New update, new disaster!

[tmp95 16]

Having more realistic AI. At least AI that can defend themselves (without constant micro mgmt.). Would seem to be more of a priority than fatigue options to me. Or the implementation of a simple to use AI skills tweaking user interface (that goes into more detail than the simple and non-effective skill bar).

[roshnak 41]

Having more realistic AI. At least AI that can defend themselves (without constant micro mgmt.). Would seem to be more of a priority than fatigue options to me. Or the implementation of a simple to use AI skills tweaking user interface (that goes into more detail than the simple and non-effective skill bar).

It may very well seem like a priority to you, but it probably doesn't seem like that to the people who only play PvP and never use AI.

What I am saying is that there are other people out there with different perspectives. Yours isn't automatically the right one.

[novemberist 2]

Anyways, nr. 1 priority right now should be fixing all the desync / battleeye / lag / fps issues people are having right now. it's almost impossible to play Arma 3 on multiplayer lately due to constant horrible desyncs and people getting kicked off the server by battleeye. overall performance, i'm afraid, will never really improve...but at least make it work the way it used to, please...

[twisted 127]

It makes the infantry combat feel much more real and interesting, and it forces players to manage their load carefully, as well as keeping tabs on their speed/distance of movement. It is a great enhancement to the game. It just takes learning. All it does is make it so that those who have practiced or have more skill will have an edge over those who have not.

It also is good for the more tactical players, those who utilize logistics, plan their approaches and try something other than run right up to the enemy and shoot.

[the_demongod 31]

It also is good for the more tactical players, those who utilize logistics, plan their approaches and try something other than run right up to the enemy and shoot.

Exactly. It prevents players from "ramboing" their way to the enemy, and instead makes them stop and plot out their plan. It's really quite a great system.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Arma is not a run-of-the-mill style shooter and it would appear people are not realising this. Fatigue and load management are now a very very important part of the game and I personally LOVE these new changes. Honestly unless people are literally trying to sprint everywhere then fatigue levels aren't even that much of an issue.

Just take a few moments (as in literally seconds) to rest up before you launch your attack; heck if you're carrying a rucksack/backpack full of ammo feel free to leave it somewhere before launching your assault and regather it later when it's safe.

[kbbw123 115]

I always laugh when I come online and I see post like these....

For starters this game was NEVER intended to be like CoD or BF where you can run 5 laps around the map and still do a no scope headshot on 2 klicks....

so for that reason the fatigue and inertia is perfect.

If you can't stand the fatigue just like tons of people try to explain here (even BiS posted about it on the wiki ^^) you can disale it on your missions...

But!

the fatigue system actually learns you how to make proper tactical decisions.

by example if you have to go 10 km and you don't have a vehicle/air taxi aviable learn to not just run all the time (wanna see you run that long with 40 - 80 KG on you)

but take a simple course like run 2 KM walk 1 KM. before you go and try to attack like Rambo try to sit down hidden for the enemys for a minute or so. and look into it if your gear is right for larger distance traveling..... the standard BiS loadout is actually desined to be perfect for loads of walking and small firefights. otherwise they could have given you 15 mags, 10 satchels ect.

so... there is really nothing to complain about ya know......

either learn to live with it or disable it for your missions

[froggyluv 2130]

Agreed with these two fellas ^^^

It's a tac player's dream come true. Hopefully some gamers who currently don't like will give it a chance and realize how fun this type of planning can be.

" Pinned down by an APC. Already a little out of breath but this cover won't hold! Need to sprint to that wall -but can I make it?!"

" Need those 2 large satchels to blow up my objectives but the sheer weight will slow me down and force a slow, stealthy approach. Or should i just load them up in my car but risk getting heard or spotted..?"

Really the possibilities are endless but this new, thinking man's approach is certainly welcomed.

[dav 22]

while the op may prefer call of duty style gameplay he is entitled to say it on the forums surely?

[geks 11]

I don't think I need to saw much more suffice to say I cant hit anything anymore and do you really expect me to slow walk everywhere? Today I was playing singleplayer and had to drop my vest, helmet , glasses, binos, compass, watch, weapon laser and grenades in order to be able to keep up with the friendle AI who dont experience stamina. Not to mention that enemy AI in the game can still shoot just as accurately at range while running everywhere. This is appaling and totally unrealistic. If I run for 100 metres I am unable to hit anything from about 50 metres away. This is unacceptable. All you have to do is take it back. I don't even need an apology or explanation, just delete the update and I'll be happy. You can even lie and say you have "tweaked" the system and I'll accept it. I loved this game and have played 450 hours but I find it a torturous experience now and a chore.

[the_demongod 31]

I don't think I need to saw much more suffice to say I cant hit anything anymore and do you really expect me to slow walk everywhere? Today I was playing singleplayer and had to drop my vest, helmet , glasses, binos, compass, watch, weapon laser and grenades in order to be able to keep up with the friendle AI who dont experience stamina. Not to mention that enemy AI in the game can still shoot just as accurately at range while running everywhere. This is appaling and totally unrealistic. If I run for 100 metres I am unable to hit anything from about 50 metres away. This is unacceptable. All you have to do is take it back. I don't even need an apology or explanation, just delete the update and I'll be happy. You can even lie and say you have "tweaked" the system and I'll accept it. I loved this game and have played 450 hours but I find it a torturous experience now and a chore.

Nobody is going to "delete" the update. It's here to stay permanently. And they most certainly did tweak the system, they significantly reduced both the fatigue and weapon sway (both by 20% I believe).

I hope when you say "run" 100 meters, you mean you jogged. Sprinting 100 meters with all the gear a soldier carries takes a massive amount of energy.

You just need to practice. The new weapon sway isn't even that bad. It's not going anywhere, so you might as well practice and get used to it.

But you are not getting an apology, you're not getting an explanation. The update is here to stay permanently, and it is one of the best updates we've had in Arma 3 so far.

[tmp95 16]

Does fatigue and weapons sway effect ENEMY AI (yes or no) I keep reading both?? Does it effect/affect your BluFor teammates (I believe yes in terms of weapons accuracy as they seemingly at times can't hit anything).

[the_demongod 31]

No, I don't believe it does. And even if it does, it doesn't enough so my answer is no.

This is my only gripe with the new fatigue system, AI must be changed so that they too experience the effects of fatigue and weapon inertia.

[icebreakr 3132]

You're telling me that AI doesn't have fatigue simulation when running and then shooting? That is cheating!

[tmp95 16]

No, I don't believe it does. And even if it does, it doesn't enough so my answer is no.

This is my only gripe with the new fatigue system, AI must be changed so that they too experience the effects of fatigue and weapon inertia.

BIS -- Please clarify - Outright silly if this is the case.

[-Coulum- 35]

As far as I know:

• Wounds temporarily effect ai aiming error.
  
• Movement temporarily effects ai aiming error.
  
• Sway and wound effect ai weapon sway but the ai are perhaps (well definitely) to good at compensating for it.
  
• Fatigue effects ai animation speed just as it does a player.
  

So basically some basic steps have been taken, but the results definitely aren't where they should be.

And be forewarned this just the feeling I got from the dev's posts and some testing, but it could very well be a load of BS. BI please correct me if I misinterpreted anything you said.

However I do believe (as well as hope) the devs are working on a better way of making fatigue really effect the ai aiming like it does a player.

[Greenfist 1863]

I can confirm those effects according to my tests (a month or so ago in the dev branch). They are just so minuscule that they don't really affect gameplay.

My guess is that all the effects are countered by the way the aiming error works: Every first shot the AI takes has a chance of error, the size of it depends on the mentioned negative effects. The second shot has less deviation from the target than the first, and the third even less, and so on.

So even an AI with wounded arms, totally exhausted and standing up, will shoot with pinpoint accuracy after 3-5 shots (at a reasonable distance). And given their high rate of fire, the time you can stay exposed without getting hit will only expand with a second or two, compared to that of a healthy AI.

Player's sway doesn't just go away like that in 3 seconds, every shot will be affected by it.

And the fatigue effects on AI's moving speed are the same as player's. They just don't know how to regulate their stamina; stopping, lowering their weapon etc.

I hope BI will make the AI lower the gun when there's no enemies around. Such a small change would give them 20-30% more stamina.

[kbbw123 115]

1 thing is for sure ofcoarse the AI cheats i mean they ave aimbot xD

they can do the CoD 360 no scope headshot with a PO7 on 2 klicks distance

[Greenfist 1863]

1 thing is for sure ofcoarse the AI cheats i mean they ave aimbot xD

they can do the CoD 360 no scope headshot with a PO7 on 2 klicks distance

People keep saying that, but I just don't see it.

Of course the AI spots you much easier, hiding under dense foliage hundreds of meters away, which is usually impossible for a human with naked eye. But when they start shooting, they seem just as accurate as players.

So I don't think they have a aimbot, more like a wallhack. :)

[chortles 263]

Unfortunately there's been no mention for about a month now about anything related to AI fatigue or accuracy, although on the 1st of August an initial iteration was thrown -- thing is, according to the dev klamacz, "aiming error is not increased by fatigue or damage itself (wounds already increases it, movement and rotation as well), but it slows down the recovery of the error, making AI less accurate for longer time than if it would be rested/healthy."

No idea how true still is, but the most recent entries in the AI-specific dev branch changelog address AI pathfinding instead of these (an entry from the 6th of August was about seeming-damage-tanking-that-was-actually-hits-not-being-detected).

[kbbw123 115]

People keep saying that, but I just don't see it.

Of course the AI spots you much easier, hiding under dense foliage hundreds of meters away, which is usually impossible for a human with naked eye. But when they start shooting, they seem just as accurate as players.

So I don't think they have a aimbot, more like a wallhack. :)

Thats of how they are set to with the standard settings. if you make a custom one and put everything with shooting to ace they will do the 360 no scope headshot with a PO7 on 2 klicks ;)

[tmp95 16]

It seems like BIS is implementing so many different changes and ideas without first having a set dependable AI base to begin with. Make that one in which is easily tweakable / adjustable by the customer / player. A simple aiming accuracy adjuster (while still being able to keep AI thinking high) would make the most sense to me. Get this down, then start going into weapons sway, fatigue, etc. It just seems A3 is all over the place with no set base game yet. I don't play A3 nearly as much as I did A2. It is just off with enemy and Blufor AI attributes (with no simple way to tweak to ones own liking).

[StarMox 10]

I must also say I enjoyed many good hours in ARMA 2 and 3 but lately something is off in ARMA 3. This can especially be noticed when playing SP (lets say official BI campaign missions/showcases for standard comparison). Don't know if it is the new fatigue/sway system combined with AI but gameplay is not feeling "smooth" as before.

...hard to explain... Do you have the same observations?

(Sometimes you feel like you are fighting the game rather than the game content?)

[chortles 263]

@ StarMox: I would definitely suggest that The East Wind and the showcases were not designed with fatigue in mind, much less designed around fatigue, and presumably the contrast of current sentiments about TEW versus the previous consensus being "perfectly playable" is due to this; I am not so sure re: Bootcamp.

[StarMox 10]

@Chortles: So you basically suggest BI (intentionally or not) broke the ARMA 3 flagship SP Survive-Adapt-Win campaign. I dont think so. Something is definitely off here.