Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)

[twisted 128]

Yeah pretty much. A carbine will be quick and easy to align (and more importantly, to properly position/grip/support) than an LMG. And ideally, using a scope with magnification would further increase the time to align as well. Though I think that having the different inertia based on scopes is problematic, because the inertia is based on the scope itself, and not the sight you are actually using (primary vs. secondary back up sights).

Yes same here. Hell even sway could look more natural with inertia effects (Front sight leads the sway while back sight kind of slowly drifts behind). It would lessen that feeling that the gun isn't properly nested on your shoulder and make it look more like it is pivoting around your shoulder, rather than the stock sliding up and down your shoulder (like it does when you are severely fatigued). I don't see it as necessary, sway is fine enough as is, but the inertia effects just make everything seem more 3 dimensional. Which is why it would be good for recoil, to get rid of the "straight up" 2d recoil we have now, as well as bringing up the sights to the eye.

I do believe that BI said that as of right now they are not going to do anything to recoil, but come the marksman DLC they might touch on it to finish off the weapon handling mechanics. We can hope.

I think bis have opened a can of worms that could just really improve weapon handling potential, hope they take it far.

I really hope they take a good long look at recoil handling and make similar improvements.

Edited August 29, 2014 by twisted

[roshnak 41]

I do not know why seeing this kind of videos dont that say that sway and inertia are very high

The idea of ​​a combat simulator to practice is not only tactics but the focus is the fight and right now the aim is losing his point.

No one is saying that there is an insignificant amount of inertia or sway. What people are saying is that they don't have a problem with it.

This isn't a combat simulator or a training simulator. It's just a video game, even if it is more realism focused than many others.

[tranquillity 10]

I do not know why seeing this kind of videos dont that say that sway and inertia are very high

The idea of ​​a combat simulator to practice is not only tactics but the focus is the fight and right now the aim is losing his point.

what is the problem there for you? just practise for 5 minutes to aim at one of the solar panel posts, so when the gun sways left you correct right, and when it is swaying right you correct left. You will be able to do that very quickly.

This is no problem, because it is the same for everyone. So when you took the time to understand how it works (5-10 minutes) you could play very nicely with it, andyou would not have to type here all the time that you do not like it just because you do not like it.

Also, I can't see the inertia being a problem in that video. Am I missing something?

[gibonez 18]

I do not know why seeing this kind of videos dont that say that sway and inertia are very high

The idea of ​​a combat simulator to practice is not only tactics but the focus is the fight and right now the aim is losing his point.

No there sway is substancial but the thing is I am and so are many others absolutely fine with it being this way, even if it is exaggerated which it really isnt.

Why you may ask ?

Because Arma 3 is a simulator and in order to be authentic one of the few ways they can make aiming difficult enough so that your in game character has roughly the same abilities as a regular human when it comes to shooting and marksmanship is to have hard sway.

[froggyluv 2135]

what is the problem there for you? just practise for 5 minutes to aim at one of the solar panel posts, so when the gun sways left you correct right, and when it is swaying right you correct left. You will be able to do that very quickly.

This is no problem, because it is the same for everyone. So when you took the time to understand how it works (5-10 minutes) you could play very nicely with it, andyou would not have to type here all the time that you do not like it just because you do not like it.

Also, I can't see the inertia being a problem in that video. Am I missing something?

So much this. Would people prefer the gun stay fixated on 1 pixel at all times?! Seriously where is the fun in that - thats just mouse wars.

[chortles 263]

I do not know why seeing this kind of videos dont that say that sway and inertia are very high

Have you lost confidence in your ability to reliably hit man-sized targets at center-of-mass with single shots or bursts within 100 to 200 meters? Because that's what I'm basing my 'inertia' judgments on.

[djotacon 190]

"Have you lost confidene in your ability to reliably hit man-sized targets at center-of-mass with single shots or bursts within 100 to 200 meters? Because that's what I'm basing my 'inertia' judgments on. "

Really? do you see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZBv3uOWBk&list=UUuSpISkMgB74UHoCp2EaW6A

or this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXIuLaQN7U0&list=UUuSpISkMgB74UHoCp2EaW6A

This a complete mess, there's no aim right now in the game.

"your ability to reliably"... hability do you expect with this sway? shoot birds?

I'm not gonna enter to a flamebait. To me all this changes needs a severe tweak to improve the combat and the gameplay. This is my opinion.

[roshnak 41]

"Have you lost confidene in your ability to reliably hit man-sized targets at center-of-mass with single shots or bursts within 100 to 200 meters? Because that's what I'm basing my 'inertia' judgments on. "

Really? do you see this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ZBv3uOWBk&list=UUuSpISkMgB74UHoCp2EaW6A

or this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXIuLaQN7U0&list=UUuSpISkMgB74UHoCp2EaW6A

This a complete mess, there's no aim right now in the game.

"your ability to reliably"... hability do you expect with this sway? shoot birds?

I'm not gonna enter to a flamebait. To me all this changes needs a severe tweak to improve the combat and the gameplay. This is my opinion.

It looks like you aren't even trying to adapt to the new system in those videos.

You're also not supposed to fire machine guns in bursts that long in the game or in real life.

Edit: Actually, I'm not even sure what your point is with the first video. The biggest problem I'm seeing is that you aren't even trying to compensate for the recoil that has been in Arma 3 from the very beginning.

E2: Here is a video of me not having a problem with the sway or fatigue. Please note that I have double the fatigue level that you do in your video.

Edited August 29, 2014 by roshnak

[djotacon 190]

"It looks like you aren't even trying to adapt to the new system in those videos. "

It's so exaggerated recoil and deviation that you know that not say.

The following wil be that l do not know the game, I'm blind, one-eyed and one-armed and deaf...XD

"You're also not supposed to fire machine guns in bursts that long in the game or in real life."

min 1.24 the nice of an MG in afghanistan...:)

[roshnak 41]

"It looks like you aren't even trying to adapt to the new system in those videos. "

It's so exaggerated recoil and deviation that you know that not say.

The following wil be that l do not know the game, I'm blind, one-eyed and one-armed and deaf...XD

If you're going to keep insisting that the new sway and inertia are unmanageable while people post video evidence of themselves not having a problem with it, then eventually someone is going to assume the problem has to be with you.

min 1.24 the nice of an MG in afghanistan...:)

That guy is firing 8-10 round bursts. You are firing 30 round bursts.

[gibonez 18]

"It looks like you aren't even trying to adapt to the new system in those videos. "

It's so exaggerated recoil and deviation that you know that not say.

The following wil be that l do not know the game, I'm blind, one-eyed and one-armed and deaf...XD

"You're also not supposed to fire machine guns in bursts that long in the game or in real life."

min 1.24 the nice of an MG in afghanistan...:)

It really isn't that bad. It looks like you are missing on purpose.

[maturin 12]

It's surely a sign of the game's progression that most of the complaints can now be rebutted by the simple maxim:

Learn 2 Play

The weapon handling in ArmA has ALWAYS been too easy, resulting in lightning-fast firefights and excessive accuracy that destroyed the viability of real fire-and-maneuver tactics or suppression. I support the realism of outcomes, not chasing after the minutiae of gunplay that no mouse and keyboard can simulate anyhow. If you want your personal ideal amount of sway, go play paintball.

[Bouben 3]

It's surely a sign of the game's progression that most of the complaints can now be rebutted by the simple maxim:

Learn 2 Play

The weapon handling in ArmA has ALWAYS been too easy, resulting in lightning-fast firefights and excessive accuracy that destroyed the viability of real fire-and-maneuver tactics or suppression. I support the realism of outcomes, not chasing after the minutiae of gunplay that no mouse and keyboard can simulate anyhow. If you want your personal ideal amount of sway, go play paintball.

While I definitely agree with you on this one, there is always a space for improvements. I like where the game is going now but it could definitely use some tweaking.

[chortles 263]

It looks like you aren't even trying to adapt to the new system in those videos.

You're also not supposed to fire machine guns in bursts that long in the game or in real life.

Edit: Actually, I'm not even sure what your point is with the first video. The biggest problem I'm seeing is that you aren't even trying to compensate for the recoil that has been in Arma 3 from the very beginning.

That guy is firing 8-10 round bursts. You are firing 30 round bursts.

It really isn't that bad. It looks like you are missing on purpose.

I was thinking all of these when I saw the videos, plus I saw that the guy started at slightly above center of mass/off to the left of the target (shooter's POV) and I noticed that the first video was using one of the very optics which is supposed to be more affected than the collimator up top.

[mamasan8 11]

If you're going to keep insisting that the new sway and inertia are unmanageable while people post video evidence of themselves not having a problem with it, then eventually someone is going to assume the problem has to be with you.

That guy is firing 8-10 round bursts. You are firing 30 round bursts.

Look at 1:50. Standing up, long burst. Do you see him aiming towards the sky at the end?

[twisted 128]

Look at 1:50. Standing up, long burst. Do you see him aiming towards the sky at the end?

nice. buts thats a controlled burst and i do see him having to work to maintian his aim on the target. doing so with your mouse is even easier.

Edited August 29, 2014 by twisted

[roshnak 41]

Look at 1:50. Standing up, long burst. Do you see him aiming towards the sky at the end?

Kind of like this?

[CaptainObvious 95]

It makes me wonder why would someone record a video while spraying all over the place on purpose and then insisting it's the game mechanics that are borked, like what the hell? :confused:

I don't mean to sound rude, but if your ability to adapt or even try to learn the new system is at that level, then Arma surely isn't a game for you.

Kind of like this?

IMPOSSIBLE! Stop it!

[froggyluv 2135]

Kind of like this?

Burn.

It's amazing how slight corrections with the mouse can have that effect. Remarkable even.

[13islucky 10]

Kind of like this?

Nerf OP.

But seriously, it seems like your (djotacon in this case) sensitivity is making the problem bigger than it is. Perhaps lowering it might help?

[chortles 263]

Kind of like this?

Can we get such a video using the ARCO, both with the magnified optic and its collimator, the latter for comparison against the dedicated standalone collimator in this video?

[roshnak 41]

Can we get such a video using the ARCO, both with the magnified optic and its collimator, the latter for comparison against the dedicated standalone collimator in this video?

Here you go:

Is something supposed to be wrong with the ARCO?

[Greenfist 1863]

And in the end of that real life video, he isn't really trying to hit anything. It's suppressive fire, spraying someone hiding 300m away. I mean, look how out of control his gun is; he isn't going to hit anything beyond 50m like that. And if there was a target at 50m, he wouldn't stay in so exposed stance.

And yeah, roshnak's videos seem very accurate depiction of the current state.

[tranquillity 10]

Thank you guys for reinforcing this point. I don't really want to accuse Djotacon of trolling, but at least he is very loud in voicing his opinion throughout this thread, and the only argument he brings is that he thinks it is too much, and that he can't hit anything. Then he posts a video where he shoots everywhere but on the target, and I get the impression it is on purpose. He behaves the same in the Fatigue Thread.

The weapon handling and Fatigue are essential, and a very good direction that the devs chose to go, in my opinion. There is no reason to dumb down this game and to approximate to a call of duty/battlefield style gunplay. Obviously a lot of others also think that way too. It's just that the ones that are happy with things enjoy them, while the few that are unable to adapt rather crie out aloud on forums.

I hope development decisions are not made just on base of the example of djotacon, who says he doesn't like it just because he doesn't.

[Bouben 3]

Roshnak, thanks for those videos. That should prevent another exaggerating, lazy players from spreading misinformation.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Bouben