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Tyl3r99

I get the impression arma is not for people without scripting knowledge

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It has just come to me that if you do not have any scripting knowledge what so ever you have very limited features available to them in the game...

people who DO have the knowledge of scripting have access to a variety of features in the editor etc which the others do not.

I struggle to find this very fair at all, I think the people who do not have the knowledge have every right to enjoy the same things as those with the scripting knowledge.

[i AM NOT CRITICIZING ANYONE SAYING THEY HAVE NO SKILLS ETC]

The game needs to become less script demanding.

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You can get alot more out of the editor with some basic scripting skills. But I still think there is alot available for people without. Especially if they use mods like Alive. I am sure a vast amount of the less fanatic players don't even touch the editor. What are some examples where people without scripting knowledge loose out big? And how would it be possible to get rid of the need for scripting?

You certainly don't need any scripting knowledge to play the game. But perhaps I am ignorant of just how limited you are without them.

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@Tyler - your post sounds more like general frustration at not getting a script or certain scripts to work than a perceived unfairness in having a script language to write in.

What is it that you're trying to do?

If you post problems up in the mission editing forum, people can either help you or direct you to threads that might have the information already.

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You're certainly right: Without scripting knowledge, you're very much dependant on people who have this kind of knowledge.

On the other hand that's exactly where I started: Absolutely no knowledge of scripting whatsoever. But with a little bit of spare time and motivation I managed to get some ideas of the problems I wanted to solve and by that I found ways to do so. That way I managed to get at least a little bit of knowledge. But that's a long lasting process of trial-and-error and what-does-that-command-do. I don't think it's something to do with fairness. You don't get the power to wield the tools the Arma editors give you without investing quite some time. If you want that, you have to invest time and brain lard.

Another possibility would be to get in contact with others and work with others. If someone in my clan has a great mission idea, but no idea on how to realise it, we all come together and figure out a way to create a mission with that idea. There's always someone who 'once read a tutorial' or who has some knowledge. If you throw that on a pile and use it, you can achieve great things.

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It has just come to me that if you do not have any scripting knowledge what so ever you have very limited features available to them in the game...

people who DO have the knowledge of scripting have access to a variety of features in the editor etc which the others do not.

I struggle to find this very fair at all, I think the people who do not have the knowledge have every right to enjoy the same things as those with the scripting knowledge.

[i AM NOT CRITICIZING ANYONE SAYING THEY HAVE NO SKILLS ETC]

The game needs to become less script demanding.

cliffs of your post: make the modules better

my response:

Use the resources available to you.

There are plenty of people with adequate scripting capabilities ... employ the community to do what you can't.

In many cases you can lego together a reasonable mission using already-available community content.

And no, IMO you do not have every right to an equal outcome

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on the other hand, i came to arma with dayz mod release on a2, had absolutely no knowledge of scripting and a load more things, being in the arma community is like being enlisted in the "college of knowledge", you will learn even without knowing it,just be patient and ask politely someone will know all the answers

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Yeah that's probably the best thing you can do.

Start out with making your own loadout scripts from scratch.

Watch a few ArmaIdiot videos on youtube for editor tutorials. Google the shit out of all your questions. If you can't find an answer on the forums or on the wiki, ask the question yourself. There are oodles of people who will be willing to help you.

I came to Arma 3 having absolutely no knowledge of scripting in arma or elsewhere, and within ~6 months of furious mission making, I was quite proficient in basic scripting. You just have to keep at it, learn as you go, and eventually you'll get there.

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page is your friend for all arma scripting.

All classnames can be found in the config editor, or find them here: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Assets

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what fustrates me is that it takes lines and lines and lines of code just to change a units loadout.

things like that.

and why cant the mission details like photo and all the stuff you would put in a description.ext in the intel page?

everything just seems like you need to script/code something all the time.

modules help millions they really do :) but I think there could be more of them.

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:22 ----------

Yeah that's probably the best thing you can do.

Start out with making your own loadout scripts from scratch.

Watch a few ArmaIdiot videos on youtube for editor tutorials. Google the shit out of all your questions. If you can't find an answer on the forums or on the wiki, ask the question yourself. There are oodles of people who will be willing to help you.

I came to Arma 3 having absolutely no knowledge of scripting in arma or elsewhere, and within ~6 months of furious mission making, I was quite proficient in basic scripting. You just have to keep at it, learn as you go, and eventually you'll get there.

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page is your friend for all arma scripting.

All classnames can be found in the config editor, or find them here: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Assets

i can make a mission yeah takes me a while but i can do it, but want to look into more of the advanced fancy stuff but ive tried so hard but i cannot get my head around it. ive got he community to help but its still confusing the **** out of me lol

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:23 ----------

things like i dont get the SQM, SQF all that malarky... ive only got used to the description file

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SQM, as I understand it, is the old way to type scripts, OFP-style. SQF is the standard now. And SQF is very similar to C++ with it's syntax.

Generally, theres quite a few scripts out there. Check armaholic, these forums, google it etc.

If you want to change something within a script, you'll just have to dig into it.

Yes, scripts can be extremely powerful compared to what you can do with the editor.

And you bring a valid point about the editor. It would be much better (from a usability angle) if we could just browse to the picture/music we want to use in our mission intro or whatever instead of having to script every little thing like pictures, music, tasks, loadout. List goes on.

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You should try to lower your expectations and start marking simple goals, besides that there is a lot of people in this forums willing to help.

Programming / coding is nothing more than give simple orders to a really stupid machine. Think like if you were telling a 3 year old how to do stuff.

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I start my ARMA during OFP times. During that time, I don't know anything about scripting. I do everything in the editor. Not even the init line. I use waypoints and synchronize and triggers most of the time. Then I learn how to change default loadouts ([removeAllWeapons this] is my first script command). Only in ARMA 2 I started sqf scripting. And some sort of 'high level' scripting.

So my point is, enjoy the flexibility in the editor. Make some nice AI battle and play as a spectator. To be honest that is how I mostly play ARMA. pretend it to be a strategy game, put some soldiers here and there, and try to attack it with this amount of troops, go there, capture here... Its really like playing toy soldiers when I was a kid. In time, you'll get the hang of scripting...

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I spend a majority of my time in Arma 3 either screwing off in the editor, or screwing off playing what I'd just made in the editor. And I definitely can't claim to have scripted anything. Currently at 1250 hours.

My impression is that the Arma 3 community is specifically built around scripting noobs. Just about anything you want has been made already, or can be made with some simple requests on the addon/script request thread. And anything involving the code can just be copy and pasted from place to place where it's needed. Want a revive script? Well fuck, just hit up Armaholic, follow it's copy and paste directions, and money. Want movable static weapons, sling loading, towing, hell, just about anything else? Still the same procedure.

Arma is specifically tailored to people without scripting knowledge.

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what fustrates me is that it takes lines and lines and lines of code just to change a units loadout.

things like that.

and why cant the mission details like photo and all the stuff you would put in a description.ext in the intel page?

everything just seems like you need to script/code something all the time.

modules help millions they really do :) but I think there could be more of them.

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:22 ----------

i can make a mission yeah takes me a while but i can do it, but want to look into more of the advanced fancy stuff but ive tried so hard but i cannot get my head around it. ive got he community to help but its still confusing the **** out of me lol

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:23 ----------

things like i dont get the SQM, SQF all that malarky... ive only got used to the description file

It can be overwhelming, particullary when you try to look at the heavier scripts. My best suggestion is starting with these following scripts.

Learn how to...

Start a separate group of troops into a helicopter

Have two conditions for one trigger

Add a few items into a cargo container

finish a objective if a unit dies.

These 4 scripts can all be done in the map editor. Their is tons of tutorials and discussions on how to do them, just search them up.

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with the new VR armory we need really a command that transforms itself into code upon saving

i.e. load armory "soldier1" will converted if the mission is saved inside the sqm as the plain code for the choosen class

or the ability to compile the saved loadouts inside the mission

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SQM, as I understand it, is the old way to type scripts, OFP-style. SQF is the standard now. And SQF is very similar to C++ with it's syntax.

SQS is the old OFP-style script format.

~5

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oh, and Notepad + + is amazing having spent 4-5 years using just notepad.

i have been using eliteness for pbo work, but does anyone know if there is a program that will let me right click a mission folder in explorer and have the option to create pbo right there and then as it would just be one of those little "ahh that was easy"

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things like i dont get the SQM, SQF all that malarky... ive only got used to the description file

Yeah I know what you mean. Especially if you don't have any previous programming experience it really seems abstract. Like silentghoust says, try just doing small things with sqf. Ask questions on the forums on how to complete relatively simply things and be prepared to look like a noob. At first you will just be copying and pasting, but if you inquire about how each code snippet works you'll slowly learn how to do certain things, and then everyonce in a while you will have a breakthrough and start to really understand how sqf works. At least thats what happened to me. For the longest time I was confused by simple things like what an array is or what a local vs. global variables are, no matter how many times I read the description on the wiki. But eventually you get the hang of it.

I am certainly no scripting genious but now I can at least use the scripting library and understand the very vague descriptions of each command. I am slow, but I can usually get what I want to happen to happen.

Good luck. I do agree that things like unit loadout and briefings should have an interface in the editor, but ultimately there is only so much you can do with that. For example lets say they made it possible to easily make tasks in the editor. But now what happens if you want tasks to appear dynamically throughout the mission based on certain events? You cant really create that can do this. Its very hard to make a interface for every possibility. In the end, scripting will always be necessary to make a dynamic mission.

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thanks for the info guys, the community is very helpful and i really appreciate who has helped me in the past!

I started playing since OFP and did everything in the editor and to this day.. I still do but I do enjoy myself with the missions I create, sometimes the smallest stone can do more damage than a bigger one.

I got hang of the objectives and simple commands like setunitpos etc but that was purely the help of the community.

I'm currently playing with the captive command as im trying to do hostage missions with joingroup commands.

anyway I also appreciate that people understand my point of view and not jump down my throat

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oh, and Notepad + + is amazing having spent 4-5 years using just notepad.

i have been using eliteness for pbo work, but does anyone know if there is a program that will let me right click a mission folder in explorer and have the option to create pbo right there and then as it would just be one of those little "ahh that was easy"

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=16369

That's what I use and it is literally right click, send to PBO.

@OP: Scripting is confusing, and being able to put basic things like a picture, author, title and subtitle in the intel panel would make sense, but ARMA III has improved compared to II when it comes to doing stuff in the editor, the inclusion of task modules and diary record modules had made things infinitely easier than when you had to mess around with briefing.html. I came to ARMA III in december with no scripting knowledge (I'd briefly dabbled in lua for DCS but given it up as too complicated), I started my first big scripting project in June (the idea literally came to me during an exam, fortunately it was an easy one :D) so only a few months later I'm actually fairly competent, nothing compared to some of the people here of course but it's a start. That's of course massively helped by everyone in the Mission Editing and Scripting section who are always great at helping.

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Lot's of things (mostly unknown by new players, such as Game logics and how they work etc.) can be done without any scripting.

BUT, i agree that the editor should have more built in functionalities and drop down menus (there are several threads indicating how the mission editor could evolve to be more user friendly).

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I agree with the op about it being very hard to do things without scripting knowledge.

More vanilla Arma3 modules are needed the most blatant ones being :-

Revive/Medical module,

Description.ext module,

JIP module,

onplayerRespawn module,

Class restriction module,

VirtualAmmobox Loadout module,

Etcetc

Having these as vanilla modules people can place in the Editor with drop down options would remove a lot of the need to script or use mods on your server when creating missions.

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I agree with the op about it being very hard to do things without scripting knowledge.

More vanilla Arma3 modules are needed the most blatant ones being :-

Revive/Medical module,

Description.ext module,

JIP module,

onplayerRespawn module,

Class restriction module,

VirtualAmmobox Loadout module,

Etcetc

Having these as vanilla modules people can place in the Editor with drop down options would remove a lot of the need to script or use mods on your server when creating missions.

Let's be honest: Most of these things have been solved by others. There's VAS, there are revive-scripts, templates for the description.ext and whatnot. If you want something like this, you can make a google- or board-search and find solutions for that which are mostly quite easy to implement into your mission. It's not like it's a hard thing to do. The only thing is: people have to do it themselves. And most people don't want to do something in order to achieve something.

Assuredly, the modules you proposed cover the functions many mission creators need for their missions. But the only reason I actually could think of why they should be permanently implemented into the vanilla game would be to prevent inexperienced mission creators from publishing bugged or not working missions on the steam workshop. And publishing a mission that lacks basic functionality is generally a bad idea.

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Dan;2755095']^that' date=' + an easy way to create unit loadouts and import them in the editor.[/quote']

well do you remember the first beta showcase? the units page had an equipment tab at the bottom... i guess they axed that good feature...

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I agree with Tyl3r99 (OP) that more should be done to reduce the need for scripting in general.

For example why can't Bis incorporate scripts into modules and just have editable parameters?

Even if it has to be compiled before playing I think it would be worth it.

I've been playing since OFP and I can't believe we still need to use scripting just to change unit loadouts.

Edited by EDcase

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