Russian ( Armed Forces ) harassment of the Nordics.

[mistyronin 1181]

I can't believe it! A proper unbiased RT report! :bounce3:

( RT )Swedish military widen hunt for ‘damaged Russian submarine’, Moscow says all subs OK

[surpher 1]

Here is a PDF of the presentation (19/10/2014)

[mistyronin 1181]

Here is a PDF of the presentation (19/10/2014)

Isn't that the route the Viking Line ships take? Ã…bo/Turku-Stockholm?

EDIT

I checked and it wasn't, the main cruise route is a bit above, but its anyway quite worrying.

Edited October 19, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Brisse 78]

Actually, if you analyse the official Russian statement literally, you will find that they did not deny that Russian vessels are operating in foreign territory. The only thing they denied was that there would be a "damaged russian submarine" in foreign waters.

Excellent report, Brisse. Do anyone know where the picture is taken?

The published picture is from the observation on sunday. If you look in the .pdf posted by surpher and go to page 5, then it is marked by the circle furthest to the south.

[Brisse 78]

HMS Stockholm moved at high speed to a new position further southeast a few minutes ago.

Meanwhile, former foreign minister Carl Bildt tweets: https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/523885512478978048?lang=sv

[Tonci87 163]

nice ship :)

[Brisse 78]

RIA Novosti: "Submarine Sought by Sweden Could Belong to Dutch Navy: Russian Defense Source"

http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20141020/194324411/Submarine-Sought-by-Sweden-Could-Belong-to-Dutch-Navy-Russian.html

---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 ----------

HMS Stockholm was quickly joined by HMS Munter and a helicopter circling the area. Now there's also a Strb90 and one G-boat joining up. They seem to be focusing on a very small area now.

Edit: They are probably blocking off a possible escape route that leads to open sea.

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------

Dutch ambassador denies that the foreign submarine is of Dutch origin.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Brisse

[papanowel 120]

I hope we will know what and to whom the thing belongs to.

[mistyronin 1181]

I hope we will know what and to whom the thing belongs to.

It seems that the crew of the submarine may be in an island nearby. ( according to the Svenska Dagbladet ). So...

RIA Novosti: "Submarine Sought by Sweden Could Belong to Dutch Navy: Russian Defense Source"

The Russian Defense lies more than says the truth, and seems unlikely that a Dutch submarine crew would speak Russian... but we will see what happen.

Edited October 20, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

You think they had to abandon the thing and are now hiding on an island? Can´t be, they are just diving tourists who forgot to ask for visa.

[mistyronin 1181]

You think they had to abandon the thing and are now hiding on an island? Can´t be, they are just diving tourists who forgot to ask for visa.

You know, you can buy a Russian submarine in a surplus store... There's now an offer pack with some T72...

- - -

The Stridbåt 90 checkin the island ( the battle boat/ship 90 )

Edited October 20, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Brisse 78]

Soldiers and surface patrol vessels are covering the coastline and islands in case anyone tries to get ashore. If there is a mini-sub, then marine Spetznas might try to get ashore, especially if their sub is damaged. It is a knows fact that Russia has agents inside Sweden, and Russian special forces might try to escape the country with the help of such agents. Swedish armed forces have to make sure that does not happen, and that the special forces (if present) are captured.

---------- Post added at 11:51 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------

The Swedish armed forces just ordered all civillian vessels to keep a distance of at least 6Nm to the operation. This could be preperation to use depth charges. It could also be that they just need a more quiet underwater environment to make it easier to use sonar.

---------- Post added at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

SCF Novoship released a stetement where they say NS Concord is waiting for cargo, and will go to Primorsk to load in a few days and then deliver the cargo in USA.

http://www.novoship.ru/npage.aspx?did=116849

Personally I find this statement very unbeliveble. The usual procedure when waiting for cargo is that ships anchor outside the port where they are going to take cargo. NS Concord have been going in circles (using their main engine, consuming a lot of bunker oil) for many days now, and this is something that costs the company hundreds of thousands USD's. That's not how you run a business.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Brisse

[Tonci87 163]

Personally I find this statement very unbeliveble. The usual procedure when waiting for cargo is that ships anchor outside the port where they are going to take cargo. NS Concord have been going in circles (using their main engine, consuming a lot of bunker oil) for many days now, and this is something that costs the company hundreds of thousands USD's. That's not how you run a business.

Only somebody who knows nothing about ships would believe that statement.

The standard way to do things is indeed to anchor outside of thze port an wait there. Circling out on the open sea burns a lot of fuel wich every commercial company will avoid.

[Brisse 78]

Also, if they are going to take cargo in Primorsk, why did they leave the Gulf of Finland, and go to the Baltic Sea just outside Stockholm instead? This official statement is really funny :)

---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

A no-fly-zone is now being established in the Stockholm archipelago area according to Expressen.

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------

Map of the recently created no-fly-zone:

http://i59.tinypic.com/15zoxo3.jpg (253 kB)

[mistyronin 1181]

A big problem is that as far as I know Sweden doesn't have anti-submarine helicopters anymore.

[Brisse 78]

That is correct MistyRonin. We had the Hkp4 during 80's and 90's and 2000's but they were recently sold to another country. The ships involved are heavily armed though, and are perfectly capable to take down any kind of submarine on their own. The main disadvantage of not having the Hkp4 is that it is difficult to make a suprise attack. A submarine can hear a ship closing in on them, but they can't hear a helicopter. The search is also slightly more complicated. The Hkp4 could use dip-sonar and could change positions fast.

They were supposed to be replaced by NH90 but they will not be ASW capable until 2016.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Estonia is taking action in the wake of recent events: http://balticbusinessnews.com/article/2014/10/20/police-and-border-guard-service-on-alert-near-saaremaa-and-hiiumaa

[JdB 151]

The Dutch navy has plenty of ASW platforms in the area ... but Sweden is not in NATO so rendering assistance is probably complicated on the political level.

[mistyronin 1181]

The Dutch navy has plenty of ASW platforms in the area ... but Sweden is not in NATO so rendering assistance is probably complicated on the political level.

Well, Sweden is in stronger partnership with NATO, and has even sent support troops in some NATO missions.

But I think it's more a self-confidence thing. To solve problems by themselves.

[JdB 151]

Well, Sweden is in stronger partnership with NATO, and has even sent support troops in some NATO missions.

But I think it's more a self-confidence thing. To solve problems by themselves.

True, but being closely alligned with NATO or being in NATO are two vastly different things, especially with parliament that isn't going to be jumping for joy at another possible confrontation with the Russians.

[mistyronin 1181]

Nevermind...

Edited October 20, 2014 by MistyRonin
wrong info

[Tonci87 163]

Here is a video of the sub recorded by a family:

( Svenska Dagbladet, in Swedish ) A family filmed a submarine in the archipelago last weekend

Does that look like a russian sub?

[Brisse 78]

That is not the submarine they are searching for. The submarine in MistyRonin's link is owned by a Swedish civillian. It has nothing do do with this operation.

[mistyronin 1181]

That is not the submarine they are searching for. The submarine in MistyRonin's link is owned by a Swedish civillian. It has nothing do do with this operation.

Yup, I first fast read the headline and posted the link, then I read through the article and saw that the people at SvD used a misleading title :P

[surpher 1]

Sub hunt map

[Brisse 78]

Yup, I first fast read the headline and posted the link, then I read through the article and saw that the people at SvD used a misleading title :P

All the major Swedish newpapers use very misleading titles all the time. Don't assume anything until you read the article. :)

---------- Post added at 16:38 ---------- Previous post was at 15:43 ----------

Oh the irony! The last helicopters in our country that are ASW capable are standing in a museum. The rest as I said earlier are sold and will serve another country for many years ahead.

Not only would we have great use for them right now, but they would have also helped greatly during the big forest fire earlier this year.

Here's a short clip of the Hkp 4 standing in a museum.

http://www.dn.se/webb-tv/klipp/nyheter/har-star-helikoptrarna/

---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------

Journalists were able to find the exact location where the picture of the suspected submarine was taken. What's interesting is that the location is not the same as the Swedish armed forces said during yesterdays press conference. Swedish armed forces press officer was confronted with this information recently, and they sort of admits the "mistake".

To me this just sounds like the Swedish armed forces are using "maskirovka" against the opponents :)

Edit: The press says the misinformation was deliberate.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Brisse