - unlike last week when a spy plane crossed into Estonian airspace - such a high number of sorties were rare in one day, NATO said.

"We see Russian aircraft near our airspace on a regular basis," a Norwegian military spokesman said, adding, "but what was unusual is that it was a large number of aircraft and pushed further south than we normally see."

"Scrambles and intercepts are standard procedure when an unknown aircraft approaches NATO airspace," the organization said.

http://www.dw.de/russia-conducts-maneuvers-in-nato-airspace-as-it-waits-for-french-warships/a-18029072

There are ongoing NATO airforce manoeuvres in the baltics and NATO want to reinforce the region. The NATO did triple its military fighter contingent in the baltic states since April. Poland did announce to move reinforcements to their east boarders. It is likely the reason why russia is doing air manouvres currently, flexing muscles and showing that they still exist.

If you understand german:

http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/nato-russland-flieger-103.html

Edited October 31, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

The dangerous part ist the civilian air travel when such bigger manouvres are taking part without announcements. Parts of the airspace is filled with civilian airplanes.

Well there are two "different dangerous situations" one is that if by mistake a weapon system is shoot or a maneuver cause a crash, and the other as you well said if a Civilian Aircraft crash against one of the Russian Military planes that don't even use transponder, so are virtually invisible to civilian aircarft.

[surpher 1]

(ITV News) RAF Typhoons 'escort' Russian bomber through UK airspace

RAF Typhoons intercepted a Russian Bear bomber as it approached UK airspace yesterday, the second flypast by aircraft from Vladimir Putin's air force in three days, the Ministry of Defence said.

[x3kj 1247]

In that respect i would not be surprised if Western Spy Planes do the same thing. We just dont see it in our media. Just like russians propably dont see reports of their planes flying currently over other countries.

(US U-Boat and 'Spyplane' in August). It's no proof, but assuming that NATO only relies on satellite data would be silly imo. Note that it says in the news that the plane penetrated the russian border... Edited November 1, 2014 by Fennek

[Brisse 78]

SR-71 Blackbird's violated Swedish airspace regularly when they were in service, but there have not been much reports of such activity in recent times.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-65940.html

[Tonci87 163]

SR-71 Blackbird's violated Swedish airspace regularly when they were in service, but there have not been much reports of such activity in recent times.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-65940.html

I wonder if US and NATO Aircraft are allowed to travel through swedish airspace now. Formally Sweden was always neutral, but during the cold war they leaned more to the Nato side, especially after a Soviet fighter was ordered to shoot down one of their planes in international airspace (and did exactly that). If they now again favour NATO over Russia then Russia really only has itself to blaim.

[Brisse 78]

NATO and other western air forces are often invited to exercises here in Sweden, but no, they are not allowed to travel through our airspace uninvited. There was an incident earlier this year when a US RC-135 entered our airspace without authorization.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/02/us/us-spy-plane/index.html

Edited November 2, 2014 by Brisse
Added link

[x3kj 1247]

If they now again favour NATO over Russia then Russia really only has itself to blaim.

If i pulled the strings in the west with expansionary intensions i would provoke as many russian incursions into their airspace as possible... and maybe set off u-boat alarms/sightings to steer the public into joining NATO (against gov intention - according to what some said here)... The puppetmasters of the west have nothing to lose in this entire conflict. Europe industrial economy loses, but that's hardly a concern for the puppeteers (if not even a secondary goal).

[surpher 1]

(BarentsObserver) Russia plays nuclear war-games in Barents Region

Russia has over the last 72 hours tested its entire nuclear triad consisting of strategic bombers; submarines and this ICBM launched Saturday morning.

[Tonci87 163]

If i pulled the strings in the west with expansionary intensions i would provoke as many russian incursions into their airspace as possible... and maybe set off u-boat alarms/sightings to steer the public into joining NATO (against gov intention - according to what some said here)... The puppetmasters of the west have nothing to lose in this entire conflict. Europe industrial economy loses, but that's hardly a concern for the puppeteers (if not even a secondary goal).

Even if that were the case it would be much less effective if Russia didn´t act like they did during the cold war.... Them invading neighbour countries also doesn´t help to build trust.

[maturin 12]

Europe industrial economy loses, but that's hardly a concern for the puppeteers (if not even a secondary goal).

A recession in Europe is the single greatest threat to the American economy and politically lethal to the current governing party of the United States.

Has it ever occurred to you that opponents of American foreign policy would be more effective politically if they did not embrace such idiocy and live in a fantasy world?