Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL/Daesh) Discussion

[Rydygier 1304]

To make this clear: IMO removing IS from the planet by force is required not as a solution for terrorism problem, it's barely a first step toward that goal, which, IMO, can't be solved by military measures alone nor even mainly. Removing IS is required to stop them killing people here and now. To save human life threatened directly by their barbarism. I said that before in another thread. IS is like a mad bandit with a gun shooting random people on the street. You can't remove banditism by neutralizing this bandit, but also you don't achieve this, if you not make him stop. But in the first place he simply need to be stopped ASAP to save the people on the street. If you're at home, you may think, you better stay there, it's not your business, and the bandit will not come here. Let's wait for the police (if more will die in the meantime - so what, sorry). But he may come, if not now, then maybe later, maybe stronger and even more mad, and even if not - damn, people are dying on the street, how one could do nothing about in such case? Of course, it's a risk, it's about becoming willingly the target. So I can understand paralyzing fear or the fear about own family, which could make the choice not so clear, but cold calculation? "Not my business" thinking? Terrible menatlity. 

[vilas 474]

we should be removing jihad step by step - but than question remains - how it comes to our "democracy" values - if those people want middle ages and we say about killing them but they want such life 

look at nonsense of EU:

http://niezalezna.pl/73062-chca-wyrzucic-polske-i-inne-kraje-z-schengen-kuriozalny-pomysl-eurokratow

they have idea to throw away Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Greece from Shengen ,

so ... we have no islamic terrorists - EU wants to punish us  because we do not take islamic terrorists

tell me Siege-A where is logic ?

1 ) EU force to take jihadists (take all migrants not checking them , some percent are jihadists)

2) EU want to punish those who do not take jihadists

3) EU want to disarm population totally (change weapons law)

4) EU cry to fight ISIS because ISIS hit Paris

do you see logic ?

cause i do not see logic 

 

EU behave following:

- lets take more radicals

- lets feed radicals and give them money instead of our own taxpayers

- lets punish those who do not want radicals 

- lets take away arms from citizens,

- when radicals do bad things lets cry

- when radical will hit major western city lets bomb few radicals out there (so maybe more will come and we will have new reasons to cry)

 

there is old Polish joke:

tourist walks in mountains, see stupid farmer which sits and using saw cuts branch of tree on which he sits 

tourist shouts to farmer "man , you will fall down if you cut that branch"

farmer says "f you" and sawing branch of tree

farmer falls and say "claivoriant or what" 

---

http://niezalezna.pl/73074-na-meczu-w-hanowerze-mialo-wybuchnac-kilka-bomb-bild-powoluje-sie-na-raport-sluzb

they  planned another bombing in Hannover - Germany

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/france-only-30-muslims-show-up-for-rally-against-paris-jihad-attacks

only 30 muslims on anti-terror march 

http://img.wiocha.pl/images/d/1/d1ae6c6e00af825c666871a69d22bb77.jpg

FB removed post of Syrian refugee - Christian woman who quoted Quoran and who asked "do you belive in facts or in taquiya"

http://img.wiocha.pl/images/f/1/f16b44fe885e8d6bc6b0450491a1b3db.jpg?s=1447932311

muslims left classroom in Italy when teacher said to memorize victims

is this how you want to fight ISIS ? by allowing it and let it grow? 

do you want to fight with ISIS by telling about tolerance to those who do not have any tolerance for us ? 

you want to punish, penalize lack of tollerance to those who dream to behead us on our land for our tax money ? 

and while Europeans will be giving blood, Middle Eastern young fit males will be here picking up our women, playing on iphones, living from benefits when you fight for their freedom , is it right ?

 

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,141202,title,Mariusz-Staniszewski-polski-rzad-nie-musi-dbac-o-Niemcow,wid,17979992,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=115f85

some more about "solidarity" and how EU funds given to Poland  go to German companies 

lies of Shultz : http://www.zelaznalogika.net/solidarny-jak-martin-schulz/

Schultz says that EU support Poland in case  of Ukraine and more NATO bases ? lol, it is Germany that voted against during NATO meetings and Schultz says it was EU that wanted to make NATO base in PL ? lol,

Schultz lives in alternative

 

it is all not as easy as you thought, whole EU solidarity is "very complicated" and many times this call for unity is when "few big rich need something"

 

popular blogger "mainstream media say about Belgian and Frenchmen"

http://kontrowersje.net/belgijski_terrorysta_i_polski_ob_z_koncentracyjny_w_zjednoczonej_europie

-----------

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/bosnia-muslim-murders-two-soldiers

another small attack - 2 people dead, 1 injured , muslim living in Europe 

[Siege-A 4054]

As I said once already, I fully agree with you in terms of the mass migration issues. It is a problem and it needs to be handled better than what they have been doing, allowing refugees that have no documentation to simply come in and call it their new home, is unacceptable. Here in the US, Obama is trying to bring as many as he can in, even without proper security checks or measures in place....which further proves my idea that he is trying to destroy this country before his term ends. So, in respect to your argument, I'm on your side here...there are bigger problems at hand than only taking on ISIL. Hell, there are 30+ state governors here that have rejected the proposition to allow syrian refugees into their states, but the problem is...how much power do they have over the president? But, with that said, I still feel we have to take the fight to ISIL as soon as possible, or they will continue flooding into our countries without slowing down. And not just a handful of countries should be committed to this fight, instead it should be a coalition force more powerful than the world has ever seen. If we all fight together, then we all bear the same burden together, and stand at the same risk as eachother. And once ISIL feels the pressure of the world bearing down on them, they will be unable to operate as freely as they have been. Airstrikes are great for destroying their infrastructure and safe havens, but isn't a means of eliminating them. Whereas a powerful coalition ground force would run them out of their hiding places, and force them to stay on the move...making it easier to track/locate them. If it is a ground war they are wanting, I think that is exactly what we should give them. Blood will be spilled, lives will be lost, and cities will be destroyed, but that is war, and freedom is just one of those things that has to be fought for.

 

And once again, I really can't comment on the situation or politics in the EU, as my opinions could be far off from the truth of what is happening there. But I can say I understand your anger and frustration that comes with the things you mentioned. It isn't an easy situation, and the solution isn't any easier. But something must be done, we can't just sit by and wait until the trouble comes our way. Who decides to stand up and join this fight, will yet to be seen, but I don't believe joining this fight should be an obligation for anyone, but rather an opportunity to rid some filth from this world that doesn't have the right to breathe the same air we do. Hands-On training can be very beneficial to anyone involved, as it prepares you for all the terrors that these madmen are capable of, as well as knowledge on how to stop it. But I feel it is a very wrong idea to believe that you are safe as long as you don't try to attack them. These men are primal and barbaric, they will use ANY measures possible to create waves across the world, even if this means striking areas that have little to do with the opposition against them, as long as they get results and spread more fear. Finally, to answer your question, no I don't see the logic in many of those topics you posted, and I don't know what to say other than...sometimes we have to put aside our differences, political standings, or beliefs in order to do some greater good. That's not to say what is going on in the EU is right, but more or less, it still doesn't stop the fact that ISIL is spreading like a virus across the globe, and the longer we wait or for those that wish to do nothing for whatever reason, the more powerful they will become and the more their influence will be established. Oh, and I didn't say anything about allowing ISIS to grow, on the contrary, I'm the one saying we need to stop it before it grows any larger. I also don't see this as a cry from rich companies/organizations to get the world to help them while they profit from it, and while there probably are some hidden agendas in the whole mess of it, the idea of containing ISIL will benefit everyone across the globe, not just the ones hoping to make money. And as rydygier said, this doesn't just mean military action, but that will be the first step.

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's a complex matter.

Of course, IS must be destroyed, but all other terrorist organisations based on Salafism, Wahabism or Muslim Brothers ideology must be destroyed too. The problem is that those organisations are sponsored by US and EU allies, some of them being in NATO : i mean Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey.

They are doing nothing against IS, and even being part of the so called coalition, they just pretend doing something, trying to be the less efficient possible. IS would suffer extremely if Turkey closes its border with IS, but Erdogan is a Muslim Brother, so...he prefers striking the Kurds, who are the only ones really efficient against IS in Syria.

The other main problem in the Irak/Syria mess in the lack of future for the Sunnis. The Iraqi governement is largely dominated by the Shias and sponsored by Iran, same as Assad governement. So i'm afraid Sunnis don't see any other way outside of the islamist terrorist movements, mainly IS for Irak and Al Nusra for Syria.

[vilas 474]

i thought you are from one of EU countries ;)

 

But I feel it is a very wrong idea to believe that you are safe as long as you don't try to attack them. T

maybe i was not clear - cause ENG is not my native language plus " i told dozen times months ago on this forum"

but repeating for you (as you may  not remember what "i said 10 times year ago")

no we are not safe, but we (EU ) should solve problem in whole, not in part

what EU propose now is part of problem solving hoping that cancer will stop

if you have cancer in 3 fingers - you cut 3 fingers or hand

they propose to cut 1 finger and wait for 2 another fingers - for sake of tollerance

 

 

Hands-On training can be very beneficial to anyone involved, as it prepares you for all the terrors that these madmen are capable of, as well as knowledge on how to stop it.

try get weapon in EU country ;)

 

 

'm the one saying we need to stop it before it grows any larger. I also don't see this as a cry from rich companies/organizations to get the world to help them while they profit from it, and while there probably are some hidden agendas in the whole mess of it,

 

exactly - big corporations produce and sell weapons, they wait for war to sell products, than building companies wait to rebuild country, than bank waits to give credit for it

thats why people suffer,

thats why "dictators" are removed to start war and start... demand (saying in economical meaning of word "demand" )

and they know that those societies are blinded by local leaders (kings, immams etc) and they sell them hightech, and when those Arabs are not in middle age theocracy but "evil dictator" try to make modern secular devloping country so local Arab nation lives okay, than ... they remove such "evil dictator" cause otherwise middle age Arabs would start to be independent and rise (but leaving religion)

for those people future it would be the best to have their kings and immams removed, than wait 2 generations till they will resign from religious brainwash, than they would be secular modern societies and very rich (oil)

but ... but.. it is not profit of those corporations who want to sell weapons, rebuild destructed buildings, give credit on repair, sell food for soldiers who fight ,

 

 

Airstrikes are great for destroying their infrastructure and safe havens, but isn't a means of eliminating them

 

we cannot eliminate jihadists if we hit ISIS only

it is like i said - cutting one finger with cancer while rest fingers have cancer and it can infect whole hand, than arm, than shoulder and then ... whole organizm dies

we discuss here cutting one finger - nonsense

and cost of cutting this one finger is our lives while other fingers are rotting and we ... we keep them here

first we must clean our home from fifth column that may be saboteur

we cannot fight ISIS before not removing jihadists extremists from EU, because first day of strike we have terror acts more and more

first is to remove jihadists here - so than we are sure that we can act abroad - and our streets will not see saboteur action

jihadists here are like special ops behind enemy line

when they have signal that we are moving to strike - they do saboteur action

you are in Arma comunity , you know OFP ?

remember mission on Nogova ?

saboteur has to use laser designator to destroy bridge so Soviet tanks cannot be transported to other part of Nogova

we are doing you know what?

we discuss about sending tank on other side of Nogova and WE KNOW (left side denies it) this sabouteur waits there with laser designator and we say what ?

that eliminating him is racism and xenophobia

nice,

those tanks will be destructed once they are on bridge

and our police will have huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge amount of job or...

conspiracy theory - someone wants police state and HE KNOWS IT EXACTLY

 

what would you do :

- you have to transport tanks to other part of island via bridge

- you know there is saboteur awaiting

 

will you give order to tanks to move through that bridge ?

i would not, i would not send for sure death those tank crew, i would first tell snipers to look for anyone on hill (if you not know this OFP mission)

i would say - first find and eliminate this saboteur , i would send sniper team to locate him,

when i am sure he is not active i can send tanks through only bridge

;)

and we talk here about finding saboteur too

western EU tells "send tanks"

than they will cry and say "solidarity, now your tanks have to go through this bridge and you must participate in rebuilding this bridge " but if you say "there is saboteur with laser designator and A10 with guided bombs in the air" they say "you are idiot, racist" ;)

according to some stats 20-40 % muslims here in Eu suuport ISIS, jihad, harsh sharia etc

minority but huge,

and we have milions of muslims in EU, so what that 60 or 70 or 80 % are moderate, so what , if you have over milion or maybe 2 milions of ready to kill , die, etc. first day of such operation

 

 

Of course, IS must be destroyed, but all other terrorist organisations based on Salafism, Wahabism or Muslim Brothers ideology must be destroyed too. The problem is that those organisations are sponsored by US and EU allies, some of them being in NATO : i mean Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey.

They are doing nothing against IS, and even being part of the so called coalition, they just pretend doing something, trying to be the less efficient possible. IS would suffer extremely if Turkey closes its border with IS, but Erdogan is a Muslim Brother, so...he prefers striking the Kurds, who are the only ones really efficient against IS in Syria.

 

 

exactly true

[Siege-A 4054]

The problem is that those organisations are sponsored by US and EU allies, some of them being in NATO : i mean Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey.

They are doing nothing against IS, and even being part of the so called coalition, they just pretend doing something, trying to be the less efficient possible.

 

Agreed. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I also have a feeling that the US falls in line with the 'less-efficient' crowd. The air campaign they launched in Syria against IS was a joke, and Russia proved after only a week of their own campaign, that the US was doing very little to actually affect the situation there (almost like they weren't really trying). But, I feel this also falls in line with the US having a determination to get Assad, rather than attack the real threat. Just my opinion though, so please don't judge me too harshly for saying so.

 

Vilas, point well taken. I'm from the US, that's why it's hard for me to comment on the situation in the EU, as there is probably alot more going on there than I'm aware of. And I don't mean to sound like Mr. Know-it-all, because I know when to admit I'm wrong, and in this particular scenario, I guess there really is more going on behind the scenes than I realized. Don't worry about the English, I can understand you just fine.  ;)  And you are correct, OFP-veteran here, so I am familiar with the mission you mentioned (even though my memory can be a bit hazy).

 

The main point I feel I was trying to stress, is that regardless what the focus is for eliminating this threat, the world should stand together on this, not divided. This threat is plaguing us all, not just a select few. But then again, with corruption and hidden agendas comes distrust and unwillingness to cooperate. So, I could see where some will refuse to act due to certain circumstances that they don't agree with. I understand where you are coming from though, and while its easy for someone like me (who isn't fully up-to-date on the situation there) to say 'come join us in our fight', I can understand why it is more difficult than that. Thanks for giving me more of an inside perspective, because here in the US, the media doesn't like to fill us in on all those 'dark' details. What concerns me, is even if you hold off on fighting them now, in order to remove the ones that are already in your society, then much time is spent in this area. Which means more time for them to prepare, advance, and further spread out. How can we remove them from our society if when we remove one, another comes in to replace them? It seems like a never ending process, all the while they continue to fortify themselves and recruit more members. That is where I feel that we should still strike them as soon as possible, and we can't be afraid of possible attacks by them within our borders, it is for our government/military/police/whatever to prevent and protect us from these attacks (I know, I know...not very reassuring). But if we live in fear that they will strike us at home, then nothing will be accomplished. Once efficient measures are taken against them in THEIR home (their safe haven), it will reduce their ability to move their men into our borders, which will make it easier to remove the ones that are already here. Anyhow, that's all just speculation from my end, it seems this matter is much more complicated than I had originally imagined. Because even if you remove the ones that are already here, there are still people (even our own native citizens) that are willing to convert to their cause, which makes matters even more complicated.

[vilas 474]

 

 

How can we remove them from our society if when we remove one, another comes in to replace them? It seems like a never ending process, all the while they continue to fortify themselves and recruit more members. 

 

and there is main joke, 

governments do it for 1 reason it seems - to build police states, limit freedoms etc. 

they need mess on streets, they need violence and terror acts and they do all not stop reason

some reasons is corporations abusing third world, some reasons are governments and weapons or oil industry abusing third world, 

some reasons are internal like "the more bandits on streets, the more law for police" (compare sentences height in still "freedom" America and Eu with all limitations, the more bandits , the more excuse to less freedom)

other reasons is marxist and communist philosophy here 

 

 

 

But if we live in fear that they will strike us at home, then nothing will be accomplished. 

we live in other fear - we live in fear to react to not be "racist" , we (Eastern EU members opposite to Western EU members) live in "nonsense feel" of such campaign cause we believe that fighting one thug from few is useless , we hit one thug and give benefit to other thug ? nonsense of fight, we fight ISIS there bombing those countries and areas but on our streets we have "Behead those who insult Prophet" protests and all is okay and we give them benefits and they have 5 kids and say "in next generation we will out vote you" and all is okay ?

nothing is okay, it is not fear, it is anger here in Eastern Europe vs Western (which "needs" our soldiers but when it comes to economy they hurt us whenever there is profit to achieve)

 

 

Because even if you remove the ones that are already here, there are still people (even our own native citizens) that are willing to convert to their cause,

if i remove ones that are here - i can be sure i can operate abroad and i have peace on my street without need to have twice more police and twice more budget spending on internal security, 

native converts, second generation imigrants - they are most jihadic idiots , i know, guys who commited terror acts are not only migrants, but second generation migrants or born here migrants or converts 

what we can do ?

we could outlaw jihad, we could make legal regulations that such ideology is equal nazism (real nazism, not this what leftists call nazism, but this real which is for Hitler, Himmler) such as we should outlav Marxism, Stalinism 

but this won't happen 

[dontknowhow 33]

But then again, with corruption and hidden agendas comes distrust and unwillingness to cooperate.

I wish. The simple truth is that everyone and their mom are shitting in their pants. This well orchestrated campaign with these fantastic beheadings videos is having quite an effect, together with the experience in Afghanistan and Iraq. No one dares to push.

 

The result, without considering China, is that 50000 psychopaths are keeping the greatest world powers at bay.

Sad but true.

[vilas 474]

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/italy-muslim-pupils-refuse-to-observe-minute-of-silence-for-paris-victims

how can we say about fight ISIS abroad when those are tolerated here

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/switzerland-islamic-state-cell-operating-out-of-mosque

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/belgium-muslim-gang-beats-russian-journalists-looking-for-jihadis-relatives

http://ndie.pl/zostal-brutalnie-pobity-bo-przeszedl-z-islamu-na-chrzescijanstwo-uratowali-go-polacy/

 

till Europeans won't change attitude towards islam, till noone can solve problem, 

cause ISIS is not problem, they are just one finger , problem is islam itself which in too much percent have radicals , radical muslims are not 0.1% are not 1% are not 2% but in different stats , polls etc. are 20, 30, 40 % (dailymail published polls when 40% UK muslim students supported sharia law) 

how many muslims are in France ? few milions already, 

how many protested against ISIS ? 

30 people : http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/11/france-only-30-muslims-show-up-for-rally-against-paris-jihad-attacksfor those 30 we could have place in Europe, 

we cannot say about winning with IS while we allow this all here to happen and change our future or future of our kids , 

saying that only 50 000 psychopats are keeping world is not exact, 

psychopaths are 1% in every society, which means that in France for 66 milions you have 660 thousands of pshyopats 

in Poland 360 000 (1% of every society is mentally ill , psychopatic etc.)

apart from them there are people with other mental ilness - religion hardcore 

 

what is reaction of EU ? 

http://ndie.pl/zolnierze-cwiczyli-na-wypadek-niezadowolenia-z-wzbogacajacych-kulturowo-uchodzcow/

http://niezalezna.pl/73108-wojsko-pacyfikuje-polakow-i-broni-uchodzcow-taki-scenariusz-cwiczono-za-poprzedniej-ekipy

there was miltary excersize with following scenario "local population protest vs asylum camp because of robberies commited by migrants" and scenario is to defend asylum vs NATIVES who protest against robberies, rapes, shop stealing and pickpocketing !!!!

this is total insanity that happened in my country (Bucierz military base) , they trained in EU operative forces at 16th Nov, army betraying NATION which is their boss (taxpayer), army that in oath says "i serve Poland", 

can you imagine in USA following army training scenario:

"migrants come and rob stores, locals protest, army to defend robbers" ?

in EU such scenarios of trainng are happening for real !!!

our army trained this few days ago (before new government taken position) , they trained scenario to defend shop robbers !!!!!

instead of train to eliminate robbers, they train how to stop  people who defend their property, a shame for my country by still yet not dimissed old pro-Brussel puppets in army (yesterday new ministers dismissed some services heads), 

this is madness Siege-A , this is madness , army training to stop locals who do not want robbers living from benefits ? this is fucking mad, this should be opposite, army should train to eliminate robbers , not victims of robbery , army should train near the mosques and if there would be serial crimes (like wave of robberies) they should eliminate those who steal property - one of most holy things - PROPERTY (this is what differs EU from USA , in US you can kill to defend your property, in EU more and more and more law changes so you cannot) 

thanx god conservatists won election and they will remove those generals who made such training , it is betrial of state for sake of EU political correctness what they trained, 

so Siege-A, discussion about attack on ISIS is also "philosophical" discussion about nonsense of EU and politcal correctness  cause problem is wider than just group of those jihadists 

problem is if we can fight those who try to destroy our live, future, lifestyle, tradition, property , wealth for which we work hard etc. 

ISIS is not something separated from islam , ISIS is part of islam , who organized and participated in Sharia patrols that beaten Brits for not living according to sharia in London ?

arab migrant and ... native convert and all was supported by immam who lives from benefits and do not work but says that benefits are jazyia tax and he is free, he has benefits, he has 4 or 5 kids and marxism is not treated like outlaw ideology (although communism should be treated as nazism) people who were in COMMUNIST parties of Spain or etc. are in EU Commision on high ranks , what and how can we fight in such conditions except building wall around us , 

effect of it is that people who are natives are being sentenced for "hate crimes" but real hate criminals immams, jihadists are FREE and sponsored from taxes (benefits)

in USA you have it different -thats why you see it different 

i linked 2 or 3 months ago news from Sweden

their police paid compensation to people after scandal , scandal was - police was refusing job application from White males due to left wing government politics , in other university of Sweden there was idea to not allow White to get on legal course, 

but least question remains - do we have right to change other civilisation in their area (question is other civilisation can change my place of birth is beyond rhetoric cause i am conservative and i am against changing our lifestyle on our soil), 

btw. Siege-A , EU works on limiting weapons in civilian hands - including already given permissions - to revert them and confiscate single shot rifles with magazines etc. 

--

 

google translate yourself:

http://www.defence24.pl/272961,przestepcza-korporacja-struktury-i-finansowanie-kalifatu

military portal analysys - "IS financing IS as criminal corporation "

[negah 26]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/151119203924350.html

 

 

Kuwait says it busted international ISIL support cell

Interior ministry says cell was led by Lebanese man who raised funds and provided logistical support for the group.

Kuwaiti security authorities have busted an international cell that was sending air defence systems and funds to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) group, the interior ministry said.

The cell's chief, a Lebanese man who was not named, confessed that he raised funds and provided logistical support for the group, which carried out deadly attacks in Lebanon and France last week, the ministry said on Thursday.

He acted as coordinator for ISIL in Kuwait and arranged arms deals and FN6 portable air defence systems from Ukraine, which were shipped to ISIL in Syria through Turkey.

The ministry did not provide details about the size of the arms deals.

[spooky lynx 73]

Kuwait disrupts extremist cell supporting the Islamic State

 

 

The official Kuwait News Agency said police arrested a Lebanese citizen described as the ringleader named Osama Khayat, who admitted to helping IS recruit fighters and raise money that was sent to IS-related bank accounts in Turkey. The Interior Ministry said Khayat also admitted to closing weapons deals in Ukraine and using Turkey as a route to send weapons to IS fighters in Syria, where the group controls territory.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, Turkey is now the well known rear base of ISIL/ISIS : most of the bank accounts of IS people are in Turkey, because there ain't any banking system in the IS controlled area anymore. The frontier is wide open to the trade with IS controlled part of Syria.

[spooky lynx 73]

Yeah, Turkey is now the well known rear base of ISIL/ISIS

Seems like Ukraine joined the list of such rear bases.

[ProfTournesol 956]

(NYT) Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

 

 

 

Daesh has a mother: the invasion of Iraq. But it also has a father: Saudi Arabia and its religious-industrial complex. Until that point is understood, battles may be won, but the war will be lost. Jihadists will be killed, only to be reborn again in future generations and raised on the same books.

[dontknowhow 33]

(NYT) Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

great, so now we know the Saudis suck. That was totally unexpected. If Kamel Daoud could also explain how to solve the energy problems it would be nice.

[oxmox 73]

UN Resolution - Islamic State

UN Security Council calls for "all necessary measures" against IS (Die Welt, Nov. 21 - google transl.)

Members vote unanimously for French resolution

 

 

The UN Security Council has unanimously adopted a resolution calling on all States to take "all necessary measures" to fight the  Islamic State (IS) in Iraq and Syria. Here, the "international law, in particular the UN Charter" should be complied with, according to the text put forward by France, which was adopted one week after the bloody attacks in Paris.

 

--> The resolution does not obtain the legal permission to take military action against the IS-militia.

      However, it backs up political support for the fight against the Islamic State who had claimed responsibility for the attacks with 130 dead in Paris.

 

 

Russia has introduced its own resolution: calling to fight the IS-militia with the approval of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad.

The United States, France and Britain rejected the draft because they refuse cooperation with Assad.

They accuse him to feed extremism by suppressing the population.

 

 

France and Russia both fly since the end of September airstrikes against the jihadists in Syria. While Paris relies on the right of self-defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter, Moscow followed a request by Assad for assistance. Before western countries accused Russia to try to prop up Assad attacking even moderate rebels and less combat the extremists.

 

 

The Security Council described the IS-militia in the resolution as a "global and unprecedented threat to peace and international security" and reaffirms the determination of Member States to combat this danger "by all means".

 

The adoption of the resolution took place a few hours after Islamist bombers stormed a luxury hotel in the Malian capital Bamako and 27 people killed, including several foreigners.

 

Die Welt

[ProfTournesol 956]

great, so now we know the Saudis suck. That was totally unexpected. If Kamel Daoud could also explain how to solve the energy problems it would be nice.

Real Politik or München spirit ? SA needs to sell its oil as much as we need to buy it. Now that Iran is back on track, there is plenty of oil to buy, we only need to choose with whom we want to deal.

[dontknowhow 33]

Real Politik or München spirit ? SA needs to sell its oil as much as we need to buy it. Now that Iran is back on track, there is plenty of oil to buy, we only need to choose with whom we want to deal.

Realpolitik. Even with the Iranians what we have to choose is between assholes and even bigger assholes. Relying only on the ayatollahs doesn't look like a wise idea to me.

I really think that the Saudis are not leaving any time soon.

 

That's the problem with oil and gas: you always end up with assholes. Just get rid of it, we have to do that anyway. I really can't understand why there is so little attention for alternative energy.

[vilas 474]

 

 

I really can't understand why there is so little attention for alternative energy.

 

elites of this world need wars , maybe some theocracies have in their pocket some of our elites 

[dontknowhow 33]

elites of this world need wars

watch out, I believe you are agreeing with Marx :)

No, that's not true. Try to follow the markets when there is a war, and you'll see.

 

What is true is that some people need to make money with oil. But that's a long story.

[vilas 474]

elites are owners of corporations , not few voted puppets on strings 

[dontknowhow 33]

elites are owners of corporations , not few voted puppets on strings 

that's what I thought, which is the reason why I mentioned markets.

Corporations are not happy when there is a war. Wars are risk; not good for investments, not good for trade.

[vilas 474]

wars are not risk :

- selling arms, army supply (food, uniforms, vehicles)

- rebuilding destructed infrastructure 

- need to buy new vehicles after destruction,

- changing regimes (quote from Bush) 

- credits to this rebuilding, 

war = need to rebuild all = credits in banks to fix destroyed property 

[dontknowhow 33]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/03/investing/war-syria-stocks-oil/

 

Not as bad as I thought, but the first sentence is clear: it's not that it's welcome

 

obviously people selling arms are happy, but I wouldn't say they are major players

 

EDIT: really going off topic. Better stop

[sudayev 27]

Looks like Vladimir Putin is growing big in the eyes of the west and viewed as good partner now - that is what leaders of France, USA and EU officials have said. "Solving the Syrian problem won't be possible without Russia, we must think of Russia, we must not isolate Russia"... What a sudden change of rhetorics from - "cynical, perfidious man and great divider" to a needed partner now.

Since Putin is doing much more in Syria than "western coalition" he is probably expecting to be re-invited to the table again, back in G8 perhaps, doing good business with the old EU.

 

I see a winner. Foothold in Syria, Crimea and Donbass within Russian borders, at the table again and seen as vital and reliable partner. Putin is an excellent player, who knows how to do politics and when to play role of a good guy when needed. President Putin likes to present himself as a righteous man doing the hardest job and he means it, in two weeks his forces done more that any other country in three years.

 

Like Charles de Gaulle once said - There are no friends only interests. Men can have friends, statesmen cannot". It is obvious everyone has an interest in Syria. Naive is to think only about fighting against "the evil", those big politicians don't care about a one or two thousand people dead, it's all in the price, while he mass migration to Europe is seen as an opportunity to "enrich" ossifying and aging European population. The major problem now is how deal with side effects - undercover network of terrorism in Europe, but it's also a good occasion to enforce more strict laws and anti-freedom regulation. Only the big players will benefit from this chessboard, others (if any) will be left with empty hands and patted on shoulder by Uncle Sam (as always). 

 

It seems Russia would like to use fight against the IS as a new beginning for re-establishing trade relationship with West, but also to weaken Nato mid-east flank which remains Russia's long term goal http://www.defence24.pl/273696,rosja-wykorzysta-walke-z-is-przeciwko-nato